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Michigan boarder

Blackstone Laboratories oil sample results

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Michigan boarder

Here are the oil sample results from my engine, a custom built 388 stroker.  There are 54 hours on the engine (24 hours last year, 30 hours this year).  The 2015 oil is in the column to the right side of the "unit/location averages" column, and the 2016 oil is in the column to the left.  They indicate extra copper and tin this year, "possibly from the oil cooler", but we do not run oil coolers.  So what's up?  Is bronze wear main/rod bearings?  Chromium is down, which is ring wear, correct?  Engine guys - do you see anything of concern or am I OK?

Blackstone Labs compressed 3.jpg

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ski40mph

Wonder what other boat engine reports show.

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MadMan

I've never seen one of these oil reports before, but "copper and tin" sounds like bearings and "bronze" sounds like the distributor drive gear.

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Woodski

@Michigan boarder:  did the engine have any non-normal 'events' in 2016?  Examples would include an overheat, shock load to prop > crankshaft, over rev?  Did you run the same oil filter, fuel brand / octane level and was there a difference in oil drain interval?  The viscosity data indicates the oil remained in great shape.

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Michigan boarder
17 hours ago, Woodski said:

@Michigan boarder:  did the engine have any non-normal 'events' in 2016?  Examples would include an overheat, shock load to prop > crankshaft, over rev?  Did you run the same oil filter, fuel brand / octane level and was there a difference in oil drain interval?  The viscosity data indicates the oil remained in great shape.

Zero events like that.  Same oil filter, fuel was sourced at different places, usually filling the tank when we trailered it somewhere but always 89 octane.

The oil drain interval was different: In 2016 I drained the oil on 9/5/16, put a sample in their container, and sent it out a couple weeks ago and it was tested on 10/19/16.  In 2015, I drained the oil on 9/7/16, left the oil in the oil filter on the bench with a rag over it, and finally sent it out to them in February and they tested it on 2/23/16.

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CumminsBu

How many oil changes have you done and we're any samples sent with engine assemble lube or anti seizes?

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Falko

What kind of valve guides did you use in the heads?

Bronze is primarily copper and tin. You might just be seeing wear in on the distributor gear as it meshes to the cam.  I'd keep an eye on it for next time though to make sure it curtails.

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Michigan boarder
7 minutes ago, CumminsBu said:

How many oil changes have you done and we're any samples sent with engine assemble lube or anti seizes?

The was the 3rd oil change: 1)break in oil, then oil changed 2)dyno'd, then ran for the season in 2015, then oil changed 3) ran for the 2016, then oil changed and this is that oil.  Not sure what you mean by the lube or seizes, but they did note some silicon showed up in the 2015 oil test.

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Michigan boarder
Just now, Falko said:

What kind of valve guides did you use in the heads?

Bronze is primarily copper and tin. You might just be seeing wear in on the distributor gear as it meshes to the cam.  I'd keep an eye on it for next time though to make sure it curtails.

No idea on the valve guides.  That would make sense on the distributor.

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Kmfish87
34 minutes ago, Michigan boarder said:

The was the 3rd oil change: 1)break in oil, then oil changed 2)dyno'd, then ran for the season in 2015, then oil changed 3) ran for the 2016, then oil changed and this is that oil.  Not sure what you mean by the lube or seizes, but they did note some silicon showed up in the 2015 oil test.

I think @CumminsBu would be referring to copper based anti-seize used during assembly that could have gotten into the oil sample.

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Michigan boarder
27 minutes ago, Kmfish87 said:

I think @CumminsBu would be referring to copper based anti-seize used during assembly that could have gotten into the oil sample.

Ah, got it.  Thanks. 

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robbennett

Being that new could it still possibly be related to break in? I know you are on the third oil change but how long do they take to fully break in?

 

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CumminsBu
55 minutes ago, Michigan boarder said:

Ah, got it.  Thanks. 

That's where I was going. 

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Bill_AirJunky

I sent a sample from my Avalanche recently. The truck has just over 165k miles on it & runs well as far as I can tell. But the report says I have excessive amounts of iron wearing, which can indicate poor wear of cam/lifters, among other things. Wondering if changing to another type of oil may reduce that wear.

