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'17 21VLX vs '13-'14 21VLX


Nitrousbird

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ahopkins22LSV

@Nitrousbird I would think in the next year or so there will be deals to be found on 2013-14 VLX's and those are very proven boats. The way I see it there are only 5 huge differences between those and a 2017 21VLX:

  1. Power Wedge II
  2. Updates dash screens
  3. G3.5 Tower
  4. Stereo upgrade in the 17's
  5. Warranty

I know you said you don't mind not having a warranty so in your case it comes down to how much you care about the top 3.

1 - The PWII is a huge improvement, but that isn't to say the original isn't still very nice can for sure still be used to tweak the wave. I would factor it in though by trying to spend some time on the water with both (same to be said for my dash comments below.)

2 - The dash is a coin flip probably depending on how much you care about electronics like that. I will say that I feel it is a huge improvement though. I frequently am at the helm of the old dash of the 13-14 year boats and the new dash. The new dash is much much easier to use because you can control your ballast, speed and wedge on one screen. Plus it looks flipping awesome, IMO.

3 - The original G3 is still a very solid tower and the only benefit of a G3.5 I see is the new locking mechanism to be able to lower it much easier. Don't know if that affects you or not.

4 - I feel the 17 stereos will satisfy 97% of buyers out there. It is ready to go from the factory and sounds great. That said, no way I would spend an addition 10-20K to get a 17 just for this reason. Obviously, a custom stereo can be added to an older boat for way less that can be personalized to your liking.

 

My 2 cents.

Edited by ahopkinsTXi
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Just now, ahopkinsTXi said:

@Nitrousbird I would think in the next year or so there will be deals to be found on 2013-14 VLX's and those are very proven boats. The way I see it there are only 5 huge differences between those and a 2017 21VLX:

  1. Power Wedge II
  2. Updates dash screens
  3. G3.5 Tower
  4. Stereo upgrade in the 17's
  5. Warranty

Huge one to me is the engine.  Not a lot of '13-'14 VLX's with anything other than the Monsoon 350.  I'd have trouble buying a 12 year+ newer boat while making a noticeable downgrade in motors over what I currently have in a smaller boat.  '14 boats with the LS3 also have the questionable Marine Power unit, though that could be a negotiating factor if one was found.  I am willing to pay more for an upgraded motor.  With the Ford motors (and upcoming GM motors), the base motor is a modern, more powerful unit I'd be okay with. 

In the end, this was less about what I will buy in the future and more about what the 21VLX really competes with in the Malibu lineup.  I see it as a boat that might drag some used buyers into the new boat market. 

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50 minutes ago, Nitrousbird said:

'14 boats with the LS3 also have the questionable Marine Power unit, though that could be a negotiating factor if one was found. 

What are the specific issues with the Marine Power engines?  Thanks in advance.  

Edited by jjackkrash
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ahopkins22LSV
1 hour ago, Nitrousbird said:

Huge one to me is the engine.  Not a lot of '13-'14 VLX's with anything other than the Monsoon 350.  I'd have trouble buying a 12 year+ newer boat while making a noticeable downgrade in motors over what I currently have in a smaller boat.  '14 boats with the LS3 also have the questionable Marine Power unit, though that could be a negotiating factor if one was found.  I am willing to pay more for an upgraded motor.  With the Ford motors (and upcoming GM motors), the base motor is a modern, more powerful unit I'd be okay with. 

In the end, this was less about what I will buy in the future and more about what the 21VLX really competes with in the Malibu lineup.  I see it as a boat that might drag some used buyers into the new boat market. 

Ah yeah forgot about that. Even though the 5.7 sbc is older in technology, it is more then capable of getter the job done in that boat. Plus it's easier to work on imo, and every auto parts store in the world carries parts for it. But it is a valid point.

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I predict the '17 21 vlx will not even be close to $79k next year.  If someone really wants this boat act fast, it's a short window at this price point.  I will be surprised if they are not completely sold out by late spring.  This is purely speculation on my part but I can't see Malibu keeping it at this price point once is starts to gain popularity.  I sat in one at my dealer and I was impressed, although a little smaller than a 22 vlx it has a lot going for it for a great price.

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6 minutes ago, Fman said:

I predict the '17 21 vlx will not even be close to $79k next year.  If someone really wants this boat act fast, it's a short window at this price point.  I will be surprised if they are not completely sold out by late spring.  This is purely speculation on my part but I can't see Malibu keeping it at this price point once is starts to gain popularity.  I sat in one at my dealer and I was impressed, although a little smaller than a 22 vlx it has a lot going for it for a great price.

