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Ski wake 22VLX vs 21VLX


Mike185

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I love my 2012 VLX diamond hill for an all around boat. Wakeboards great, surfs really well and skis good enough. That's kinda the hierarchy of the sports we do too (hydrofoil at the top of my list but I could do that behind a pontoon)

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14 hours ago, JeffC said:

Thanks, just now.   This discussion is really valuable to me as I am trying to find a decent recreational slalom machine with a good surf wake.   I have been looking for a 22 VLX with a diamond hull but seems the only way to get one is to custom order it.   I liked the 20VTX a lot, but the shorter length and narrower beam make the interior smaller than I would like.   I sat in a 21 VLX at the Denver Boat Show, but again, the narrower beam put me off a little.

At least on my Crownline, I ski about 30-31 (who knows how accurate THAT is).   Reading this thread, I suspect the 22 VLX with a wake hull will be throwing a pretty good sized wake, but maybe it is time to just get over myself.   I know that over time I will be surfing more and more (I am 57 going on 22 years old, but father time will eventually catch up).

Get a Nautique GS22, looked at one at the boat show here in Houston.  It's awesome.  Out of my price range though trying not to get a loan..

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18 minutes ago, isellacuras said:

I love my 2012 VLX diamond hill for an all around boat. Wakeboards great, surfs really well and skis good enough. That's kinda the hierarchy of the sports we do too (hydrofoil at the top of my list but I could do that behind a pontoon)

Thinking this is what I'll end up with. 

Is there an easy way to tell if a boat has the diamond hull?  Most ads don't list it.

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16 minutes ago, Mike185 said:

Thinking this is what I'll end up with. 

Is there an easy way to tell if a boat has the diamond hull?  Most ads don't list it.

Do a search on this site.  There a number of threads discussing this.

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4 minutes ago, Sixer said:

If you do get a 21' VLX you should definitely try to get into a 2013 or '14 so you have the Surf Gate.

That's the plan if I can find one, or I will build my own surf gate system.

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I have skied @isellacurasVLX with diamond many times. IMHO the best length is 15' off to get outside the rooster tail if you ski at 32. Faster might be different. I am not a course skier and haven't regularly skied a DD in many years. The VLX diamond has a respectable slalom wake for a V-drive. As long as you go into thinking V-drive wakes and not DD wakes you will be happy with the VLX I think. As someone else mentioned you can cut and pull hard but you have to lay off just a bit as you hit the first wake but I don't catch air off of it like some other V-drives.

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On 01/19/2017 at 10:35 AM, Mike185 said:

Thanks, I'm leaning towards a 2011-2013 VLX.  Will try to find one with a diamond hull, was just curious if the diamond hulls are more rare than the wake hulls.

@fman were you able to slalom behind the 13' with the wake hull?

There is lots of info and videos out there on the VTX but I think a 20' boat will be too small for us, even 21' is on the small side.  My last boat was a 23' moomba XLV.

A family member is avid advanced skier who I always tow.  He could slalom behind the 2013 but it was definitely slower cuts.  I was towing him approx 32 mph. I would encourage you to look at the 2013 vlx because you will get surfgate.  He skis behind a 2008 Mastercraft x15 with attitude plate and that boat does throw a pretty nice slalom wake for a v drive.

There are going to be a lot of different opinions on what an acceptable slalom wake is.  I would encourage you to do a demo.

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One thing I will mention. I owned identical versions of the VLX years ago with one having a diamond hull and one a wake hull. If you live on a large lake the wake hull had a noticeably better rough water ride.

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IMO, getting a 22VLX with a diamond hall is a waste. It becomes "okay" at all 3 sports.  You make the slalom wake a tiny better, but do damage to surf and wakeboard wakes.  I doubt the slalom wake will be much better with a diamon.  With that said, we have a '15 22VLX and ski behind it.  We are not course skiers, but I'd say "good" skiers.  We go about 32mph with the wedge in lift mode.  For a 22' boat, it's not bad at all.  Also, the wakeboard and surf wave on the 22VLX is very good.  We went from a 2011 VTX to our current 2015 22VLX.  Wakeboard and surf waves are incredibly better and ski wake is still ski-able.

