Malibu to marinize own GM engines

[23LSVOwner]

8 hours ago, ChainSetter said:

I refuse to buy any new Malibu idea at least for few years. They can't get much right these days. I'm on my third bu... not sure why. My 02 was amazing. My 07 went to hell at 450 hours and my 2015 (bought with 1 hour) is an absolute disaster to put it nicely.  Not to mention my local dealer refuses to work on it.  If they can't  make a screen stop flickering, wedge and surf gate work, stereo work, etc I have a hard time investing is 90K on a hope and a prayer

I imagine there is a reason your dealer refuses to work on it.

You aren't one of those customers, are you?

[DarkSide]

10 hours ago, ChainSetter said:

 I don't think they have any idea in TN how many customers they have lost.

There are a few leaving, but i would not consider it an exodus.  Malibu still has a very faithful following, most of which have a great user experience.  There are exceptions, but that is just it, exceptions not the rule.  

People don't usually start off as "those" customers, they become "those" customers though unresolved issues, or improper expectation being set by the dealer.  

Edited December 14, 2016 by DarkSide

[23LSVOwner]

52 minutes ago, DarkSide said:

People don't usually start off as "those" customers, they become "those" customers though unresolved issues, or improper expectation being set by the dealer.  

I used to work in service for more years than I care to mention. Believe me, there are PLENTY that start out as those customers right off of the bat.

[IXFE]

On 12/14/2016 at 10:31 AM, 23LSVOwner said:

I used to work in service for more years than I care to mention. Believe me, there are PLENTY that start out as those customers right off of the bat.

They are easy to spot too. They often say things like:

"You spend that kinda coin at any car dealer and see how the quality and service you get differ."

[23LSVOwner]

4 minutes ago, IXFE said:

They are easy to spot too. They often say things like:

"You spend that kinda coin at any car dealer and see how the quality and service you get differ."

Yep.

 

Some dealers just don't realize how much headache "prequalifying and firing" a customer could save them.

[DarkSide]

This is what I mean with setting proper expectations.  If "Bob" is expecting a loaner, every time he drops it off for an oil change, or the dealer to pick it up and return it.  Then "Bob" is going to be one of "those" customers.  If "Bob" is expecting absolute perfection like his Bentley, he needs to understand, boats are built by hand, on an assembly line with ~45 minute workstations, sometimes there are issues, the dealer will do thier best to correct it, but that is the nature.  Again if these aren't set up front, "bob" will be one of those customers.  If told he will not be guaranteed these things "bob" will likely fire the dealer, and go to the one that fails to set these expectations.  

[Bawshogg]

This is hillarious

I have been a dealership guy for MANY years... you don't know how many times we purposely "blow him out" with certain customers that just have unrealistic expectations. Sometimes the headache isn't worth the potential profit... which most often is sucked up by these time vampires anyways. I'm not saying we don't strive to offer the best we possibly can... it's just that it's not always good enough for some folks expectations.. we follow a cut your losses and move on type approach for the most part. 

You guys that become a royal PITA.... the advisors don't forget that... when you call again... "Sorry Mr.PITA, we are running about 3 weeks out right now, we'd be glad to get you in NEXT MONTH".  The ironic part of this is I can't tell you how many times these "PITA " customers actually end up returning .... even after the shouted and threatened " YOU'LL NEVER GET MY BUISNESS AGAIN !" . Most likely because ....Everywhere they go.... there they are.

I follow a few rules when I ASK for service... 1. Understand that YOU are not the only customer your dealer services. 2. Patience is a virtue... if you can't afford to wait, figure out how to do it YOURSELF. 3. Realize the people servicing or repairing your rig actually are human and  have a life too.. things happen that are not ALWAYS under their control. 

I don't always go to front of the line, I don't always get everything I asked for perfect the first time ... and I almost NEVER get what I need done for free... BUT I DONT ever expect too... so I am usually pretty content with my service expierience . 

I have found working with various dealers wether it be boat , automotive, really anything . IF I do everything I can to help them along , keep a level head and be realistic ... they typically Always treat me great and are happy to help me to the best of their ability.  I think most service folks WANT to do their job and do it well. 

 

 

[nyryan2001]

The good thing... is that although there is limited recourse when you have a fall out with a dealer and a brand, and expectations in QAQC, service and ethical conduct are not met... there are 4-5 other brands that all have great performance that WANT your business. 

Trade in on another brand, eat the minimal loss of a swap and move on.  I wish I had not waited so long trying to force things to work.

[Bawshogg]

That goes for just about all relationships in life now doesn't it? 

