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cbekken

Fake-a-Lake + Camco 65501 Winterize Fail

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cbekken

After 10 years of paying for winterizing services I decided to give it a go myself.   I have a 2006 Response LXI w/ the Monsoon 340.  After getting the engine to normal operating temp I switched from the pressurized garden hose water to non-pressurized anti-freeze in the tank of the Camco 65501.  This resulted in a significant reduction of water water exiting the exhaust (as expected), but was NOT followed by the flow of antifreeze exiting the exhaust.   While the anti-freeze was clearly flowing out of the Camco tank, it appears that 90% of it was just leaking out where the fake-a-Lake plunger meets the hull.  

I did ensure that there was a quality seal between the Fake-a-lake plunger.  With the understanding that the Fake-a-lake would not create a leak-proof seal I was not surprised that there was some leakage, but was surprise the seemingly no fluid reached the exhaust ports.  I expected the suction of the impeller would pull a majority of the antifreeze into the engine cooling system.  The impeller is new as of July BTW. 

I am now planning another attempt to winterize the engine, and looking for a better method to introduce the anti-freeze as the Fake-a-lake was such a failure.   I'm thinking that hooking the Comco tank directly onto the raw water intake hose (just before the impeller) would be a good option.  To do this I would need to devise a way to connect the male garden hose end of the Camco tank to the 1-1/4" raw water hose.   

Does anyone have a tip for getting the parts to make this connection?   Other option short of building some of the pump based recirculation systems I have seen within the site?

- Chad

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oldjeep

1) Drain all water out of block and heater

2) Remove the 2 large hoses from thermostat housing and pour antifreeze into them.  One of them will wind up dumping out the water inlet on the bottom of the boat, the other will fill the engine through the circulating pump

3) If you have a heater then pour antifreeze in through the upper heater hose.

 

Running antifreeze into a block full of water is a gamble on a cracked block

Edited by oldjeep

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Bill_AirJunky

I always hated those Fake-a-lakes. While I don't use anti-freeze, it's going to be a lot easier to just hook the hose up to the intake hose between the raw water intake & pump.

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minnmarker

You can put a 1-1/4 barb by 1/2 threaded T in the raw water line. Off the 1/2 you can go several ways to your garden hose.  The little hose disconnects are kind of restrictive so I don't use those. 

Close the inlet valve so your water and antifreeze doesn't dump out the bottom.  Warm engine on water, switch to antifreeze and run 4 gallons through system, drain block by pulling plug and knock sensor, and drain exhaust manifolds with Stock disconnect. Done. I've never bothered with pulling hoses but no harm in draining them too.

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gobble
13 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

1) Drain all water out of block and heater

2) Remove the 2 large hoses from thermostat housing and pour antifreeze into them.  One of them will wind up dumping out the water inlet on the bottom of the boat, the other will fill the engine through the circulating pump

 

Interesting. With the VLX I had last year I was simply able to disconnect the intake hose and adapt a new hose that I stuck into a 5 gallon bucket of antifreeze. Worked perfectly after first draining the engine of water. My new VLX has a larger hose that's a bear to get off so I was going to use a bucket of antifreeze on the swim platform draining into a fake a lake. I've heard that works.

Will pouring antifreeze into the thermostat hoses ultimately flow from the exhaust? I assume you do this with the engine off? 

6 minutes ago, Bill_AirJunky said:

I always hated those Fake-a-lakes. While I don't use anti-freeze, it's going to be a lot easier to just hook the hose up to the intake hose between the raw water intake & pump.

Maybe some boats are different, but my boat is plumbed from the raw water intake through the V-drive before the pump.

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minnmarker

Yep, I should have added that for the v drive either flush some antifreeze through by opening inlet valve with engine stopped - or use the drain plug.

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oldjeep
4 minutes ago, gobble said:

Interesting. With the VLX I had last year I was simply able to disconnect the intake hose and adapt a new hose that I stuck into a 5 gallon bucket of antifreeze. Worked perfectly after first draining the engine of water. My new VLX has a larger hose that's a bear to get off so I was going to use a bucket of antifreeze on the swim platform draining into a fake a lake. I've heard that works.

Will pouring antifreeze into the thermostat hoses ultimately flow from the exhaust? I assume you do this with the engine off? 

