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Squirrely

Dual 10" Sub Box for T22

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Squirrely

So I am upgrading the sub in the boat. I bought a 12w3v3 to throw in the boat, but then I remembered that I had two 10w1v2 subs sitting around. When I ran the subs I had them in a ported box in my car and they pounded. I am now entertaining the idea of making a dual ported box for the 10's, but of course trying to work around my space issue. I measured the space available under the helm and I have 26.5" wide and 22" of height right where the sub is mounted now. Then I have about 17" of depth to the hoses and about a 17" wide space right in front of the hoses.

I designed the boxes to have 1.5 cubic feet of air each (JL requires 1.25)

I don't know a whole lot about stereos, but I came up with the port sizes and everything from doing research online. I just know how much the two 10's rocked in the car so thought it might be an option for the boat.

Couple of questions,

What do you guys think about two 10's versus one 12?

What do you think about the box designs and if they will actually fit?

Dual%2010%20Sub%20Box_zps1lzgufi2.jpg

Base%20Box_zpsfjl5nfx2.jpg

Dual%2010%20Sub%20Box%20Exploded_zpsgdna

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MLA

Why make 2 individual enclosures, is that the only way to get the setup actually placed under the helm? One enclosure with one tuned port, to house both woofers. Should reduce the gross dimensions.  

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Squirrely
2 hours ago, MLA said:

Why make 2 individual enclosures, is that the only way to get the setup actually placed under the helm? One enclosure with one tuned port, to house both woofers. Should reduce the gross dimensions.  

I was under the impression that for ported boxes each sub needed to have their own chamber and port so for that I have not thought about doing it that way.

If doing one enclosure do you still account for volume as two separate enclosures? So I would still be aiming for a 3 cubic foot enclosure?

What is your take on the dual 10w1v2 vs single 12w3v3. The both systems would be powered at a total of 500 W. Dual 10s would be in series

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MLA

http://www.jlaudio.com/cp210-w0v3-car-audio-basswedge-93265

http://www.kicker.com/43DCWR102

Its all in the math for internal volume, port length and port area. All 3 areas need to factor in thats for 2 woofers. 

1 hour ago, Squirrely said:

What is your take on the dual 10w1v2 vs single 12w3v3. The both systems would be powered at a total of 500 W. Dual 10s would be in series

Both setups unit a ported enclosure and driven by the same wattage, the dual 10" win in output. *

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David

Yes, you would combine the two enclosures for less total external displacement. Same net internal as the combined sum. Same port length. Twice the port surface area (not twice the diameter).

You cannot run the internal port termination that close to the rear surface. You need an elbow.

The two 10" have a 1/3rd increase in surface area advantage over the single 12". For bass, versus fullrange content, that's enough to make an audible difference. However, you are not comparing woofers of the same series. The W3 12" has better efficiency in several aspects and more Xmax excursion. So I would simplify this and run the single 12W3 sub.   

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Squirrely
22 hours ago, David said:

Yes, you would combine the two enclosures for less total external displacement. Same net internal as the combined sum. Same port length. Twice the port surface area (not twice the diameter).

You cannot run the internal port termination that close to the rear surface. You need an elbow.

The two 10" have a 1/3rd increase in surface area advantage over the single 12". For bass, versus fullrange content, that's enough to make an audible difference. However, you are not comparing woofers of the same series. The W3 12" has better efficiency in several aspects and more Xmax excursion. So I would simplify this and run the single 12W3 sub.   

Thanks for the input David. I was unsure of the 12W3 vs 10w1 comparison so thanks for clarifying that. Looking over box designs and comparing the subs to one another I'm definitely going with the 12.

With that being said, should I just go off of JL's specs for a ported enclosure?

I've also been seeing some 12w6v3's popping up on Craigslist in my area for decent prices. Would a w6 and w3 be able to perform out of the same box or is a different design needed?

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David

At one time the 12" W6v2 and W3 were close enough in parameters that they could exchange enclosures. But with the new W6v3 the two are very different.

With 500 watts I would probably stick with the 12W3. 600 watts (JL Audio XD600/1) for a 10W6. 750 watts (JL Audio HD750/1) for a 12W6.  

Yes, if possible, follow the JL Audio recommended enclosure design to the letter. Their design software and analysis are way above the pack.  

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Squirrely
22 hours ago, David said:

At one time the 12" W6v2 and W3 were close enough in parameters that they could exchange enclosures. But with the new W6v3 the two are very different.

With 500 watts I would probably stick with the 12W3. 600 watts (JL Audio XD600/1) for a 10W6. 750 watts (JL Audio HD750/1) for a 12W6.  

Yes, if possible, follow the JL Audio recommended enclosure design to the letter. Their design software and analysis are way above the pack.  

This is what I had came up with from reviews of people's experiences with the 12w3v3 on some online car audio forums. I used the RE Audio calculator. It takes up pretty much all the space I have without going to an angled design like my first design for the dual 10's. I will try and see what I can come up with for getting the same volume and frequency tune for the port from the JL specs. Unfortunately I can't fit their dimensions for a box in the area under the helm.1F77DD49-0239-4780-9EBC-CA0B738CF350_zps0E99B4B9-619A-43C9-8B01-83186FF58F0C_zps

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Squirrely

So this is what I came up with to be as close as I could get to JL's specs. Since the port is to long for the width of the box do I just make a corner and extend it along the right side?Screen%20Shot%202016-10-22%20at%209.51.3Screen%20Shot%202016-10-22%20at%209.51.2

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shawndoggy

@Squirrely -- email JL support with your question and your enclosure measurement restrictions.  It might take them 4-5 days to get back to you but when they to you'll be very impressed because they will actually give you a complete box design.  