@nyryan2001, Dang man , I'm surprised to see how you are STILL grinding that axe after what ??? 5-6 years now and 4 g23's later ...... can't be any AXE left.... maybe the handle???

Freakin relentless....Isn't maybe it's time to cut your losses and move on from that?  

I think EVERYONE on the internet knows your stance .

Edited December 18, 2016 by Bawshogg

[DarkSide]

2 hours ago, Bawshogg said:

This is hillarious

I have been a dealership guy for MANY years... you don't know how many times we purposely "blow him out" with certain customers that just have unrealistic expectations. Sometimes the headache isn't worth the potential profit... which most often is sucked up by these time vampires anyways. I'm not saying we don't strive to offer the best we possibly can... it's just that it's not always good enough for some folks expectations.. we follow a cut your losses and move on type approach for the most part. 

You guys that become a royal PITA.... the advisors don't forget that... when you call again... "Sorry Mr.PITA, we are running about 3 weeks out right now, we'd be glad to get you in NEXT MONTH".  The ironic part of this is I can't tell you how many times these "PITA " customers actually end up returning .... even after the shouted and threatened " YOU'LL NEVER GET MY BUISNESS AGAIN !" . Most likely because ....Everywhere they go.... there they are.

I follow a few rules when I ASK for service... 1. Understand that YOU are not the only customer your dealer services. 2. Patience is a virtue... if you can't afford to wait, figure out how to do it YOURSELF. 3. Realize the people servicing or repairing your rig actually are human and  have a life too.. things happen that are not ALWAYS under their control. 

I don't always go to front of the line, I don't always get everything I asked for perfect the first time ... and I almost NEVER get what I need done for free... BUT I DONT ever expect too... so I am usually pretty content with my service expierience . 

I have found working with various dealers wether it be boat , automotive, really anything . IF I do everything I can to help them along , keep a level head and be realistic ... they typically Always treat me great and are happy to help me to the best of their ability.  I think most service folks WANT to do their job and do it well. 

 

 

Very well said!  You are absolutely correct in there are people who are NEVER satisfied and simply looking for someone or something to b**** about!  My faith in people wants me to believe these are a more rare occurrence, than the norm though.  However I don't face the public everyday so I could be wrong.

[Rednucleus]

36 minutes ago, DarkSide said:

Very well said!  You are absolutely correct in there are people who are NEVER satisfied and simply looking for someone or something to b**** about!  My faith in people wants me to believe these are a more rare occurrence, than the norm though.  However I don't face the public everyday so I could be wrong.

I agree - I see these rare folks come to my veterinary practice - certainly less than 10 a year. After 30 years in practice I have no problem asking them to seek care elsewhere. They are not happy or appreciative of our care, they make the staff cranky for the rest of the day or week, and they usually bad mouth you on social media too. Always spot them within 2-3 visits. 

[Nitrousbird]

These boats are overpriced. Period.  The bubble WILL eventually pop...and I will be there with cash to take advantage.  If I were buying a new boat (not that I would - I let other suckers eat the depreciation on big purchases) I would have VERY high service expectations.  One should - 100k can buy a livable home in many parts of the country.  These are luxury toys and high-end service should be part of the equation.  I don't give a crap how it is built or their lack of getting QAQC together.  The FACT is these are a chunk of laid fiberglass boats, bolt-in basic drivetrains, basic wiring setups, and very little gov't regulation.  Consumers should really expect more and reflect that with their wallets.

[bamaboy]

Speaking of same old Shtick....sheesh.  

 

As for the dealer issues, don't all of us that are in any type of service industry experience that?  I know that in my practice, sometimes doing the RIGHT thing involves making a patient VERY VERY unhappy.  The worst part is that this customer/patient/whatever can then go online and blast you in a negative fashion, give you negative ratings and tell everyone on facebook how crappy you are with zero consequences or proof.  Luckily it is a very small amount of people and 99% of people are great. 

 

I guess it doesn't really bother me much because I know that if I do the right thing for a patient then I will be able to look myself in the mirror every morning and feel good about my life and career whether it makes them happy or not.  Whoa...got a little deep there on y'all.  Carry on...

Edited December 18, 2016 by bamaboy

[Bawshogg]

I think it's hilarious also how some of you think that because the price of the boats has doubled and tripled that miraculously these dealers are now going to provide customers with a private concierge when the boat is in for service or you have issues.

I agree they are flat out exspensive.... but I still don't consider them "luxury" items as I would per say a Bentley , Porsche, or a Yacht. 

Remember , it's not the dealer that put the prices where they are. It's the MARKET. Manufactures HAD to maximize profit on each boat sold due to the economic situation of late. WE or the guys that DO buy new boats ....keep buying them!... I wouldn't lower prices either if I was looking at the data. 