Agree here.  They are already starting to allow some upgrades.  I was told when I ordered mine that you can now get flake on the accent panels and a white tower (both upgrades) The boat builder is even updated to reflect that. If you add that along with soft grip flooring, soft grip seat bases, surf Bimini, and torque prop, you are already at $85k from the factory.  

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6 hours ago, Nitrousbird said:

Huge one to me is the engine.  Not a lot of '13-'14 VLX's with anything other than the Monsoon 350.  I'd have trouble buying a 12 year+ newer boat while making a noticeable downgrade in motors over what I currently have in a smaller boat.  '14 boats with the LS3 also have the questionable Marine Power unit, though that could be a negotiating factor if one was found.  I am willing to pay more for an upgraded motor.  With the Ford motors (and upcoming GM motors), the base motor is a modern, more powerful unit I'd be ok with. 

In the end, this was less about what I will buy in the future and more about what the 21VLX really competes with in the Malibu lineup.  I see it as a boat that might drag some used buyers into the new boat market. 

So is it next year the Malibu is going to be making their own engines?  Personally I wouldn't want a boat with a Raptor in it right now.  It's going to end up being the engine Malibu used for what.......2 or 3 years?

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The Raptor seems to be getting good reviews from all makers.  I dunno, would you rather have a proven engine for past three years or a brand new engine model a boat maker decided to start producing on there own?  I can't recall one post on here with a negative comment about the Raptor engines, only better power than the comparable Indmar Chevrolet engines.

I will be a good test seeing as I had the Indmar Monsoon 409 in my 22vlx and the Raptor 410 coming in my lsv.

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Most of the points in the OP are reasons why I've purchased 2 new boats in a row after searching hard for a slightly used boat for almost 2 years.  My new one has the 6.2L raptor motor which I'm excited about but honestly had no issues with my base 350/5.7L in my last boat.

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1 hour ago, Sixer said:

So is it next year the Malibu is going to be making their own engines?  Personally I wouldn't want a boat with a Raptor in it right now.  It's going to end up being the engine Malibu used for what.......2 or 3 years?

It sounds like Malibu could start introducing them into their lineup as soon as 2019.  I would expect partial rollout in '19 and a full roll out in '20.  Either way the Raptor, and I was skeptical at first, has proven to be very reliable and a good marine engine.  I'm a GM guy by far, but I'd have no issues with having a Raptor in my boat.  Although it does bother me that EVERY manufacturer has them now.  Other than that they're a capable motor and the #1 thing to me reliability in a towboat.  

One thing dealers have been asking for specifically is a good mid-level engine option.  Buyers are forking over the extra coin for the Raptor 450.  Maybe the other new Raptor motor floating around out there solves that problem in '18 though.

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2 hours ago, tjklein said:

It sounds like Malibu could start introducing them into their lineup as soon as 2019.  I would expect partial rollout in '19 and a full roll out in '20.  Either way the Raptor, and I was skeptical at first, has proven to be very reliable and a good marine engine.  I'm a GM guy by far, but I'd have no issues with having a Raptor in my boat.  Although it does bother me that EVERY manufacturer has them now.  Other than that they're a capable motor and the #1 thing to me reliability in a towboat.  

One thing dealers have been asking for specifically is a good mid-level engine option.  Buyers are forking over the extra coin for the Raptor 450.  Maybe the other new Raptor motor floating around out there solves that problem in '18 though.

Why would it bother you every other manufacturer also has the Raptor?

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They definitely have done some improvements with the torque and the transmissions in the past couple of years, and this accommodates surfing and heavier boats.  I'll be the first to admit I'm not well versed on engines, and from the reviews on here it sounds like things have been very positive for those using the Raptor (besides the noise level - which may be debatable yet).  Yes, a lot of other brands use the Raptor as well.  To the best of my knowledge Indmar released Raptor engines in fall of 2014, and they have only been in Malibu boats for 2 years now.  I get it.........they're used by Tige, Sanger, Moomba, MB, Malibu, Supra, Gekko.......but the fact that Malibu will only have that engine for a few years would make me think twice about owning one is all I'm saying.  

Why is Malibu switching?  Is it purely because they will make more $ doing them in house?  Is there some other issue with Raptor that hasn't shown yet or is unknown to the public?  IMO Malibu is the industry LEADER in a lot of things for a reason.  So the big question is, why the switch again so soon?  Why didn't they do it two years ago?  Why now?  

How long was the "Monsoon" a GM block?  I don't know the answer to that, it's an honest question.  Looking at the Resources tab here, it appears to go back to at least 1994.  If that's the case, and they've used GM for over 20 years (yes, I know there have been upgrades and improvements in the GM's along the way), wouldn't it be reasonable to ask yourself why Malibu was so quick to switch away from the Ford Raptor?

