Oh man should I or Shouldn't I? trade for 17 lsv

[Fman]

1 hour ago, tjklein said:

I wouldn't upgrade from 15 to 17.  The boats are almost identical except for a few things.  Yes, the motor makes a decent difference but if it hasn't been a huge problem to this point waiting until the 2018 23 will be worth the wait.  The 23LSV will be due for some big changes.  It's their #1 model and if you look at the lineup you'll see a redesign is coming.

 

But, it's up to you.  It's always fun getting a new boat!

 

What about these changes?  I don't think the boats are almost identical.  From a '16 to '17 not much at all other than WS and G3.5,  plus he will pay at least another 4-5% more in 2018.  A little birdie told me nothing is planned for a 2018 LSV redesign, so I am speculating it will be in 2019.

Base Raptor 410

5 Year warranty

1.72:1 Transmission

G3.5 Tower

Hydraulic surf tabs

Windshield

Captains seat & now adjustable

Surfband

Wetsounds stereo

Decal change

PnP upgrade

Gator grip flooring available

New vinyl

 

 

Edited October 22, 2016 by Fman

[IXFE]

Just now, Fman said:

What about these changes?  I don't think the boats are almost identical.  From a '16 to '17 not much at all other than WS and G3.5,  plus he will pay at least another 4-5% more in 2018.  A little birdie told me nothing is planned for a 2018 LSV redesign, so I am speculating it will be in 2019.

Base Raptor 410

5 Year warranty

1.72:1 Transmission

G3.5 Tower

Hydraulic surf tabs

Windshield

Captains seat & now adjustable

Surfband

Wetsounds stereo

Decal change

PnP upgrade

Gator grip flooring available

 

 

Also rear view camera. I think that was new in '16. 

The G4 also has rear facing LED lights now integrated and included with the tower.  I don't think the OP is considering a G4 but I figured it was worth mentioning. 

[ahopkins22LSV]

2 hours ago, Nitrousbird said:

No one is arguing it is better.  I am simply stating it is an easy retrofit and would be dumb to sell a boat simply for that.

Agreed if it was the only reason he was considering. But since it is on a fairly good list of changes between 15&17 it is something to consider IMO. 

[tjklein]

48 minutes ago, Fman said:

What about these changes?  I don't think the boats are almost identical.  From a '16 to '17 not much at all other than WS and G3.5,  plus he will pay at least another 4-5% more in 2018.  A little birdie told me nothing is planned for a 2018 LSV redesign, so I am speculating it will be in 2019.

Base Raptor 410

5 Year warranty

1.72:1 Transmission

G3.5 Tower

Hydraulic surf tabs

Windshield

Captains seat & now adjustable

Surfband

Wetsounds stereo

Decal change

PnP upgrade

Gator grip flooring available

New vinyl

 

 

 

Yes, there's been some smaller in line changes...but seriously did you just list 'decal change'?  :-)  And we've all talked about how awesome surf band is, not to mention the revolutionary windshield change.

 

Again, I'm just stating the other side of it.  There's going to be a whole new boat next year.  For me personally I wouldn't buy the last model year of vehicle because I'd have serious envy of the new one.  If he was coming from a 2013 23LSV I might feel different, but how about we list all the things that are the same?  Is the actual surf/wake experience really that different?

 

Next year you'll probably have a walk thru transom, new hull design, NEW WS components (better amps, Rev 10s), 2 piece hull design, less carpet, more billet parts, larger ballast hard tanks, PNP that measures like the MXZ line, possibly larger props, a heavier boat so you need less ballast weight, and a few other things I'm sure.  That to me would be worth waiting 1 more year to upgrade.   Again, that's my personal opinion.

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2016 by tjklein

[IXFE]

29 minutes ago, tjklein said:

 

Yes, there's been some smaller in line changes...but seriously did you just list 'decal change'?  :-)  And we've all talked about how awesome surf band is, not to mention the revolutionary windshield change.

 

Again, I'm just stating the other side of it.  There's going to be a whole new boat next year.  For me personally I wouldn't buy the last model year of vehicle because I'd have serious envy of the new one.  If he was coming from a 2013 23LSV I might feel different, but how about we list all the things that are the same?  Is the actual surf/wake experience really that different?

 

Next year you'll probably have a walk thru transom, new hull design, NEW WS components (better amps, Rev 10s), 2 piece hull design, less carpet, more billet parts, larger ballast hard tanks, PNP that measures like the MXZ line, possibly larger props, a heavier boat so you need less ballast weight, and a few other things I'm sure.  That to me would be worth waiting 1 more year to upgrade.   Again, that's my personal opinion.

