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tedshred

Modified wedge for bigger wake

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tedshred

I have spent the winter devising modifications for our 2009 VLX for surf and Wakeboard  and stage 1 has almost been completed; a Malibu power wedge enhancement to increase the surface area of the wedge to be similar in dimensions to a well-known, more recent product from a popular wake boat manufacturer…..;-) One of my key design principles is that a modification can be easily reversed. Three 8mm 5/16 holes remain that can be easily plugged or welded. This modification would obviously be applicable to a manual/floating wedge set up although, with a floating wedge the relationship between the struts and the chord may be more critical. This approach can easily be adapted to increase surface area further. We will be testing this modified wedge in the next weeks and an even larger version shortly after. Stay tuned..

Link to Google album here: https://goo.gl/photos/hHWWDsWt4ZTHYjTM6

Feedback welcome

Edited by tedshred

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formulaben

Can't wait to see pictures.

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tedshred
30 minutes ago, formulaben said:

Can't wait to see pictures.

Google album link added..

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martinarcher

Interesting mod.  Any idea what percentage the surface area of the foil was increased by?

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Ndawg12

Awesome, when you're done with this concept can you play with the angle so that fully deployed acts like lift mode?  Most of us already go all the way down and then back up 2-3 clicks anyways, you would just have to make the adjustment once on plane.  Just have to raise the front or drop the back of the foil I'd think...

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Chia

definitely going to follow this topic.

Once you get it dialed, please pm me with a quote for a copy. 

edit: why did you slide the new piece over the old one instead of just bolting it to the bottom, is the force that much greater on the extra surface area that it would shear the bolts?

edit: will it still fit inside the FAE?

Edited by Chia

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tedshred
On 01/11/2016 at 0:18 PM, martinarcher said:

Interesting mod.  Any idea what percentage the surface area of the foil was increased by?

Approx 21% from 138"sq to 168" sq

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tedshred
14 hours ago, Chia said:

definitely going to follow this topic.

Once you get it dialed, please pm me with a quote for a copy. 

edit: why did you slide the new piece over the old one instead of just bolting it to the bottom, is the force that much greater on the extra surface area that it would shear the bolts?

edit: will it still fit inside the FAE?

I put the foil on top for the following reasons:

I believe the total max negative lift generated at wake board towing speeds is up from around 1200lbs to around 1500lbs (happy to have this validated!)

The negative lift (force) on the assembly is exerted on the top surface and by using aluminium instead of stainless, swing weight and cost is managed whilst maintaining strength.

In this configuration I don't see shear as an issue

This is a freshwater set up. Saltwater mixed with this stainless/aluminum configuration may need a slightly different approach in the form of cathodic protection. Eg. the addition of an anode.

The original foil helps (notionally) to create a slightly aero cross-section when combined with the new foil. My own fantasy is that this will nominally enhance lift without a significant increase in drag! 

Drag is reduced by having countersunk screws on the top and the nyloc nuts on the bottom. I am aware that this would also be possible with the plate under however damage to the original foil is minimised.

Aesthetically, I believe this works better to preserves the original look.

As for FAE; I dont have one. The total width is 24". someone will need to measure and confirm.

 

 

 

Edited by tedshred

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tedshred
21 hours ago, Ndawg12 said:

Awesome, when you're done with this concept can you play with the angle so that fully deployed acts like lift mode?  Most of us already go all the way down and then back up 2-3 clicks anyways, you would just have to make the adjustment once on plane.  Just have to raise the front or drop the back of the foil I'd think...

I have considered this. In theory, I see no reason why not. The same applies for the standard sized wedge. I believe that ram throw is one constraint. The other may be the ability of the rams to handle the force of the transition. By relocating the top ram mounts further back on the carriage with an extension plate or changing the ram config it may be possible to move the wedge to a lift position and back to create negative lift using the existing controls.  Perhaps this presents a Martinarcher controller mod opportunity? 

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Andrew63

Good old AUSSIE ingenuity.

love the bolt on idea to minimise the modifications to the original equipment.

will also be keen to see the results

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tedshred
8 hours ago, Andrew63 said:

Good old AUSSIE ingenuity.

love the bolt on idea to minimise the modifications to the original equipment.

will also be keen to see the results

I'll provide some feedback when I get the boat in after water levels drop and the debris clears. 

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Chia

Have you considered that instead of dropping the new wedge over the old wedge that you could CNC out the shape of the old wedge in the new wedge and slip it over the top or even from the bottom and be flush fit all the way around.

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jrvs23

Is there any concern with adding a lot more pulling down force, drag on the transom of the boat? It  would seem to me you would be adding a lot of stress there.

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tedshred
On 04/11/2016 at 8:59 AM, jrvs23 said:

Is there any concern with adding a lot more pulling down force, drag on the transom of the boat? It  would seem to me you would be adding a lot of stress there.