Maybe it is just money.  I don't know.  I just think about the guys who are working on boats daily doing service.  What will they know better ten years from now......the GM block that was there for 20+ years, or the Raptor that was thrown in the mix for 3 years then changed out.

I'm not saying a 2019 boat (or whenever it is) will be the answer either, I certainly wouldn't want to be the crash test dummy for that project either.  

Edited by Sixer
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2 hours ago, Fman said:

Why would it bother you every other manufacturer also has the Raptor?

My wife and I were at the boat show and we looked at Supra and Malibu and when we walked by the Sanger boats she said "THAT boat has the same engine?"  It's not a huge deal, but it's a point.

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On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 11:05 AM, ahopkinsTXi said:

Ah yeah forgot about that. Even though the 5.7 sbc is older in technology, it is more then capable of getter the job done in that boat. Plus it's easier to work on imo, and every auto parts store in the world carries parts for it. But it is a valid point.

I 100% disagree that is easier to work on.  The GEN-III and newer SBC's use O-rings on most of their gasket connections, making it very easy to perform engine work without scraping gaskets, installing new paper ones and hoping they don't leak.  No distributor to deal with, just coil-near-plug design.  Parts are very plentiful on these motors as well.  What makes a GEN-I SBC easier to work on?

On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 10:33 AM, jjackkrash said:

What are the specific issues with the Marine Power engines?  Thanks in advance.  

Altitude and wiring issues from what I've read.  It being a 1 year, one-off engine for Malibu isn't going to help resale. 

 

On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 4:26 PM, Fman said:

The Raptor seems to be getting good reviews from all makers.  I dunno, would you rather have a proven engine for past three years or a brand new engine model a boat maker decided to start producing on there own?  I can't recall one post on here with a negative comment about the Raptor engines, only better power than the comparable Indmar Chevrolet engines.

In the end, most of the motor is made by either Ford or GM.  As for the power, Indmar GM engines were previous generation stuff.  Everyone loves comparing the Raptor stuff to the very old GEN-I SBC.  It really needs compared to the current DI motors PCM is selling that Malibu will be introducing.

 

23 hours ago, tjklein said:

It sounds like Malibu could start introducing them into their lineup as soon as 2019.  I'm a GM guy by far, but I'd have no issues with having a Raptor in my boat.  Although it does bother me that EVERY manufacturer has them now.   

Nautique runs PCM GM motors.  Mastercraft runs Illmor GM motors (2 of the big 3 running GM).  Epic runs GM Mercruiser motors.  Supreme runs PCM GM motors.  Sea Ray's new V-drive had a Mercruy Marine GM motor.  Edit: forgot about Axis, which uses Crusader GM motors.  Centurion uses PCM GM engines.  Heyday uses PCM GM motors.  I think stating "every" manufacturer uses them is not even close to accurate.  Some do, the majority don't.  Once Malibu switches back to GM (talk about a short run), the Ford engine will be all but dead in the boat market once again.  That didn't take long.

Edited by Nitrousbird
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I would think Malibu is going to marinize there own engines for financial reasons.  The Raptor is not getting poor reviews on power like the MP engine they have in 2014 did.  People I have spoken to who have had multiple engines in past boats say the Raptor 410 is more comparable to the GM LS3 in power and performance.  Hopefully Malibu does there homework, definitely glad I am not a first year order on a new engine.

Edited by Fman
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ahopkins22LSV

@Nitrousbird When I said the sbc was easier to work on I was speaking to a raptor engine not a newer gen GM engine because that is what you will get in a new Malibu until 18-19ish. I would much rather wrench on a sbc Chevy over the raptor. For one. There are 16 plugs in a raptor... but hey, if you are going to talk yourself into a newer boat and go against everything you have ever preached on this forum I don't think anyone is going to care. 

Edited by ahopkinsTXi
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13 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

@Nitrousbird When I said the sbc was easier to work on I was speaking to a raptor engine not a newer gen GM engine because that is what you will get in a new Malibu until 18-19ish. I would much rather wrench on a sbc Chevy over the raptor. For one. There are 16 plugs in a raptor... but hey, if you are going to talk yourself into a newer boat and go against everything you have ever preached on this forum I don't think anyone is going to care. 

I agree 100% on the SBC vs Raptor for working on it.  I was under the impression you were comparing the older GM to newer GM stuff.

As for talking myself into a new boat...nope.  I'll let someone else work out the bugs and take the initial depreciation hit - it's not like I want to tow 2 hours one way to the dealer for warranty work when I can just fix it myself.  This thread was more of a comparison between the two different boat hulls, more of a curious as to what justifies the price of the '13-'14 VLX.

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