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Maisbiensuer

Additional Ballast for 2011 VLX

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Maisbiensuer

Hello Malibu-Lovers,

I have a 2011 Wakesetter VLX with a standard ballast of 1250lbs (4 hard tanks). I'm thinking now about two additional ballast bags next to the engine. Especially for Wakesurfing and also the new style Wakeboarding (slower speed), this seems to be a necessary thing.

I'm thinking about these bags:

https://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=988

Now, can I just put them to the outlet hoses of the existing tanks, so that the existing tanks get filled first and afterwards the additional bags? Or do I have to install a Y-piece after the pumps? Or do I have to install 2 new pumps (unfortunately just one hole in the bilge left)?

I'm sorry if I bring this up the 100st time, but I coulnd't find what I looked for by the search.

Thanks for your help in advance!

 

Kind regards,

Remo

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Deven

This link will give you lots of ideas.

 

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kerpluxal

If you want to "Piggy Back" you can Y from pump to hard tank and ballast bag... I tried the WakeMakers solution of filling bag and draining into tank, but it is not efficient at all (air locks in bottom tank)...

If you take gobble's first drawing in the link below,,, that is how the 2015 Malibu's run the PiggyBack and the option that chose to fix my problem above.. BTW... it works fantastic:

Now, I also upgraded my fill lines to 1 1/8 hoses and fill pumps to 1100gph.. This was a simple upgrade.. The pirhana 11000 pumps have .75 intake so you don't need to drill a bigger hole for the 1 1/8 intake on the Tsunami pump... I also upgraded the inlet on the hard tank to 1 1/8.

This IMHO was the simplest solution and did not need to wire in new pumps nor drill new holes... Putting the bags on a separate pump and switch would be faster for fill and drains, but I was looking for simpler install (BTW, the PiggyBack with 1100 fill pumps fills my hardtanks and my 3/4 of the way on my 1100s before the 500 center tank is full ;)

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jwl019

You mention wakesurfing and those bags you have listed are 400#'s each, you may want to look at the 750's, or Sumo 850-900# bags along with a bag in the bow.  You can surf with the stock plus the 400, but depending on your size and size of the board, it may be difficult.

 

In my 2010 VLX, last season on top of stock I was running a 750 in the rear on the surf side, 400 on the center seats and 400 in the bow both pushed over to the surf side and it made a pretty good surf wake.

This season, I will be running:

these in the 45x25x20 dimension - https://www.wakemakers.com/wakemakers-rear-lbs-ballast-bag.html

This on the center seats - https://www.wakemakers.com/straight-line-sumo-max-800-long-ballast-bag.html

This in the bow - https://www.wakemakers.com/straight-line-sumo-max-650-rear-ballast-bag.html

 

I guess I will have the 2-750's and 2-400's from last season to add if I just really want too, but doubt I will need them.

Edited by jwl019

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Maisbiensuer
22 hours ago, kerpluxal said:

If you want to "Piggy Back" you can Y from pump to hard tank and ballast bag... I tried the WakeMakers solution of filling bag and draining into tank, but it is not efficient at all (air locks in bottom tank)...

If you take gobble's first drawing in the link below,,, that is how the 2015 Malibu's run the PiggyBack and the option that chose to fix my problem above.. BTW... it works fantastic:

Now, I also upgraded my fill lines to 1 1/8 hoses and fill pumps to 1100gph.. This was a simple upgrade.. The pirhana 11000 pumps have .75 intake so you don't need to drill a bigger hole for the 1 1/8 intake on the Tsunami pump... I also upgraded the inlet on the hard tank to 1 1/8.

This IMHO was the simplest solution and did not need to wire in new pumps nor drill new holes... Putting the bags on a separate pump and switch would be faster for fill and drains, but I was looking for simpler install (BTW, the PiggyBack with 1100 fill pumps fills my hardtanks and my 3/4 of the way on my 1100s before the 500 center tank is full ;)

Thanks for your answer! I'm looking for the same thing as you, for an easy installment without additional pumps, without drilling holes etc. So I will go for what you called "PiggyBack" solution, I will put an Y after the pump and fill hard tank and additional bag with one pump. On the outlets of the hard tank and bag I will also do a Y piece to put it on one exhaust hole. There is just one issue left, but maybe you already thought about that. If I have a 250lbs hard tank and a 750lbs bag, I need to somehow make sure that 3 times the amout of water goes into the bag, otherwise there will be water pumped trough the hard tank to the exhaust hole, before the additional bag is filled. What have you done to solve this issue?

 

20 hours ago, jwl019 said:

You mention wakesurfing and those bags you have listed are 400#'s each, you may want to look at the 750's, or Sumo 850-900# bags along with a bag in the bow.  You can surf with the stock plus the 400, but depending on your size and size of the board, it may be difficult.

 

In my 2010 VLX, last season on top of stock I was running a 750 in the rear on the surf side, 400 on the center seats and 400 in the bow both pushed over to the surf side and it made a pretty good surf wake.