 

 

 

Wow, TJ...  I didn't realize you got a job in the Malibu design department. Thanks for all the info on the 2018 LSV 

[tjklein]

1 hour ago, IXFE said:

Wow, TJ...  I didn't realize you got a job in the Malibu design department. Thanks for all the info on the 2018 LSV 

 

It's a good side gig.  :-)  

 

Seriously, I don't know anything for sure, but I'd bet on on the hull change, walk thru, bigger tanks, and departure from a carpet mid on the LSV.  Malibu isn't exactly Apple with their secrecy they have a lot of people who work there and plenty vendors.  One last addition...most of the competition is offering walk thru and less carpet (2pc vs 3pc).  This has not gone unnoticed to Malibu I'm sure.  

 

I'm still a little up in the air if I wait for a new 23 or get a 22MXZ this coming year, so I'm stuck on upgrading too.  It's just a tough call.  I really, really like the walk thru on the MXZ (and the G, X23, and others) so I did a lot of asking around about the upcoming 23.  

Edited October 22, 2016 by tjklein

[IXFE]

22 minutes ago, tjklein said:

 

It's a good side gig.  :-)  

 

Seriously, I don't know anything for sure, but I'd bet on on the hull change, walk thru, bigger tanks, and departure from a carpet mid on the LSV.  Malibu isn't exactly Apple with their secrecy they have a lot of people who work there and plenty vendors.  One last addition...most of the competition is offering walk thru and less carpet (2pc vs 3pc).  This has not gone unnoticed to Malibu I'm sure.  

 

I'm still a little up in the air if I wait for a new 23 or get a 22MXZ this coming year, so I'm stuck on upgrading too.  It's just a tough call.  I really, really like the walk thru on the MXZ (and the G, X23, and others) so I did a lot of asking around about the upcoming 23.  

I've asked around too... my factory source only said "there are no current plans to update the 23 LSV."  I'm not saying that's definitive. Just saying  it's hardly a slam dunk. 

I personally hope your vision of the redesign never happens. Not everybody wants a walk through, and Malibu offers plenty of boats with it. Why spread that across the entire line?  I would leave it as an MXZ only feature. Also, why do you assume they will go to 2 piece build?  They could have done that with the last redesign. The original MXZ was a 2 piece and it was two years old the last time they redesigned the 23. They didn't do it then so why now?  I personally don't think it's superior. 

I'm not a huge fan of the new MXZ interior. I hope the new 23 (whenever it happens) is more like the 25... Updated side design, taller top deck, rear facing bench, etc

[Fman]

4 hours ago, tjklein said:

 

Yes, there's been some smaller in line changes...but seriously did you just list 'decal change'?  :-)  And we've all talked about how awesome surf band is, not to mention the revolutionary windshield change.

 

Again, I'm just stating the other side of it.  There's going to be a whole new boat next year.  For me personally I wouldn't buy the last model year of vehicle because I'd have serious envy of the new one.  If he was coming from a 2013 23LSV I might feel different, but how about we list all the things that are the same?  Is the actual surf/wake experience really that different?

 

Next year you'll probably have a walk thru transom, new hull design, NEW WS components (better amps, Rev 10s), 2 piece hull design, less carpet, more billet parts, larger ballast hard tanks, PNP that measures like the MXZ line, possibly larger props, a heavier boat so you need less ballast weight, and a few other things I'm sure.  That to me would be worth waiting 1 more year to upgrade.   Again, that's my personal opinion.

 

 

 

13 new features is not considered much of a change????? (engine, trans, vinyl, tower, windshield, surf tabs, PnP upgrade -- whats left????) I guess we have different expectations.  How many other makers (Supra, MC, Nautique, MB) have 13 changes in a boat in two years?  Ah....zero I am aware of.   And yes, decals are an upgrade imo, new fresh look.  Go out and buy the $650 decals for your 2014... they are not cheap.  Will the experience change behind the boat?  Ah, prob not much other than a much better power plant...wake transfers might be a little easier with the hydraulic surf tabs which open and close a little quicker than the LENCOs.   I also hope that walk thru transom never happens on the VLX or LSV, that would be a mistake imo.  I also prefer the carpeted seat bases over fiberglass, just looks more plush to me.  I could see a few extra add ons (center rear flip around seating) next year.

We must have different sources, mine told me nothing "major" was in the works for the LSV next year including a 17" prop which is not happening.

edit: oh yea, also forgot drain plug sensors.... a must! 