Most of these dealers are fairly small operations..sans a few of the large group dealers. Service in a boat dealer is a tough game, it's very seasonal, and VERY high demand when demand is up ,and VERY slow when it's not. That inconsistency is extremely hard to staff for .....especially at the level you guys expect. By your expectations, they would need 15 highly skilled technicians .... whome are not cheap to keep around THE WHOLE year and WONT stick around when there is NO WORK...and honestly they don't exist.

Talk about high boat prices if that was the case!!!!

I know several folks in several different dealers and completely understand the struggles they face, and I HONESTLY believe they all try for the most part to THE BEST they can with what they have to work with. I know a few dealership OWNERS that wrench on boats to try and "make things happen" for their customers.  

There is just simply not the VOLUME of boat buyers out there to support the levels of service I think some of you expect, regardless of the price the manufactures set. 

[DarkSide]

34 minutes ago, bamaboy said:

Speaking of same old Shtick....sheesh.  

 

As for the dealer issues, don't all of us that are in any type of service industry experience that?  I know that in my practice, sometimes doing the RIGHT thing involves making a patient VERY VERY unhappy.  The worst part is that this customer/patient/whatever can then go online and blast you in a negative fashion, give you negative ratings and tell everyone on facebook how crappy you are with zero consequences or proof.  Luckily it is a very small amount of people and 99% of people are great. 

 

I guess it doesn't really bother me much because I know that if I do the right thing for a patient then I will be able to look myself in the mirror every morning and feel good about my life and career whether it makes them happy or not.  Whoa...got a little deep there on y'all.  Carry on...

I have opposite side of the coin.  As an engineer we are frequently "directed" to do less than optimal solutions because of budgetary constraints.  In these situations I voice my objections, and make sure the consequences of the decisions are understood, but in the end we make sacrifices to quality to save a buck.  

[ahopkins22LSV]

18 minutes ago, Bawshogg said:

I think it's hilarious also how some of you think that because the price of the boats has doubled and tripled that miraculously these dealers are now going to provide customers with a private concierge when the boat is in for service or you have issues.

I agree they are flat out exspensive.... but I still don't consider them "luxury" items as I would per say a Bentley , Porsche, or a Yacht. 

Remember , it's not the dealer that put the prices where they are. It's the MARKET. Manufactures HAD to maximize profit on each boat sold due to the economic situation of late. WE or the guys that DO buy new boats ....keep buying them!... I wouldn't lower prices either if I was looking at the data. 

Most of these dealers are fairly small operations..sans a few of the large group dealers. Service in a boat dealer is a tough game, it's very seasonal, and VERY high demand when demand is up ,and VERY slow when it's not. That inconsistency is extremely hard to staff for .....especially at the level you guys expect. By your expectations, they would need 15 highly skilled technicians .... whome are not cheap to keep around THE WHOLE year and WONT stick around when there is NO WORK...and honestly they don't exist.

Talk about high boat prices if that was the case!!!!

I know several folks in several different dealers and completely understand the struggles they face, and I HONESTLY believe they all try for the most part to THE BEST they can with what they have to work with. I know a few dealership OWNERS that wrench on boats to try and "make things happen" for their customers.  

There is just simply not the VOLUME of boat buyers out there to support the levels of service I think some of you expect, regardless of the price the manufactures set. 

100% agree with all of this. Service is stupid slammed for two months in the spring, then dead through the summer, then stupid slammed for two months in the fall then dead through the winter. 

[IXFE]

Many years ago I bought a European car that came with 50k maint included. Normally I like doing my own basic maint, but since it was free why not live like the other half, right?  

Anyway, on the forum guys were always wanting their oil changed out with Mobile 1 (the plan only covered conventional oil).  So the common practice was to bring your own oil and leave it on the front seat with a dozen Krispy Kreme's for the techs.

This was over 15 years ago. Back then I was of the mindset like Nitrous... that I was owed something because "Damnit I paid good money for this car."  But I followed the forum advice and started leaving donuts in the car when I dropped it off. Amazing concept, right?  Doing something nice for the people who actually touch your car!  

I look back on that experience and I feel ashamed for ever thinking the world owed me anything just because I spent a certain amount of money.  Why do we need to be reminded to be good to the people who service our toys?  Why are we surprised that it's not warranties that get things fixed, it's people. The world runs on relationships!  Why are we shocked that when we don't nurture them we might notice a difference in service level?