Get out to demo and see for yourself though.  A lot of people on here are wave fanatics and 99% of the population would never know a difference.  Your opinion is the only one that matters at the end of the day.

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ahopkins22LSV
6 hours ago, Suggy said:

IMO, getting a 22VLX with a diamond hall is a waste. It becomes "okay" at all 3 sports.  You make the slalom wake a tiny better, but do damage to surf and wakeboard wakes.  I doubt the slalom wake will be much better with a diamon.  With that said, we have a '15 22VLX and ski behind it.  We are not course skiers, but I'd say "good" skiers.  We go about 32mph with the wedge in lift mode.  For a 22' boat, it's not bad at all.  Also, the wakeboard and surf wave on the 22VLX is very good.  We went from a 2011 VTX to our current 2015 22VLX.  Wakeboard and surf waves are incredibly better and ski wake is still ski-able.

Get out to demo and see for yourself though.  A lot of people on here are wave fanatics and 99% of the population would never know a difference.  Your opinion is the only one that matters at the end of the day.

Do you have evidence that the diamond hull makes the surf and wakeboard wakes worse? I have always read the general consensus on here is that you can't tell the difference. I believe some dealer still only order diamond hulls too. 

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I did not demo the different hulls back to back nor am a wake/wave fanatic.  So to answer your question - no.  If you're saying you can't tell the difference, does that apply to all 3 sports? Or you heard it helps skiing but doesn't affect wakeboard and surf.  I am curious.

I have heard that the hull doesn't make a difference in surfing because of the slower speeds and what not; but I assume it has to have some effect on the wakeboard wake (how? not sure).  If it's meant to make the wake smaller/better for slalom I can't imagine how it does NOT affect/make the wakeboard wake smaller.

Edited by Suggy
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ahopkins22LSV

I haven't tested the boats back to back either. That is why I was asking, because I was curious. I am sure it effects the wave or wake with the diamond hull but I would imagine 99.9% of people can't tell even at wakeboard speeds. The differences in the hull isn't that much but from what I have heard it makes quite the difference in the slalom wake. Probably more dramatic at slalom speeds because you are going 30+mph. Even at 20-25 the hull is pretty "sank" in the water.

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Not sure if I mentioned my experience about wake vs diamond in this thread. I know I have before in the past. Anyways, I was dead set on a wake hull. I bought a new close out and the day of the demo, realized it was a diamond. I stressed out for 2 days about buying a "ski boat hull" when my primary use was going to be wakeboarding. In the end, it hasn't affected me, my riding, nor my crew mates. Wakeboard wake is more than I will ever need (I ride full MLS and no PNP wakeboarding). I have ridden a wake hull and I could not tell a difference.  Felt exactly the same to me. I will put my surf wave up against any 21' boat and my ski wake is manageable which is impressive for a 21.5' v-drive wakeboat. One thing I have heard (but not experienced) is that a wake hull can have a tendency to porpoise at ski speeds. In theory, the chines on the wake hull push the nose down by lifting the stern up. Bottom line is I stressed over nothing.

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On 1/20/2017 at 0:07 PM, Mike185 said:

Get a Nautique GS22, looked at one at the boat show here in Houston.  It's awesome.  Out of my price range though trying not to get a loan..

This is exactly where I'm at right now.  LOVE Malibu and believe they have the best looking boats on the water today.  We are upgrading from a 2000 VLX and are looking for a better multi-sport boat.  I love the size of the 22ft boat for a variety of reasons and was all set on buying a 22VLX with the diamond hull as we still enjoy some serious slalom skiing.  I'm having second thoughts as the general consensus seems to be the 22VLX with the diamond hull makes all three sports only "OK" vs doing at least two really well (surfing, wakeboarding). 