Maybe some boats are different, but my boat is plumbed from the raw water intake through the V-drive before the pump.

No, pouring antifreeze into the 2 large hoses will not wind up in the exhaust - that is what the 2 small hoses on the thermostat housing do.  I don't dump antifreeze in my exhaust since it fully drains through the "garden hose" disconnect and I'm not trying to prevent any corrosion there.

The pump I am talking about is the engine circulating pump.  The raw water pump is plumbed between the v-drive and the intake.

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gobble

Does this mean you pour antifreeze into those hoses with the engine running?

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oldjeep
1 minute ago, gobble said:

Does this mean you pour antifreeze into those hoses with the engine running?

No.  Engine not running.  Engine off during entire process

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cbekken

Thanks all for the tips! 

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klingsdesigns

The fake a lake sucks.. I ended up cutting my inlet water hose, and put a T in there with a shut off valve and water house connect. I hooked up a small garden hose to a 5 gallon bucket of water and ran it like that. Make sure the bucket stays full. And then when you want to put antifreeze in. I drained everything and then put anti freeze into bucket and ran until it was coming out of exhaust.

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Bill_AirJunky
10 hours ago, gobble said:

Maybe some boats are different, but my boat is plumbed from the raw water intake through the V-drive before the pump.

It still works fine. I pull the hose off the v-drive & stick the hose adapter in there. I can control the water flow from inside the boat, make sure it's actually flowing correctly & it doesn't fall off.

hoseadapter.jpg

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MLA
11 hours ago, cbekken said:

 

After 10 years of paying for winterizing services I decided to give it a go myself.   I have a 2006 Response LXI w/ the Monsoon 340.  After getting the engine to normal operating temp I switched from the pressurized garden hose water to non-pressurized anti-freeze in the tank of the Camco 65501.  This resulted in a significant reduction of water water exiting the exhaust (as expected), but was NOT followed by the flow of antifreeze exiting the exhaust.   While the anti-freeze was clearly flowing out of the Camco tank, it appears that 90% of it was just leaking out where the fake-a-Lake plunger meets the hull. 

 

Besides the obvious, you really dont want to try and flood an engine full of water, with marine antifreeze. Marine antifreeze needs to be used at 100%, not diluted. So, drain engine/power train of all the water, then use the antifreeze. 

Or, just drain all the water. If it gets cold enough for air to freeze, we have gibber issues. 

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gobble

My attempt at drawing antifreeze through a fake a lake tonight also failed. I put a bulkhead into a bucket and ran a hose down from the swim platform into the fake a lake. When we started the engine, the level of antifreeze in the bucket started to lower, but after about a minute no antifreeze out of the exhaust (I hope that didn't hurt the engine). I looked under the boat and antifreeze seemed to be coming out of the hole where the shaft leaves the boat. Strange. Anyway I think my next project is to T into the intake line. I tried removing the hose from both the intake on the bottom of the boat and the V drive intake and neither hose would budge.

 

Edited by gobble

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MLA
19 minutes ago, gobble said:

I looked under the boat and antifreeze seemed to be coming out of the hole where the shaft leaves the boat. Strange.

your boat likely had a dripless seal, which is cooled and lubricated by raw water flow. So any fluid flow into the raw water pickup, would exit the shaft seal area. 

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gobble
Just now, MLA said:

your boat likely had a dripless seal, which is cooled and lubricated by raw water flow. So any fluid flow into the raw water pickup, would exit the shaft seal area. 

Shouldn't some of the antifreeze have also made in into the engine and through the exhaust?

3 hours ago, klingsdesigns said:

I ended up cutting my inlet water hose, and put a T in there with a shut off valve and water house connect.

Where did you find a 1 1/4" barbed (I assume brass) T with a fitting that can be adapted to a water hose coming off it?

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MLA
4 minutes ago, gobble said:

Shouldn't some of the antifreeze have also made in into the engine and through the exhaust?

Where did you find a 1 1/4" barbed (I assume brass) T with a fitting that can be adapted to a water hose coming off it?

it likely did but its so diluted. 

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klingsdesigns
1 hour ago, gobble said:

Shouldn't some of the antifreeze have also made in into the engine and through the exhaust?

Where did you find a 1 1/4" barbed (I assume brass) T with a fitting that can be adapted to a water hose coming off it?