Edited October 22, 2016 by Fman

[tjklein]

48 minutes ago, Fman said:

13 new features is not considered much of a change????? (engine, trans, vinyl, tower, windshield, surf tabs, PnP upgrade -- whats left????) I guess we have different expectations.  How many other makers (Supra, MC, Nautique, MB) have 13 changes in a boat in two years?  Ah....zero I am aware of.   And yes, decals are an upgrade imo, new fresh look.  Go out and buy the $650 decals for your 2014... they are not cheap.  Will the experience change behind the boat?  Ah, prob not much other than a much better power plant...wake transfers might be a little easier with the hydraulic surf tabs which open and close a little quicker than the LENCOs.   I also hope that walk thru transom never happens on the VLX or LSV, that would be a mistake imo.  I also prefer the carpeted seat bases over fiberglass, just looks more plush to me.  I could see a few extra add ons (center rear flip around seating) next year.

We must have different sources, mine told me nothing "major" was in the works for the LSV next year including a 17" prop which is not happening.

edit: oh yea, also forgot drain plug sensors.... a must! 

I don't think the 17" prop will happen either.  I don't like how steep the prop angle is.  Anyway, it's a good debate on what to do.  There are differences between 15-17, but most people won't notice them.  I was giving my opinion on what I would do.   I see you and IXFE's points on it and totally respect them.  There is something nice about a full sun pad.  Perhaps a filler cushion that hooks/latches in is the answer.

 

The real question is what 4 boats are coming to market next year if one of them is not the 23?   What are the oldest boats in the Malibu/Axis lineup right now?  I think the T22 and the 23 are in the 4 oldest aren't they?  The VTX, VLX, Response, 25, MXZs, A22, A24, and T23 are all newer hull designs I believe.  If it's the #1 selling boat you'd think they'd be on top of it.

 

[powderjay]

Thanks guys solid advice all around.  Sales guy has not gotten back with me in a few days.. maybe he reads the forums?!?   I think I will pull the trigger If I can get his number a little lower to my liking.  Otherwise there is always next year.

[Fman]

18 hours ago, tjklein said:

I don't think the 17" prop will happen either.  I don't like how steep the prop angle is.  Anyway, it's a good debate on what to do.  There are differences between 15-17, but most people won't notice them.  I was giving my opinion on what I would do.   I see you and IXFE's points on it and totally respect them.  There is something nice about a full sun pad.  Perhaps a filler cushion that hooks/latches in is the answer.

 

The real question is what 4 boats are coming to market next year if one of them is not the 23?   What are the oldest boats in the Malibu/Axis lineup right now?  I think the T22 and the 23 are in the 4 oldest aren't they?  The VTX, VLX, Response, 25, MXZs, A22, A24, and T23 are all newer hull designs I believe.  If it's the #1 selling boat you'd think they'd be on top of it.

 

Guess it is a moot point for me, I am going all in on a 2017 regardless, even splurging for the G4 w/quads.  Wont surprise me a bit if they have the reversible seat next year in 2018 seeing as that is the one option I would really like to have  I will give props to Malibu, they seem to always be coming out with new upgrades every year, much more than other wake boat makers.

[powderjay]

Doesn't look like this deal is going down.  About 25 grand difference is the best they can do.  A little too much for 2 short seasons on the water.  Will revisit next year. 

[powderjay]

Well dealer countered,, came down to 22,440 otd.   Was at 25 and change otd.    Think I may pull the trigger if the same free storage and layup for 3 yrs is included. 

[hethj7]

Is that just the Malibu rebate they rolled out? I guess it doesn't matter where the $ comes from but that me be all from the factory vs the dealer doing anything more.  

[The Hulk]

I just got an email on the other 25 I was considering and dealer said bu rolled out a $3500 rebate.. 

[granddaddy55]

Did I hear surf tabs?, replacing surfgate?  I'm a big fan of old NSS, especially for transfers, they have us beat on that one and clean wave with no adjustments, the ramp does affect cleanliness of wave but much more the shape , 2013 is 2 second changes with full wave in 3.5 to 4, maybe that's why they licensed out surfgate?

[granddaddy55]

17 minutes ago, The Hulk said:

I just got an email on the other 25 I was considering and dealer said bu rolled out a $3500 rebate.. 

Tell him that and another 10 grand and he can have his check tomorrow! Do it by mail with a cashiers check and a letter with options list for $10000.00 down payment and don't answer his calls or emails except to say, accept my offer, then we talk.  even on ordered boats they love real in advance money, figure out what 2 features you can do without or do your self to be prepared to negotiate if necessary, they have to know you'll pass if they don't budge.