I realize this is a Malibu forum, so I hope these comments aren't takem the wrong way, but the GS22 looks intriguing.  I'm not crazy about the price premium over a 22VLX, but if the boat performs as advertised, it's an interesting alternative.  I did sit in a GS20, and my initial reaction is it was too shallow on the inside, especially the bow. Also not crazy about the bow/front end design, just doesn't look sporty or sleek.  I do love the idea of the trim plate in the back to push the bow into the water for skiing, vs taking a chance with the wedge at ski speeds.  My gut says the ideal multi-sport Malibu would be one with an adjustable trim plate in addition to the wedge with all of the existing features.

No matter the brand, it's not exactly re-assuring to think about spending ~$100K on a boat with compromises :-)

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8 hours ago, 2THEL8K said:

This is exactly where I'm at right now.  LOVE Malibu and believe they have the best looking boats on the water today.  We are upgrading from a 2000 VLX and are looking for a better multi-sport boat.  I love the size of the 22ft boat for a variety of reasons and was all set on buying a 22VLX with the diamond hull as we still enjoy some serious slalom skiing.  I'm having second thoughts as the general consensus seems to be the 22VLX with the diamond hull makes all three sports only "OK" vs doing at least two really well (surfing, wakeboarding). 

I realize this is a Malibu forum, so I hope these comments aren't takem the wrong way, but the GS22 looks intriguing.  I'm not crazy about the price premium over a 22VLX, but if the boat performs as advertised, it's an interesting alternative.  I did sit in a GS20, and my initial reaction is it was too shallow on the inside, especially the bow. Also not crazy about the bow/front end design, just doesn't look sporty or sleek.  I do love the idea of the trim plate in the back to push the bow into the water for skiing, vs taking a chance with the wedge at ski speeds.  My gut says the ideal multi-sport Malibu would be one with an adjustable trim plate in addition to the wedge with all of the existing features.

No matter the brand, it's not exactly re-assuring to think about spending ~$100K on a boat with compromises :-)

Folks who are saying the diamond hull makes it "OK" for surfing and riding are just wrong.  It's their speculation evidenced by their disclosure here they haven't tested them.  There are many dealers who order all stock boats in diamond.  I've had prolly 3 diamond v drives and 3 wake v drives.  The ONLY area where there is any noticeable difference is above 28-30 mph.  There is no adverse effect on wake speeds.  In fact, I even disagree with the poster that said the diamond doesn't ride as well in rough water.  Go back to when the 23 LSV was initially released way long ago and it ONLY came on the diamond and I still have the marketing video talking about its rough water ride because it lightens the boat.  I've had both, and, frankly, I can't say I noticed a big difference, but the diamond was certainly not worse.  The GS22 is a heavy, heavy boat.  You can't defy the laws of physics.  A trim plate is not likely to make the slalom wake better.  It may help with some size, but will likely harden the crests significantly.  See threads on slaloming with the scarpa plate.  Even people running wedge in lift have reportedly had mixed results.  I'm still a believer that with the right prop (appropriately steep), Malibu has the most versatile hulls if you're including skiing with the diamond.

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On 1/25/2017 at 1:19 AM, isellacuras said:

Not sure if I mentioned my experience about wake vs diamond in this thread. I know I have before in the past. Anyways, I was dead set on a wake hull. I bought a new close out and the day of the demo, realized it was a diamond. I stressed out for 2 days about buying a "ski boat hull" when my primary use was going to be wakeboarding. In the end, it hasn't affected me, my riding, nor my crew mates. Wakeboard wake is more than I will ever need (I ride full MLS and no PNP wakeboarding). I have ridden a wake hull and I could not tell a difference.  Felt exactly the same to me. I will put my surf wave up against any 21' boat and my ski wake is manageable which is impressive for a 21.5' v-drive wakeboat. One thing I have heard (but not experienced) is that a wake hull can have a tendency to porpoise at ski speeds. In theory, the chines on the wake hull push the nose down by lifting the stern up. Bottom line is I stressed over nothing.

IT's the opposite.  The diamond, not wake hull, pushes the nose down as the hydrodynamic lift of the strakes and chines "lift" the boat.  Every boat will porpoise if going too fast for its rear weight bias.  Usually that's in  the form of a max wedged and rear heavy VTX at wakeboard speeds.  I've never heard of any V drive with empty ballast for skiing ever porpoising.