This season, I will be running:

these in the 45x25x20 dimension - https://www.wakemakers.com/wakemakers-rear-lbs-ballast-bag.html

This on the center seats - https://www.wakemakers.com/straight-line-sumo-max-800-long-ballast-bag.html

This in the bow - https://www.wakemakers.com/straight-line-sumo-max-650-rear-ballast-bag.html

 

I guess I will have the 2-750's and 2-400's from last season to add if I just really want too, but doubt I will need them.

Thanks for your input! The input with the bigger rear bags is very good, I will order some bigger ones then. But honestly, I won't buy a addional bow bag and also not for center seats even if its necessary for a good surf wave. My personal interest is on wakeboarding, and I really need all the space on the boat which I have left (after usinge the rear lockers for ballast). But bigger bags in the rear is a no brainer, as I anyhow waste the space with ballast.

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pedel

I completely agree that you should follow Gobble's first drawing (below).  If you do it this way, you only need one 'y' and any overflow from the hard tank gets pushed up into the bag.  I did this in my 2012 VLX and it works perfectly.  I wouldn't bother with the second 'y'.

 

Good luck!

 

2ed4e612-410a-4e1e-9a3c-72dbb32647c5.jpg

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Choiceind

Dumb question? Is that "Y" -wyw- fitting the wrong way? 

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Maisbiensuer
58 minutes ago, pedel said:

I completely agree that you should follow Gobble's first drawing (below).  If you do it this way, you only need one 'y' and any overflow from the hard tank gets pushed up into the bag.  I did this in my 2012 VLX and it works perfectly.  I wouldn't bother with the second 'y'.

 

Good luck!

 

2ed4e612-410a-4e1e-9a3c-72dbb32647c5.jpg

Great! Thank you very much! I will do it exactly in this way. But I guess I need to have an additional Y to put the vent (yellow) from the bag together with the drain line (green), as I have to use the same water outlet on the side of the boat.

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pedel

I did the wye just like in the drawing and it works perfectly.

Regarding the question on the vent, the answer is no.  The drain line stays exactly as it is in the stock set up, draining from the hard tank.  The vent (yellow) line in the stock set up vents from the top of the hard tank.  You will move that to the top of the bag.  Basically, this becomes just one integrated ballast tank that vents from the top, and drains from the bottom (with the hard tank gravity draining through both green lines into the top of the hard tank).

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kerpluxal
18 hours ago, Choiceind said:

Dumb question? Is that "Y" -wyw- fitting the wrong way? 

No, If you changed it, it would fill the tank and the bag simultaneously and causing the tank not to fill completely (when bag is filling same time as/ before tank, the vent to let the air out of tank becomes obstruct and  airlocks. The bottom tank will eventually purge the air, but this is a long process).

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kerpluxal
18 hours ago, Maisbiensuer said:

Great! Thank you very much! I will do it exactly in this way. But I guess I need to have an additional Y to put the vent (yellow) from the bag together with the drain line (green), as I have to use the same water outlet on the side of the boat.

No, you don't need an additional Y.. the vent on bag was the same vent that use to be on tank... If you need any help PM me.

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Maisbiensuer
21 hours ago, pedel said:

I did the wye just like in the drawing and it works perfectly.

Regarding the question on the vent, the answer is no.  The drain line stays exactly as it is in the stock set up, draining from the hard tank.  The vent (yellow) line in the stock set up vents from the top of the hard tank.  You will move that to the top of the bag.  Basically, this becomes just one integrated ballast tank that vents from the top, and drains from the bottom (with the hard tank gravity draining through both green lines into the top of the hard tank).

Ok, got it! Great thing, I will do it like it is in the drawing! Thanks for the support!

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Choiceind
4 hours ago, kerpluxal said:

No, If you changed it, it would fill the tank and the bag simultaneously and causing the tank not to fill completely (when bag is filling same time as/ before tank, the vent to let the air out of tank becomes obstruct and  airlocks. The bottom tank will eventually purge the air, but this is a long process).

OK. Good to know! I have entertained the 1 pump 2 bag dilemma with a ski locker bag and than up to a new bow bag. It was either a system like the drawing or just  T fitting with on/off valves so I can section off either or, depending on size of crew.

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Maisbiensuer

I just measured shortly in the rear areas next to the engine. I have space of 20" x 20" x 40" in the rear lockers (after 40" its getting slope because of the seat). But the 750lbs bags are 20" x 20" x 50". Is this a problem? Or do the bags just do not fill completely? There is also a small square ridge on each side at the back, is this an issue for the bags (in case of damage)?

Edited by Maisbiensuer

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jwl019
1 minute ago, Maisbiensuer said:

I just measured shortly in the rear areas next to the engine. I have space of 20" x 20" x 40" in the rear lockers (after 40" its getting slope because of the seat). But the 750lbs bags are 20" x 20" x 50". Is this a problem? Or do the bags just do not fill completely? There is also a small square ridge on each side at the back, is this an issue for the bags (in case of damage)?

That is not a problem, the 750's will only fill to the space they can conform to.  The small ridge in the back is the housing for the hard tank pumps.  The 750's will not hurt that either.