 

05 AVALANCHE-100916.pdf

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Sixball

Don't like the long sit time in the 2015 sample! What are the values in? ( PPM )  Parts per million? How did you sample the 2015 sample after the long sit time? Did you move the oil around in the filter or just poor or draw a sample without much movement in the filter?  I see, PPM! had to blow up my screen. Old fart eyes! :whistle:

Edited by Sixball

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Michigan boarder
21 hours ago, Bill_AirJunky said:

I sent a sample from my Avalanche recently. The truck has just over 165k miles on it & runs well as far as I can tell. But the report says I have excessive amounts of iron wearing, which can indicate poor wear of cam/lifters, among other things. Wondering if changing to another type of oil may reduce that wear.

 

05 AVALANCHE-100916.pdf

How did you attach the pdf like that? 

11 hours ago, Sixball said:

Don't like the long sit time in the 2015 sample! What are the values in? ( PPM )  Parts per million? How did you sample the 2015 sample after the long sit time? Did you move the oil around in the filter or just poor or draw a sample without much movement in the filter?  I see, PPM! had to blow up my screen. Old fart eyes! :whistle:

Yeah, I meant to get to it but it took me a while.  I swirled it around in the filter but that's about it for the 2015 sample.  The 2016 sample was warm oil drained right out of the tube while doing the oil change.  I'm 47 and was carving a pumpkin with my daughter last night - VERY detailed.  Felt like I needed to put a set of contacts on my set of contacts.

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Bill_AirJunky
3 hours ago, Michigan boarder said:

How did you attach the pdf like that?

I just attached it using the "choose files" link near the bottom of the app when your posting. Maybe it only shows up when your a Supporter? I know some options are not there when my site supporter subscription lapses.

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Michigan boarder
Just now, Bill_AirJunky said:

I just attached it using the "choose files" link near the bottom of the app when your posting. Maybe it only shows up when your a Supporter? I know some options are not there when my site supporter subscription lapses.

Wow, that was easy.  Seems like we couldn't to that with pdf's, just jpegs before.  I've attached both the 2015 and 2016 reports.  Thanks!

2015 engine oil analysis.pdf

2016 engine oil analysis.pdf

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Sixball

 So how is your oil pressure? has it changed from say the early days of 2015?  Do you know what bearings are in the engine? Bi or Tri metal ?  the softest part is the surface so the least amount of say aliment in the line bore for the crank or cam could show a small amount of wear and then stop. The silicon is embedded throughout the metal Its a friction reducer. The copper is more often deeper in the bearing. The oil I see but is it a synthetic or blend or standard oil?  Oh if you wish to black out your personal data on the data you uploaded it is not! 

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Michigan boarder
17 minutes ago, Sixball said:

 So how is your oil pressure? has it changed from say the early days of 2015?  Do you know what bearings are in the engine? Bi or Tri metal ?  the softest part is the surface so the least amount of say aliment in the line bore for the crank or cam could show a small amount of wear and then stop. The silicon is embedded throughout the metal Its a friction reducer. The copper is more often deeper in the bearing. The oil I see but is it a synthetic or blend or standard oil?  Oh if you wish to black out your personal data on the data you uploaded it is not! 

Yeah, I saw that on personal info, no biggie I guess.

No idea on the bearings.  I need to get a call into Sgt. to get his input too.  No change in oil pressure, it is typically around 45 even at idle, a Melling high volume pump was installed.  Oil is standard Rotella T 15w40.

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Sixball

The two things with a report like this are  1) The sample time for the one sample that sat in the filter.  2) With 30 hours I would think the boat sat for longer times between startup. We all know start ups are the hardest on our vehicles. I am with Blackstone I would pull another sample some place near 30 hours next year and see what it looks like. And keep an eye on oil pressure in the mean time. You would not need to change oil just draw a sample.  Falco's thoughts on the valve guides is a good point even more with long times between startups. Do you have the old filter? It might be interesting to pull a sample off the old filter element or base the areas that may contain settled particles.  I don't think I would lose sleep yet! Bearings change a lot the higher the performance level gets. A standard auto bearing is quite soft and made so a impurity will scar the bearing easily. the higher performance have less crush and much harder.      

 

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Fman

I know someone with a Malibu Skier with 2400 hours on it, he does annual oil change and filter and that is it.

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Bill_AirJunky
55 minutes ago, Fman said:

I know someone with a Malibu Skier with 2400 hours on it, he does annual oil change and filter and that is it.

Sound like the 5.3 in my Avalanche......nothing but oil changes & over 2600 hrs. at 166k miles.

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RyanB
54 minutes ago, Bill_AirJunky said:

Sound like the 5.3 in my Avalanche......nothing but oil changes & over 2600 hrs. at 166k miles.

How do you drive 166,000 miles with an avg MPH of 63.8?  That seems very high.

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