Malibu to marinize own GM engines

[IXFE]

I love that the gear heads agree with me... hardware easy, software mapping not so much. Makes me feel warm and special inside. 

The one place I will poke on is the number of people mentioned for development.  I work at a BIG company so I can say this... Big companies have a way of keeping lots of people busy and finding ways to justify it (some real and some perceived). The fact of the matter is, they can afford it. Small companies have a way of getting ish done with fewer people because frankly, they can't afford it but that doesn't mean it doesn't need to get done. 

I'm speculating here, but if Malibu thinks this makes sense they are either outsourcing the mapping or doing it on a shoestring budget themselves. No way they're investing FoMoCo kind of R&D. 

[shawndoggy]

14 minutes ago, IXFE said:

I'm speculating here, but if Malibu thinks this makes sense they are either outsourcing the mapping or doing it on a shoestring budget themselves. No way they're investing FoMoCo kind of R&D. 

Maybe the guys at Malibu read that thread last year where @The Hulk knew a guy who could slap some little pullies on his LSA and retune for him.  I mean how hard can it be if @The Hulk knows a guy?

[minnmarker]

OK, my knowledge base on this subject is close to zero but wouldn't GM offer a map template of sorts to companies buying engines from them?  Is the tow boat application (mapping) that much different from a utility truck?  I can't imagine Indmar, or now Malibu, has unique cams or injectors, or that their throttle bodies or exhaust are that much different, etc.

[The Hulk]

54 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

Maybe the guys at Malibu read that thread last year where @The Hulk knew a guy who could slap some little pullies on his LSA and retune for him.  I mean how hard can it be if @The Hulk knows a guy?

Yea once they heard how easy it was they decided to ditch the LSAs awesomeness.. totally would have been fun to do kind of wish I still had it haha

Edited November 16, 2016 by The Hulk

[bamaboy]

On 11/16/2016 at 8:11 AM, 23LSVOwner said:

New School Big Small block.

Bored and stroked LS based motor. You should see how Ilmor builds it. Pretty impressive.

You beat me to it.  

 

I went to the plant in Plymouth, MI and it was awesome.  This thing is hand built on a table directly next to Ilmor's indy car motors.  

 

My last boat had one and it is like nothing else on the market.  Feels like you are sitting in the cockpit of an old school chevelle.

[23LSVOwner]

Just now, bamaboy said:

You beat me to it.  

 

I went to the plant in Plymouth, MI and it was awesome.  This thing is hand built on a table directly next to Ilmor's indy car motors.  

 

My last boat had one and it is like nothing else on the market.  Feels like you are sitting in the cockpit of an old school chevelle.

 

Did you get a chance to ride behind a boat with the preproduction 1st revision cam?

 

680 HP, cant remember the torque. Had to tone it down as the riders were complaining that it felt like it was trying to diislocate their shoulders on a WOT pull up.

[bamaboy]

Just now, 23LSVOwner said:

 

Did you get a chance to ride behind a boat with the preproduction 1st revision cam?

 

680 HP, cant remember the torque. Had to tone it down as the riders were complaining that it felt like it was trying to diislocate their shoulders on a WOT pull up.

No I did not.  LOL.  Sounds amazing though.  

 

Was that the same motor that they put in the prostar at the MC throwdown in Grand Rapids?  I know that thing topped out at like 70mph try to getting Freddy the record jump.  

 

All chromed out.  It looked sooooo SICK!

Edited November 17, 2016 by bamaboy

[23LSVOwner]

1 hour ago, bamaboy said:

No I did not.  LOL.  Sounds amazing though.  

 

Was that the same motor that they put in the prostar at the MC throwdown in Grand Rapids?  I know that thing topped out at like 70mph try to getting Freddy the record jump.  

 

All chromed out.  It looked sooooo SICK!

It wouldn't surprise me at all. That thing was a damn beast!

[Woodski]

19 hours ago, minnmarker said:

OK, my knowledge base on this subject is close to zero but wouldn't GM offer a map template of sorts to companies buying engines from them?  Is the tow boat application (mapping) that much different from a utility truck?  I can't imagine Indmar, or now Malibu, has unique cams or injectors, or that their throttle bodies or exhaust are that much different, etc.