I also recommend getting these, even though I never had any issues with my 750's:  https://www.wakemakers.com/engine-divider-panel-saver.html

The dimensions you have are exactly like mine.  The 20" width gets wider as it goes up towards the back of the seats.  Also, as my bags fill, I pull the front of the bag up so that it conforms better to the slope of the seatback.  Sometimes it would try to fill with the bag being under the seat so I just keep an eye on it and adjust as needed.

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nschimm

I purchased a 2006 vlx this past summer and was looking to make some changes to the rear ballast. Thought about going with the piggy back system but leaning toward removing the old hard tanks.

Not trying to hijack just curious what the thoughts are?

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nlouthan

I also have a 2006 and I'm copying this system: 

I'll be using 400s in the back, 650 in the front, the four factory tanks and a Mission Delta.

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NCVride
1 hour ago, nschimm said:

I purchased a 2006 vlx this past summer and was looking to make some changes to the rear ballast. Thought about going with the piggy back system but leaning toward removing the old hard tanks.

Not trying to hijack just curious what the thoughts are?

2006 Vride here.  Yanked my hard tanks and put in 750's.  Other than extending some hoses and running your vent hoses and drain hoses to the opposite side of the boat it's pretty inexpensive and simple.  Reason for cross venting and cross draining was to prevent gravitational drain when surfing and listed, BUT thanks to suck gate I don't have to list the boat anymore so the cross vent and drain may not be necessary. 

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nschimm

NCVride

were the rear tanks above or below the floor in your boat?

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Maisbiensuer

There came one additional question up. I don't think this will be possible, but lets ask :-)

If I would install one or two additional pumps to fill up the additional 750 lbs bag directly, would it be possible to include the control of these pumps into the malibu system? I can control the 4 ballast pumps through the control panel left to the steering wheel (Malibu VLX 2010), light control and horn is at the same spot. I have some space left on this control board, would it be somehow possible to put the control of additional pumps to this control panel?

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wdr

On my '10 I still have some open un-used slots on the MUX switch for "tower lights", "heater"  and another position or 2 that I can't recall. That being said the system doesn't know what's being turned on or off it just does it job, on or off. You could probably get away with wiring "non-reversible" pumps to those switches/positions to accomplish what you want to do. Turn on the tower lights to fill the port side and shut it off as it starts to puke out the side, turn on the heater to drain it until it quits draining out the side. Kind of a convoluted "Rube Goldberg" set up but I imagine it would work. The limiting factor will be the number of available options that aren't being used to control everything and the load rating for that unused accessory. I am really not the guy to ask about electrical stuff, MLA and MA would be you resident electrical and computer types respectively on here. For me it was waaaaay easier to just buy the associated stand alone reversible pumps and bags and plumb it in myself. But I imagine getting that stuff shipped to you Switzerland is going to be crazy expensive. Here is a shot of my switch panel for the 3 pumps I have and reversibles are totally the way to go IMHO!

IMG_0244.JPG

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Maisbiensuer

Thanks for your answer!

 

I know what you mean, if I had these kind of buttons I'd would be easy.

But I have these:

http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq173/jeremyayoung/New ballast install/muxauxaddition.jpg

So I guess I'd would need to have some kind of programming. I don't think there is this option, just wanted to check for sure.

 

Stuff shipped to Switzerland wouldn't be an issue at the moment, Friend of me just bought a car in the US. So I can put stuff into the container :-). So you say I should order two additional pumps which pump in both directions and buying two of this button switches? I mean there is still the option from above with the existing pumps, but if there is the possibility to speed things up, why not :-)

Edited by Maisbiensuer

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wdr

Those are the MUX switches that I have as well. They would be the the control button(s) for the set up I previously mentioned for aerator style pumps. No programming needed, you would just have to find the terminating end of the wires for the unused/un-installed accessories. The big question is did/does Malibu prewire all of their boats for the same accessories regardless of whether they are installed or not. My guess would be yes because of cost efficiency. My experience with the Johnson reversibles has been nothing but positive. I put in aftermarket stock aerator style pumps before I sprung for the Johnsons and the aerator style are a lot slower (there may be faster aerator style pumps but I am not familiar with them). The drain pump for an aerator style pump has to be plumbed in below or level with the bag to facilitate prime/draining and I always had water left in the bag (the reversible can go anywhere and sucks the bags dry regardless of placement). The cost of 2 aerator style are probably going to cost about the same as or close to 1 reversible pump. You are also running 2 lines per system which increases the associated cost of hose. You will be drilling 2 holes potentially for the fill pumps or not drilling at all if you replace the existing "T" handle bilge drain "female" thru hull fittings with the brass "female" thru hull fittings for the sea c**** shut off ball valves. I did that for my second reversible and it was a no joke 30 minute job to put in. No drilling just a nut and hollow bolt screw type fitting with some 3M Marine adhesive to seal the deal. I would price both systems to compare. The numbers for the aerator may be cheaper, but I can assure you you will regret that decision later come installation time and during actual use. JM2C Bill.

Edited by wdr

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