Yes. That was considered. However, I believe that I have adopted a conservative approach in increasing the surface area. My view on the strength of the transom and hull in general is based largely on empirical & anecdotal evidence gathered from the discussions in this forum and elsewhere, combined with my own observations. Earlier this year, I damaged the wedge assembly quite severely on a submerged obstacle. Repair involved full replacement of the wedge assembly including the carriage yet, there was no subsequent damage to the hull or transom in the area around the wedge assy. Under these circumstances, I am willing to accept what I believe to be, a low level of risk and will inspect the area regularly for any signs of stress or damage, secure in the knowledge that I can revert to a standard config in minutes.

My main concern is the potential impact to boat attitude (and therefore, handling) when fully deployed and towing at wakeboarding speeds. The boat already has a tendency to "porpoise" when the wedge is fully deployed, no ballast, one or two light passengers (sitting at the back) and towing into the wind....

...or am I the only one that experiences this?

Edited by tedshred

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tedshred
17 hours ago, Chia said:

Have you considered that instead of dropping the new wedge over the old wedge that you could CNC out the shape of the old wedge in the new wedge and slip it over the top or even from the bottom and be flush fit all the way around.

 

17 hours ago, Chia said:

Have you considered that instead of dropping the new wedge over the old wedge that you could CNC out the shape of the old wedge in the new wedge and slip it over the top or even from the bottom and be flush fit all the way around.

I sure did. I also applied the KISS principle and I couldnt work out a simple way to  fix it in place to reliably support the additional 300lbs of force without extra work and hardware.

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jrvs23

How has your testing gone?

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Dare2goBare
On Thursday, November 03, 2016 at 2:59 PM, jrvs23 said:

Is there any concern with adding a lot more pulling down force, drag on the transom of the boat? It  would seem to me you would be adding a lot of stress there.

As to add to what tedshred mentioned on hiting a underwater object and the strength of the transom and hull, there have been on ocasion " can't belive I'm mentioning this  :Doh:... lol... " during our barefoot sessions, after that is,  we realized we had forgotten to bring up our floating wedge after a preveous wakeboarder or kneeboard session.  42 Mph puts a lot of stress on that wedge, and no il fate todate. I would like to think Malibu has put all this to test though!

On a side note,  I'm thinking of installing a LED indicator at the helm for this very reason. TBD. :whistle:

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Malibuzer
28 minutes ago, Dare2goBare said:

As to add to what tedshred mentioned on hiting a underwater object and the strength of the transom and hull, there have been on ocasion " can't belive I'm mentioning this  :Doh:... lol... " during our barefoot sessions, after that is,  we realized we had forgotten to bring up our floating wedge after a preveous wakeboarder or kneeboard session.  42 Mph puts a lot of stress on that wedge, and no il fate todate. I would like to think Malibu has put all this to test though!

On a side note,  I'm thinking of installing a LED indicator at the helm for this very reason. TBD. :whistle:

You didn't notice any spray?  I am surprised you could get the boat up to speed!

 

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Dare2goBare
7 hours ago, Malibuzer said:

You didn't notice any spray?  I am surprised you could get the boat up to speed!

 

We were short lining off the boom,  so realy didn't pay any attention to behind the boat,  just noticed, and again after the fact,  that the boat took a little longer to

get up to speed, but it did get up there, we were Suprised to.  Maybe after a certain speed as the hull plains out the foating wedge as no real effect.

     Ya ya I know...  :Doh:

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martinarcher

Dang!  I'm also shocked you got it to 42mph!  

My boat has a red indicator on the dash just for this! :) 

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Dare2goBare
11 hours ago, martinarcher said:

Dang!  I'm also shocked you got it to 42mph!  

My boat has a red indicator on the dash just for this! :) 

" Dang!  I'm also shocked you got it to 42mph!"  So were we the first time, and  it's happen a few times, :Doh:

Martinarcher,   Did you install the wedge light indicator yourself? And what type of water proof micro switch did you use at the wedge?

tedshred, not meaning to high jack your thread.

Edited by Dare2goBare

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martinarcher

@rugger put it in when he mounted the floating wedge.  Hopefully he will remember what switch it is.  I've been rocking the same one since he installed it and it's been flawless.  

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tedshred
3 hours ago, Dare2goBare said:

" Dang!  I'm also shocked you got it to 42mph!"  So were we the first time, and  it's happen a few times, :Doh:

Martinarcher,   Did you install the wedge light indicator yourself? And what type of water proof micro switch did you use at the wedge?

tedshred, not meaning to high jack your thread.

No worries! Have a look at the initial posts regarding an approach to the "plane assist" wedge and controller mod. Interested in your thoughts..

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mkpursehouse
On 11/22/2016 at 2:34 AM, Dare2goBare said:

As to add to what tedshred mentioned on hiting a underwater object and the strength of the transom and hull, there have been on ocasion " can't belive I'm mentioning this  :Doh:... lol... " during our barefoot sessions, after that is,  we realized we had forgotten to bring up our floating wedge after a preveous wakeboarder or kneeboard session.  42 Mph puts a lot of stress on that wedge, and no il fate todate. I would like to think Malibu has put all this to test though!

On a side note,  I'm thinking of installing a LED indicator at the helm for this very reason. TBD. :whistle:

Glad to hear I'm not the only one to do this. Have only done it the once so far. I was long line footing & could work out why the boat was porposing so bad when the water was flat. haha. No problem with getting to footing speed though.

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