When I'm in the neighborhood I always make it a point to drop in on AWS just to say hi or bump fists with the guys in the shop. We share stories or talk shop about the various boats in for service. Over the years I've enjoyed getting to know ALL the people who have made boating possible for my family. I've even left a treat or twelve in the boat for their consumption 

Everytime I read a story on this forum about some dude who's fired up and mad at the world about how he was wronged, I just think to myself, "This isn't about product defects or warranties... it's about a breakdown in relationships."

[blytle473]

3 hours ago, Bawshogg said:

I think it's hilarious also how some of you think that because the price of the boats has doubled and tripled that miraculously these dealers are now going to provide customers with a private concierge when the boat is in for service or you have issues.

I agree they are flat out exspensive.... but I still don't consider them "luxury" items as I would per say a Bentley , Porsche, or a Yacht. 

Remember , it's not the dealer that put the prices where they are. It's the MARKET. Manufactures HAD to maximize profit on each boat sold due to the economic situation of late. WE or the guys that DO buy new boats ....keep buying them!... I wouldn't lower prices either if I was looking at the data. 

Most of these dealers are fairly small operations..sans a few of the large group dealers. Service in a boat dealer is a tough game, it's very seasonal, and VERY high demand when demand is up ,and VERY slow when it's not. That inconsistency is extremely hard to staff for .....especially at the level you guys expect. By your expectations, they would need 15 highly skilled technicians .... whome are not cheap to keep around THE WHOLE year and WONT stick around when there is NO WORK...and honestly they don't exist.

Talk about high boat prices if that was the case!!!!

I know several folks in several different dealers and completely understand the struggles they face, and I HONESTLY believe they all try for the most part to THE BEST they can with what they have to work with. I know a few dealership OWNERS that wrench on boats to try and "make things happen" for their customers.  

There is just simply not the VOLUME of boat buyers out there to support the levels of service I think some of you expect, regardless of the price the manufactures set. 

 

 

8

I somewhat agree with this. 

Considering the fact that I can go by a Bayliner brand new for $14,999, I would absolutely consider these boat a luxury item. You might say that these boats aren't nearly the same caliber as a Malibu, Nautique, or Centurion, but a Chevy isn't the same as a Bentley or a Porsche. 

I understand the fact that a boat dealer, especially in Michigan where I live, is busy for 2 months in the spring and 2 months in the fall and your dead slow any other time. It is awfully hard to employ workers that have a sense of pride in their work that is required for a top notch operation. I will give an example here about service. I have a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee. It is a fantastic car for what I need it for. My mom drives a 2015 Range Rover Sport. It's about a 40K price difference between the 2 cars. The RR I would consider to fall in the "luxury" category meanwhile my Jeep, not so much. The service is like night and day. Our local RR dealership will send someone out, go to where she works, drop off a loaner car that she can drive home, and when the car is done being serviced, the service technician will drive to where she lives and swap out cars without hesitation. I don't expect that from a car dealership, but that's an example of people going above and beyond for their customers and I think that is something that is really missing in the boat service industry. I don't expect a loaner boat everytime I need a impeller change or an oil change but at least being honest in the timeframe that will take for the work to get completed. If it doesn't fit my time window, I'll go find someone else or I'll bite the bullet and do it myself if needed. 

Here in SE Michigan, there are so many lakes and a ton of Malibu's on these lakes. But only one dealer. You would think of the market share that Malibu has, there would be multiple dealers and equally there are an abundance of jobs awaiting the dealer.

I am just saying I would never buy a boat new... I will let someone else take the depreciation hit and the mechanical/technological problems that I will not have with a boat such as my 2004. I'm not sure if it is because I am not a customer that bought new or even used from them or a "loyal" customer because I haven't bought multiple boats from them. I have owned this boat for 7 seasons putting $1,000's of dollars into the boat in just service (engine computer, thermostat, plugs, water pump, (general maintenance) etc.) all with this done by the dealer. On top of the fact that I had a $5K engine rebuild and a nearly $3k transmission job with them. The amount of lying that I have experienced just with this engine and transmission jobs is just astonishing. If It wasn't for the 3 year warranty that I got with this engine rebuild, I would've been gone out the door faster than you could say "well wait a minute". Another example, I took my boat to get winterized on 11/7/16. They said it will be done in a week and I still haven't gotten it back. Don't tell me time and time again that "oh well will have this within a week" and it ends up taking months. If it was spring time I would be "one of those customers" because if you can't keep your word then you don't deserve my business. There are plenty of other dealers in the area that would be more than willing to service my boat. Knowing MasterCraft and Nautique owners, there are some pretty decent dealers in the area.  If you would've been straight up and said "it's going to take a month", you can bet anything that I would've figured something else out.