I purchased everything at menards.  All was pvc except hose connection was metal. Wish I would have taken picture. Very cost affective. I stored boat already. 

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gobble
8 hours ago, klingsdesigns said:

I purchased everything at menards.  All was pvc except hose connection was metal. Wish I would have taken picture. Very cost affective. I stored boat already. 

Was it maybe this? A poly fitting?

http://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/rough-plumbing/pipe-tubing-hoses-fittings-accessories/fittings/specialty-fittings/polypipe-insert-fittings/genova-1-1-4-x-1-1-4-x-1-2-pvc-tee-insert-x-insert-x-fip/p-1444431316860-c-13795.htm?tid=4847833808671396983

 

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klingsdesigns
2 hours ago, gobble said:

I got the 6893460 1 1/4 x 1 1/4 x 3/4

I would recommend the swivel hose adaptor. I might change it next year but then it will be a little longer.

6790616 x2

6901319 x1

6890133 x1

6801957 x1

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gobble
13 minutes ago, klingsdesigns said:

I got the 6893460 1 1/4 x 1 1/4 x 3/4

I would recommend the swivel hose adaptor. I might change it next year but then it will be a little longer.

6790616 x2

6901319 x1

6890133 x1

6801957 x1

Thanks! I may buy the T and the hose adapter, along with a 3/4" plug for when in normal use. My boat has a ball valve at the through hull so shut that off, attach hose, insert antifreeze. I'll get that all installed then probably find a reason to buy a newer boat and start all over next year.

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klingsdesigns
Just now, gobble said:

Thanks! I may buy the T and the hose adapter, along with a 3/4" plug for when in normal use. My boat has a ball valve at the through hull so shut that off, attach hose, insert antifreeze. I'll get that all installed then probably find a reason to buy a newer boat and start all over next year.

I bought the plug too. I like having the shutoff by the house fitting. Then it keeps the antifreeze in there.  If you have to unscrew hose without shutting that off i think it would drain out that hole while your trying to put the plug in. 

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gobble
On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 10:31 AM, klingsdesigns said:

I got the 6893460 1 1/4 x 1 1/4 x 3/4

I would recommend the swivel hose adaptor. I might change it next year but then it will be a little longer.

6790616 x2

6901319 x1

6890133 x1

6801957 x1

How the heck did you fit a 1 1/4" T into that hose? I'm finding that a 1" T is way too small but a 1 1/4" T is too big.

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skyskier

The hardware stores have those 3' - 4' sections of rubber hose with hose clamps for making a fast repair to a busted pipe. They even make them as adapters with a different size on each end. They are awesome for making the final connection from garden hose and PVC adapter to raw water intake.

I always disconnect the hose that feeds the dripless shaft seal. A fair amount of anti freeze will be lost there when the engine is running.

I tried fake a lake and dislike it quite a bit. The trailer cross member was in the way. No way to get a good seal. I was desperate so I had to jack up the boat and pull the trailer forward a few inches.

A superior alternative to fake a lake is the Proflushional. It clips to the intake grate and truly seals. No prop rod involved.  I saw a comment here where someone said it is thin and cheap. I have figured out that the rubber cup is thin so that it can mold itself to the shape of the hull using very little pressure. I have one that came with a boat I bought. I have tried to buy another one and cannot find them. If someone has one and thinks it's crap I would love to buy it.

I like the continuous re circulation method because I like to be certain. I bought the expensive WinterFlush kit only to learn the pump is not powerful enough. If the boat has the Perko inline flush kit, the WinterFlush pump cannot push anti freeze through it. Now I use a pool cover pump to move the anti freeze from the collection bucket back to the engine. Fast, efficient, and fool proof.   

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klingsdesigns
1 hour ago, gobble said:

How the heck did you fit a 1 1/4" T into that hose? I'm finding that a 1" T is way too small but a 1 1/4" T is too big.

Funny you say this. I took the 1 1/4 back because i had such a problem getting it in the hose. Saw they only had 1 inch for the next size down.  Went back home with the 1 1/4.  Use lots of dish soap and i got it about half way in. then pressed hose onto concrete and pushed with all my might.  Took a while but it works. While your pushing turn at same time.

Edited by klingsdesigns

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