Yes, a basic calibration or suggestion would or could come from the GM Marine group and each of the Marinizers tend to massage or create a calibration to meet their needs or the needs of the application.  Correct, most of the hard parts are standard issue or from the same pool of outside suppliers.  A propeller power curve is not quite the same as a road load power curve so the calibration (fuel/spark) is tuned for that application.

[Cory]

This is great news!  I dislike that Ford engine. #MakeMalibuGreatAgain! 

[granddaddy55]

On 11/15/2016 at 2:59 PM, DarkSide said:

When you go to the lake with the guys from the dealer.... and you leave lead and GIANT PNP bags in your boat.... 

I also tried to make the claim i use ballast instead of people, because i run a small crew... 

So here is my PSA for the day.

Your plaquard weight is ballast and people, the PNP counts against that.  So if you run 750's and a bow bag, you are overweighting your boat, even with a 3 man crew! 

I'm doomed

[granddaddy55]

On 11/14/2016 at 10:59 PM, Bill_AirJunky said:

Wonder how many Malibu owners get warranty work done by other Indmar dealerships. Doesn't effect me at all, but it could be an issue for some small number of customers.

I can't stand my dealer service, just went to another indmar cert and he did a nice quick job on my valve cover leak. He wouldn't even charge Indmar or me cause he said "it wasn't worth the 12 minutes they would have paid me to do it".  I am done with Malibu axis for service reasons snd any next boat I might buy that likely won't happen(there isn't another one even the least bit close) , I keep boats for 15 years or more and it seems like my indmar is bullet proof and extra nose weight and some listing have cut my fuel bill recently and it was never bad even at $2.70 non ethanol premium , only got to 2.59 this year but never expensive and now it's 15% minimum better could be 25% or more 

Edited November 20, 2016 by granddaddy55

[MadMan]

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 3:39 PM, minnmarker said:

OK, my knowledge base on this subject is close to zero but wouldn't GM offer a map template of sorts to companies buying engines from them?  Is the tow boat application (mapping) that much different from a utility truck?  I can't imagine Indmar, or now Malibu, has unique cams or injectors, or that their throttle bodies or exhaust are that much different, etc.

I always thought that GM did provide the all the software and calibrations in the Marine Electronic Fuel Injection (MEFI) and Indmar just used them.  Indmar (and others) didn't have to because they were already intended for marine use.

[MLBurns]

Shouldn't be a problem for Malibu, look  how big the market is for "canned" tuners for cars and trucks. I have always been a gearhead and was a mechanic for several years, tuning has always been the least of my worries. The right combination of heads/cam/intake is where many go wrong. GM already put that together for Malibu. I have a tune on every vehicle I own, even my Polaris Ranger. There wouldn't be such a big market if it was that hard to do.

[MadMan]

The main reason I would think Malibu or Indmar would not touch the tuning is warranty reasons.  If they change the GM sanctioned tune, they might become liable for some warranty claims instead of passing them on to GM.  I would think GM and Malibu have pretty much the same goals when supplying engines, mainly low warranty.  This usually isn't the goal of a guy with a stand alone tuner. 

[bamabonners]

I think its a good idea, but I don't think it will carry the same weight as Ilmor, PCM, or Indmar.  These engine companies engines have a history.  They are a selling point for the boat.  For example, that is one reason I wanted this particular prostar, it had the Ilmor (2011 had the option of Ilmor or Indmar).  On the flip side, Malibu could say something like, "our engines are tuned to be perfectly balanced for malibu boat, blah blah blah to our specs."   My concern would be like someone else stated... Malibu isn't really known for their superb QC and I sure wouldn't want one of the first year engines.

Edited November 20, 2016 by bamabonners

[DatTexasBoy]

I think it could be a good move if done correctly.

However I do like the Ford options and was not real optimistic when they first hit the market. I haven't had one problem out of mine and have put about 350hrs on them. Both performance and fuel efficiency has been more than satisfactory for me.