What ever happened to customer loyalty...?

I understand that there are good dealers out there, but not everyone has that same experience. Blaming on the fact that they are "one of those customers" is just an excuse for labeling good customers that are just sick and tired of constantly questioning when things will get done. Yes, I know there are more demanding customers than others, but when spending the kind of money that you do to buy these boats with the level of service that you get is just appalling.

Edited December 19, 2016 by blytle473

[IXFE]

Oh, and please stop comparing boat dealers to car dealers. It's not even remotely similar.  

A better comparison would be RV dealerships or custom home builders.  

[hethj7]

8 minutes ago, IXFE said:

Oh, and please stop comparing boat dealers to car dealers. It's not even remotely similar.  

A better comparison would be RV dealerships or custom home builders.  

Well, my home building experience was one of the worst in terms of customer service.   The finished product is great, but the process was miserable.   Now, my home isn't quite a one-off "custom", but was done by a local KC builder using customizations from one of his canned floor plans.  

And in reality, when I think about these boats being overpriced, I'm not so sure they are.  While these aren't yachts, they are low production upper tier boats, IMO.  I'd like to think they should be cheaper, but most of us have priced out a new SUV or truck recently, and those prices have skyrocketed, along with cars like the Mustang.  Again, the market sets the price, so we can't complain too much.

[IXFE]

1 hour ago, hethj7 said:

Well, my home building experience was one of the worst in terms of customer service.   The finished product is great, but the process was miserable.   Now, my home isn't quite a one-off "custom", but was done by a local KC builder using customizations from one of his canned floor plans.  

And in reality, when I think about these boats being overpriced, I'm not so sure they are.  While these aren't yachts, they are low production upper tier boats, IMO.  I'd like to think they should be cheaper, but most of us have priced out a new SUV or truck recently, and those prices have skyrocketed, along with cars like the Mustang.  Again, the market sets the price, so we can't complain too much.

Are the new Malibus expensive?  Sure

Are they overpriced?  No. Just look at MBUU financial statements. The cost to build these boats has rise as fast as the prices we see. 

[hethj7]

I agree.  I said I "wish" they were cheaper but I don't think they are overpriced.  My point was the price of mass manufactured autos has skyrocketed, so seeing that a low volume boat would command 6 figure prices isn't really that surprising. 

[23LSVOwner]

23 hours ago, nyryan2001 said:

The good thing... is that although there is limited recourse when you have a fall out with a dealer and a brand, and expectations in QAQC, service and ethical conduct are not met... there are 4-5 other brands that all have great performance that WANT your business. 

Trade in on another brand, eat the minimal loss of a swap and move on.  I wish I had not waited so long trying to force things to work.

 

Having worked for some of those brands I can tell you for a fact that they have many of the same issues the Malibu boats do from time to time. Some have more.

 

I'll never forget dealing with a certain customer with one company. One of those people you couldn't make happy. After going the extra mile and putting him into another brand new boat it still didn't cut it.

 

Let's jump up a few years later when I work for another brand. Get a call one day from, you guessed it, the same guy. "I never had any issues with my X brand of boat. You guys should take notes from them.

 

My reply. Mr. customer, you may not remember me but I was the one who dealt with you at X company. I remember the concerns you had expressed through our many phone conversations.

 

Things went quite a bit different after that......

 

Edited December 19, 2016 by 23LSVOwner
typos-sausage fingers

[shawndoggy]

9 hours ago, hethj7 said:

I agree.  I said I "wish" they were cheaper but I don't think they are overpriced.  My point was the price of mass manufactured autos has skyrocketed, so seeing that a low volume boat would command 6 figure prices isn't really that surprising. 

And yet... the amount of tech that's stuffed into a new vehicle completely dwarfs what they do with boats.  More carpet and seating surfaces in a boat, to be sure, but blind spot warnings, lane departure warnings, nav, heated and cooled seats, heated steering wheel, adjustable pedals, air suspension, etc etc, all in a vehicle that one can reasonably expect that you could jump into and drive all day every day for at least a couple of years before having to do anything more significant than oil changes.  Economies of scale are a beautiful thing!

Buy any new boat and nobody will be surprised if you have some "gremlins" (many of which are essentially manufacturing defects) to work out.  

I do totally agree with @IXFE tho -- cost notwithstanding, boats aren't cars and you can't compare your 'bu to a car, even a relatively rare one.  Shoot, @blytle473 made me look -- even a somewhat obscure brand like Range Rover built 400k units in 2015... about 100 times as many boats as Malibu made.  

[hethj7]

No surfgate on my F-150 though