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Cap305

If you ever have to question whether to pull the engine after getting the oil extractor tube stuck.....

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oldjeep

looking at the damage it sounds more like they fired it up and ran it with no oil in it. Or fired it up with a major oil leak.

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Cap305

OJ, that's what it looks like but what we surmised is that the oil pick up had to be almost completely blocked and that starved everything of oil.  The engine actually started rattling with the second mechanic when he shut it down during his initial test.  

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hethj7

Hate to hear this but I also have had great experiences with Progressive. 

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Sixball

You can see the damage to the side of the bearing. That is not from a lack of oil. The bearing would also show more burning. Once something even plastic is introduced in the bearing it scavenges the oil on the bearing behind it. It also pushed the crank no end play, burning the saddle. I am with mechanic #2.  If I had something that should not be in my pan its coming off if I could not get a scope and remove it somehow. 

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Ndawg12

After you and Progressive get your money back from this clown do you think he'll remain in business?  If so, then I have another question :biggrin:

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Cap305

Ndawg, I sincerely doubt he'll remain in the existing business and am definitely not expecting to collect.  It'll be a nice to have but I'm not holding my breath. 

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malibu2004
18 hours ago, Cap305 said:

So from day one of purchase of my used boat a few years ago the oil drain tube has been clogged and non functional.  I had used the dipstick tube suction many times without issue.  This May though, as I was changing the oil right before planning to head out to the lake I got the tube hopelessly stuck.  Tried everything I could find on this site and elsewhere.  NEVER turned the engine over since I knew what could happen.  Called the local Malibu dealer service dept. in Charlotte and they say minimum of a month before he could tackle the issue.  Fine.  I shopped around a bit and came to an agreement with a "certified marine mechanic" who owned a shop near my old lake who said he could do the work.  He told me "I can lift the engine and just drop the pan and get rid of the debris".  We agreed that he'd do the work and let me know if there were issues.  Two weeks and $975 later he says we were able to get the debris out of there.  (skeptically at this point I SHOULD have called B.S. since there shouldn't have been debris, rather one big piece where they pulled it out.)  He told me they "tilted the engine, removed the drain plug, removed the debris, verified removal with a borescope, changed the oil, and lake tested the boat."  One of his shop workers said they "noticed the oil pressure was acting really funny but the boat ran fine".  On the bill it says what they did with the notation "told customer to monitor oil pressure".  

I got the boat home and noticed what looked to be ALL the oil from the drain/changing process appeared to still be in the bilge.  I checked the oil level in the boat and it was fine.  Called the guy and he said they had tried to absorb as much oil as they could but there may still be some in the bilge, no big deal.  (WTH??)  I soak up the oil with disposable diapers and all seemed to be fine.  Tested the boat on the hose at the house.  No issues with the oil pressure.  Ran fine.  Took it to the lake and it ran pathetically.  Couldn't get it on plane but no oil pressure crazyness.  Took it to a buddy's mechanic who lake tested it and reported that there were some serious issues with the engine.  (stomach punch)  I said please look at it and let me know.  He works with it a bit and ends up calling back to say he thinks something is seriously amiss in the bottom of the engine.  He recommended pulling it so I agreed.  After pulling the engine he finds a piece of congealed plastic roughly the size of a human palm caught up in the pickup tube/screen for the oil sump.  Another blob melted and dried on the windage tray.

Debris_zpsqpdr9saa.jpg

Crank bearings, crank, cam bearings, cam, rod bearings all totally shot.  Even the heads were trashed.  (see pics)

crank%20bearing_zps1uygjl2g.jpg

 

The mechanic says that the oil drain fitting basically fell out as he pulled the engine (not even hand tight).  He and I both suspected that the initial mechanic basically just shoved a rod down the dipstick hole in the block to push the remnants of the tube down into the pan, ran the engine to chop up the pieces, drained the oil (into the bilge) by getting a wrench on the drain fitting and removing it, refilling oil and "lake testing" it. My blood was boiling. At this point options are complete rebuild current or buy new long block.  Went with a replacement 5.7 from Mercury at the to the tune of $3k.  During this entire process I attempted to contact the original mechanic who, of course, won't return my phone calls.  Out of curiosity I contacted my insurance company, Progressive.  They don't immediately laugh at me on the phone so I'm thinking "that's good...I guess".  Couple weeks later, after they took my statement, inspected the remnants of the engine, and talked with the current mechanic they contact me and tell me that my engine work WILL indeed be covered under insurance.  (Picture a grown man doing cartwheels in the living room after the call)  Check for $8k arrived a little over a week later.  Insurance guy says they're going to pursue original mechanic for compensation.  I am also going to pursue legal action for the initial $975 plus wasted 5 months of storage payments.  