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3 hours ago, 85 Barefoot said:

IT's the opposite.  The diamond, not wake hull, pushes the nose down as the hydrodynamic lift of the strakes and chines "lift" the boat.  Every boat will porpoise if going too fast for its rear weight bias.  Usually that's in  the form of a max wedged and rear heavy VTX at wakeboard speeds.  I've never heard of any V drive with empty ballast for skiing ever porpoising.

The 22 VLX does if you have even two normal sized people on the back seats. As far as rough water ride I live on a big lake and the first thing we noticed switching from the wake to the diamond was a much bumpier ride. This was in the 21 VLX. The wake hulls outsells the diamond about 3 to 1 or so my dealer says.

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3 hours ago, 85 Barefoot said:

IT's the opposite.  The diamond, not wake hull, pushes the nose down as the hydrodynamic lift of the strakes and chines "lift" the boat.  Every boat will porpoise if going too fast for its rear weight bias.  Usually that's in  the form of a max wedged and rear heavy VTX at wakeboard speeds.  I've never heard of any V drive with empty ballast for skiing ever porpoising.

Agreed.  My 01 SSVLX had a nasty habit of porpoising at wakeboard speeds when rear heavy.  I had to get the ballast, bags and voice-operated, just right.  For the ski wake, it was best to have a little weight in the bow and be above 30-32 mph.

I really haven't had a problem with porpoising with the VTX.

Edited by obski
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11 hours ago, 2THEL8K said:

This is exactly where I'm at right now.  LOVE Malibu and believe they have the best looking boats on the water today.  We are upgrading from a 2000 VLX and are looking for a better multi-sport boat.  I love the size of the 22ft boat for a variety of reasons and was all set on buying a 22VLX with the diamond hull as we still enjoy some serious slalom skiing.  I'm having second thoughts as the general consensus seems to be the 22VLX with the diamond hull makes all three sports only "OK" vs doing at least two really well (surfing, wakeboarding). 

I realize this is a Malibu forum, so I hope these comments aren't takem the wrong way, but the GS22 looks intriguing.  I'm not crazy about the price premium over a 22VLX, but if the boat performs as advertised, it's an interesting alternative.  I did sit in a GS20, and my initial reaction is it was too shallow on the inside, especially the bow. Also not crazy about the bow/front end design, just doesn't look sporty or sleek.  I do love the idea of the trim plate in the back to push the bow into the water for skiing, vs taking a chance with the wedge at ski speeds.  My gut says the ideal multi-sport Malibu would be one with an adjustable trim plate in addition to the wedge with all of the existing features.

No matter the brand, it's not exactly re-assuring to think about spending ~$100K on a boat with compromises :-)

Sounds like you and I are weighing the same issues.   I am a recreational slalom skier, and am old enough that I am planning on transitioning more and more to surfing as I become less willing to take on the pain of losing an edge and doing my patented double barrel roll with a half twist (dont ask me how I know about that pain).   I have a deposit down on a 22 VLX, but have been looking at the GS22 as well.   I looked pretty hard a the Malibu, Mastercraft, and Nautique boats at the Denver boat show last month.

What I think I have heard as a consensus opinion was that the 22 VLX will be skiable with a diamond (understanding nowhere near a DD), the surf wave will be awesome with the right recipe, and the trade off of the diamond hull would be a somewhat compromised wakeboard wake.   If that is true, then the 22 VLX is probably the right boat for me, as I will never be doing wild tricks on a wakeboard, I will be able to finish out my slalom days (3-5 years), and get into surfing a lot.   What wakeboarding I do will not be anything extreme, so I dont think I will miss the wake hull.

I absolutely liked the looks/fit/finish of the Malibu the best of the bunch.   I liked the 22 VLX better than the 21 VLX for the interior space (wider beam).   I was very serious about a 20 VTX as it looked like an awesome boat, but with the crew size and our usage pattern, we think it would be a little too small.   My wife was pretty sold on the interior size of the 22 VLX.

In the end, everything is a balance to me... I will be taking a pull behind the VLX soon, and that will be my final decision, but at the moment it seems to be in the sweet spot for how we will use it.

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