[The Hulk]

1 hour ago, granddaddy55 said:

Tell him that and another 10 grand and he can have his check tomorrow! Do it by mail with a cashiers check and a letter with options list for $10000.00 down payment and don't answer his calls or emails except to say, accept my offer, then we talk.  even on ordered boats they love real in advance money, figure out what 2 features you can do without or do your self to be prepared to negotiate if necessary, they have to know you'll pass if they don't budge.

Ha I doubt they would budge.. I walked previously...black gold flake.. http://www.mainchannel.com/m/showcase_unit.htm?id=1328879&status=2

Dizzzang just read the email they lowered from about 128 when I was looking and walked.. to 108k and from what it sounds 3500rebate off that so like 104.5-105k ..

I got way more on trade in from the other place and that's why I didn't get this one...plus I liked a few if the upgrades and trailer and colors on mine..

doesn't have the fancy trailer like mine but many of the options.. and seadeck floor.. seems like a crazy deal with a G4 ! Better jump on it!! 25s are a bit big around here my guess is I doubt they will order one for inventory this year but could be wrong... 

My only issue is I don't like yellow but must say the flake yellow and black is the best yellow I have seen to date on a boat... But for 104-105k that's a steal!

Edited November 1, 2016 by The Hulk

[DarkSide]

4 hours ago, The Hulk said:

Ha I doubt they would budge.. I walked previously...black gold flake.. http://www.mainchannel.com/m/showcase_unit.htm?id=1328879&status=2

Dizzzang just read the email they lowered from about 128 when I was looking and walked.. to 108k and from what it sounds 3500rebate off that so like 104.5-105k ..

I got way more on trade in from the other place and that's why I didn't get this one...plus I liked a few if the upgrades and trailer and colors on mine..

doesn't have the fancy trailer like mine but many of the options.. and seadeck floor.. seems like a crazy deal with a G4 ! Better jump on it!! 25s are a bit big around here my guess is I doubt they will order one for inventory this year but could be wrong... 

My only issue is I don't like yellow but must say the flake yellow and black is the best yellow I have seen to date on a boat... But for 104-105k that's a steal!

You cant buy a used 25 for that!  105 would be a steal

[The Hulk]

1 hour ago, DarkSide said:

You cant buy a used 25 for that!  105 would be a steal

umm yea... i know....i think they are dropping it, either its too big for around here or the colors...

but a freakin steal with a G4 with Quad Rev8s & PTMS !!!!!

There you go @granddaddy55

Edited November 1, 2016 by The Hulk

[DarkSide]

Sometimes its the colors. ..my dealer has a 2014 24MXZ  with 24 hours on it.   It is Fugly yellow and grey flake. ..they have had it for almost a year.   currently asking $85k  i have little doubt they would take any offer remotely close to dump that thing

[kerpluxal]

2018 should be a new hull design,, wait a year?

[The Hulk]

I personally HATE yellow with a passion... The black helps a lot... Yellow and white is bad.. yellow flake is at least better...still.. I would never do it as I feel resale is bad because maybe I'm odd but it is strange that every yellow boat I've seen at dealers never sells until they dump it... although that's the best one I've seen so far... I am superstitious and believe that  yellow and not selling are directly related in my experience.. haha

 

[The Hulk]

4 hours ago, kerpluxal said:

2018 should be a new hull design,, wait a year?

Think of the price increase with a new hull... May jump to m235 level. Or jump up like mxzs did.. I don't see any game changers forthcoming.. maybe slightly higher hull and more factory ballast for a ton more is my guess.. as far as mfg goes they need to. Be a year ahead generally so 2018 tech is being developed now.. so it can be tested a while before going into production...2017 stuff was finished last yr.. (for major stuff this is generally the case)

Plus will they revamp axis line soon as well? I'm sure the Ri 237/257 waves are on their radar though...

I'll wait for the 27lsv with 10ft beam and twins...

Edited November 2, 2016 by The Hulk

[DarkSide]

1 hour ago, The Hulk said:

 

Plus will they revamp axis line soon as well? I'm sure the Ri 237/257 waves are on their radar though...

I don't know,  Malibu is really focused on market share,  the masses are happy with stock 23LSV wave, no bow bag, nothing.    They are in a commanding lead in product placement right now.  The 23 LSV is way less than an RI237, G23, X23, etc.  The 25LSV is more in line, basically same price as RI257, but way less than G25, or even G23.  

They have the best dash, the best tower, and best price point.  i think they will be very careful maintaining this trifecta of success.  Now if the masses start demanding more from the wave and/or the RI takes off and gets even close to G numbers in terms of sales, then they will take notice.   But in 2017 there are less than 50 build slots for 257.  i dont think that is enough to scare Malibu into anything...

Edited November 2, 2016 by DarkSide