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Squirrely
5 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

@Squirrely -- email JL support with your question and your enclosure measurement restrictions.  It might take them 4-5 days to get back to you but when they to you'll be very impressed because they will actually give you a complete box design.  

@shawndoggy

Thanks for the insight, I will definitely shoot them an email. That would be awesome to get a box design straight from them.

I saw your thread on the axis forum about the 12w6v2 box. With a width of 20 inches on that box were you planning on raising the box off the ground to avoid some of the angle of the wall on the right side made from the bow? When I measured back there I think it was a width of 15" plus the tape measure located right in front of the square hole

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shawndoggy

yeah... if raised off the floor the box would've worked fine.  Unfortunately I opted for the factory heater which messed up my height (hot tubes are mounted high in the walkway) which I didn't know when I built the box (before the boat arrived).

But the box sounds fabulous!  It's doing work in my truck for now.

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Squirrely
3 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

yeah... if raised off the floor the box would've worked fine.  Unfortunately I opted for the factory heater which messed up my height (hot tubes are mounted high in the walkway) which I didn't know when I built the box (before the boat arrived).

But the box sounds fabulous!  It's doing work in my truck for now.

How high up were you planning on raising it to clear? Just use some rubber spacers screwed through the floor?

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AzBu

I used this http://dbdynamixaudio.com/category/calculators/

Built an Off Axis Slot port for a RF T1 10" I had sitting around. The site has multiple build options and does all the math to include what size you need to cut each section for the build. Nice to be able to plan out your box for the best tuning possible. I may only have one 10" in the boat but it is plenty loud.

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Squirrely
On 10/24/2016 at 1:05 AM, AzBu said:

I used this http://dbdynamixaudio.com/category/calculators/

Built an Off Axis Slot port for a RF T1 10" I had sitting around. The site has multiple build options and does all the math to include what size you need to cut each section for the build. Nice to be able to plan out your box for the best tuning possible. I may only have one 10" in the boat but it is plenty loud.

I checked out that website it looks like a solid place for calculations. I will definitely keep it in mind if I need to do some calcs again. Thanks to Shawn's suggestion JL is actually helping me out with the box

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Squirrely

@David I recently picked up 4 Skylon Vector 8 towers for a really good price. I want to run dual JL HD750/1 amps for the 4 speakers. They are 4-ohm speakers rated at 300 W. 

How do you suggest I wire these up? I am planning on rewiring the tower with 14awg wire. Since the amps would internally wire two speakers to parallel anyways, should I just wire one pair as parallel and connect them into one terminal on their own separate amps to keep wiring through the tower at a minimum. Or should I just run wiring up to the tower for each speaker and let the amp handle the internal parallel connection?

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David

Either way. Run 4 total conductors of 12-gauge and parallel at the top, or run 8 total conductors of 14-gauge and use both terminals of both amplifiers.

Given the strictly regulated nature of those amplifiers, that is a ton of power for 8-inch drivers. You'll need a good set-up and tune plus some usage discipline. It should sound great.

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Squirrely

Okay I think for ease of running wire through the tower I am going to run 4 total conductors of 12 gauge.

I know it's a lot of power... Is there a way when tuning the system to actually limit the power output of the amp? So if I were to crank the stereo it wouldn't put out to much power? Do you have any other amp recommendations within the JL line?

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Squirrely

JL got back to me the same day on a enclosure design! Thanks for the heads up on that @shawndoggy

JL 12w3v3-2 sub. Box is 1.86 cubic feet tuned to 31 Hz for anyone looking for designs

Screen%20Shot%202016-10-26%20at%209.04.4

Edited by Squirrely

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Murphy8166

What woofer is that design for?  I have worked with Eric Cole at JL many a time - super nice guy!

IMO - this is why you pay the money for JL. Not many others in the industry that will design a box and using the wacky constraints we all have in a boat.

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Squirrely

It's for a 12w3v3-2. I just updated that post for anyone that stumbles across it.

Eric was great. I'm stoked that he was able to put the port on the top that way I don't have to worry about making a port hole in the kick plate.

I have never not been impressed with the products and customer service from JL

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David

A small suggestion. Rotate the port mouth 90 degrees so it faces out the side. This will not change the port length. Why? No matter how improbable, with an upward facing port mouth, if water were to get into the port it can never drain out and will decompose the enclosure (starting with the seams) from the inside.  

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MLA
16 minutes ago, David said:

A small suggestion. Rotate the port mouth 90 degrees so it faces out the side. This will not change the port length. Why? No matter how improbable, with an upward facing port mouth, if water were to get into the port it can never drain out and will decompose the enclosure (starting with the seams) from the inside.  

i agree. You dont want an upward firing port. Ive tossed an enclosure and woofer that both pointed up. the woofer was rusted motionless with 2-3 water lines around the cone and the box was swollen and soft. 

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Squirrely

Okay so I will rotate it to the right side if looking at the box head on. Or maybe 90 degrees to the left so it's on the bottom of the left side so there isn't so much weight up high.

Thanks for the heads up on that!

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MLA
25 minutes ago, Squirrely said:

Or maybe 90 degrees to the left so it's on the bottom of the left side

My concern there is having the port buried too far behind the facade. You was out some of the gains of doing a ported enclosure. 

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