[Bawshogg]

I tend to believe this will not lower boat prices one bit.  It will increase profit on each boat sold most definitely. Nothing revolutionary going on with these engines marinazation wise or engine management wise. This will open up even more proprietary control over repairs, parts sales, warranty etc...... read keep you at " THE AUTHORIZED MALIBU DEALER" for all your boat related needs . 

 

Agree its it's an obvious move being publicly owned. Its all about the stock valuations in the end. 

[The Hulk]

On 11/16/2016 at 1:24 PM, 67King said:

Actually the lower RPM is where it is most advantageous.  Ramp rates, which drives the roller cams and all the associated hardware, allows a higher lift cam with lower duration and overlap, which allows better tuning, which allows better torque.  Of course, it isn't really that relevant, since GM has to make the things for the passenger cars, and it would be both expensive and ridiculous to rebuilt the LS engines down to flat tappet cams and their associated hardware.  Plus the whole marketing thing is a very big factor.  But don't forget that we keep having to deal wiht more and more EPA related regulation.  Overlap is going to hurt both emissions and fuel economy, so the older (capital amortized) stuff may not be compliant forever.

I think the best thing for Malibu to do would be to somehow work with the other guys to do the development work to keep that spread over 10,000 boats.  GM and Ford have done some work together in transmission development, maybe take a page from that.

Can't they just take the Volkswagen approach and program it to really open up after 5 or 10 hours where it no longer complies with EPA!! I mean whose actually measuring...

Edited November 21, 2016 by The Hulk

[RTS]

One downside I see is that isn't it true that Malibu will be taking over the warranty responsibilities from Indmar?  With the heavier and heavier loads these engines are being asked to push I wonder if it is a good time for them to do this.  Also, personally, I would rather deal with Indmar on a warranty claim than Malibu, but that is just my personal experience.  Time will tell.

[bamaboy]

22 hours ago, bamabonners said:

Malibu isn't really known for their superb QC and I sure wouldn't want one of the first year engines.

You just bought a first year engine (2011 Ilmor) and many of those engines had major cooling issues.

[23LSVOwner]

3 hours ago, RTS said:

One downside I see is that isn't it true that Malibu will be taking over the warranty responsibilities from Indmar?  With the heavier and heavier loads these engines are being asked to push I wonder if it is a good time for them to do this.  Also, personally, I would rather deal with Indmar on a warranty claim than Malibu, but that is just my personal experience.  Time will tell.

Malibu would only have the warranty responsibility for engines they manufactured. Indmar would still have the responsibility for theirs.

[The Hulk]

for the price these motors are becoming and the loads they are being pushed to handle, i think its time to bring back the dual engine X80 style boat!!! you could probably have twins for the same price, less prop slip, cheaper/smaller props,... 

i also agree right now they are playing numbers by changing up gear ratios for lighter loads on the engines....in doing so though they are running higher rpms so i guess its a double edge sword.. AS @DarkSide has noted its consumer vs dealers vs factory word on if the USER has done something wrong by slamming the boat... currently malibu can blame it on someone else... when they bring it in house with "their certified" repair/dealers who knows... should be interesting.. 

[RTS]

40 minutes ago, 23LSVOwner said:

Malibu would only have the warranty responsibility for engines they manufactured. Indmar would still have the responsibility for theirs.

 

Yea...I got that.  Just would be a concern of mine if I were Malibu that warranty claims on engines that Malibu marinizes themselves would be spread among a smaller set of engines overall, versus Indmar that marinizes a ton more engines for all the different manufacturers.  Combine that with what the engines are being asked to do these days and I see a potential cost liability there.  But I'm sure they thought of all this and the liability has be factored in to any breakeven analysis they have done.

 

4 minutes ago, The Hulk said:

... currently malibu can blame it on someone else... when they bring it in house with "their certified" repair/dealers who knows... should be interesting.. 

That's exactly what I would be worried about if I were a Malibu Stockholder.  

[bamabonners]

2 hours ago, bamaboy said:

You just bought a first year engine (2011 Ilmor) and many of those engines had major cooling issues.

Yes, but I trust ilmor.  Which goes back to my point... ilmor has a history of producing great engines.  Malibu has no history producing an engine.

Edited November 21, 2016 by bamabonners