Now all this played out over basically the entire summer so the boat is still down but engine should be installed this week.  Glad it's almost over and hopefully can wipe the Summer of 2016 right out of my memory.  I may even get a ride in before I have to winterize it.  

Moral of the story, don't use dipstick siphon.  If you choose to ignore ol CAPs hard earned advice and get the tube stuck make SURE you find a decent mechanic to pull the engine and do the job RIGHT.  

p.s. big PROPS to Progressive.  You guys saved my keister on this one.  

 

 

Man I would be so pissed. 

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Air Tahoe

 

Great post and thanks for sharing. But. I am confused. How did the oil suction tube get stuck and where was it located when out got stuck? Is this something I should be very careful about? 

Normally I drain what I can from the oil drain hose (super slow) then suction the rest from the oil level dipstick opening (Is there where it got stuck)? 

Maybe it is not worth suctioning the last 1/2 quart of oil after reading this post. 

 

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oldjeep
9 hours ago, Air Tahoe said:

 

Great post and thanks for sharing. But. I am confused. How did the oil suction tube get stuck and where was it located when out got stuck? Is this something I should be very careful about? 

Normally I drain what I can from the oil drain hose (super slow) then suction the rest from the oil level dipstick opening (Is there where it got stuck)? 

Maybe it is not worth suctioning the last 1/2 quart of oil after reading this post. 

 

why are you.not getting the last .5 quart from the pan drain?. Between filter and pan hose we get 5.5 out of all 4 engines so far this year. Have been using the suction pump on the drain lines this year, mine is usually gravity drained overnight.

Edited by oldjeep

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Air Tahoe
4 hours ago, oldjeep said:

why are you.not getting the last .5 quart from the pan drain?. Between filter and pan hose we get 5.5 out of all 4 engines so far this year. Have been using the suction pump on the drain lines this year, mine is usually gravity drained overnight.

 

Because we don't have overnight to drain the oil. Our boat is not located at our house. It is far away. Need to do an oil change on the spot. We warm up the engine on the lake, pull the boat out, and the oil drains super super slow. So we suction the rest of it out from the dipstick or drain hose to get the job done in a reasonable amount of time so we can drive home 4hrs. Never enough time to get everything done that we would like to. Does that make sense or are we doing it wrong? 

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oldjeep

if you need to suction then do it all from the drain hose. Get a fitting for your pump that screws onto the stock drain line. It gets all oil out without the danger of snapping off the skinny lune inside the engine.

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Cap305
21 hours ago, Air Tahoe said:

 

Great post and thanks for sharing. But. I am confused. How did the oil suction tube get stuck and where was it located when out got stuck? Is this something I should be very careful about? 

Normally I drain what I can from the oil drain hose (super slow) then suction the rest from the oil level dipstick opening (Is there where it got stuck)? 

Maybe it is not worth suctioning the last 1/2 quart of oil after reading this post. 

 

The tube I used was designed to drop into the pan through the dipstick tube for suctioning purposes.  I'm guessing it got caught on the windage tray somewhere.  If you're suctioning from the top of the dipstick and not inserting anything into the engine I wouldn't think there'd be an issue.  My vacuum pump was designed to dip the hose though.  

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minnmarker
1 hour ago, oldjeep said:

if you need to suction then do it all from the drain hose. Get a fitting for your pump that screws onto the stock drain line. It gets all oil out without the danger of snapping off the skinny lune inside the engine.

That's what I did yesterday. With warm oil it takes about 1 minute. You can use the same suction tank you use with the dipstick tube, just different connections and larger diameter tubing.

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Dare2goBare

Wow. ...All I can say is, What a horror story, and the loss of the summer, I'd be right pived off too! For a lack of better words.... $#@&*#$/&.   Glad to hear your insurance is pulling

through for you and you've got yourself a new block.  Here's to a great next season for you! :thumbup:

 :cheers:

Edited by Dare2goBare

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Air Tahoe
10 hours ago, oldjeep said:

if you need to suction then do it all from the drain hose. Get a fitting for your pump that screws onto the stock drain line. It gets all oil out without the danger of snapping off the skinny lune inside the engine.

 

Oh! That is really good to know. I always just shoved the vacuum line down into the dipstick tube. The Oil Boy is designed to do so. I've done it probably 20 times now between the Malibu and our PWC's and never had a problem. The suction lines also have metal built into them. But after hearing this horror story I don't see the reason to risk it. Just get an adapter like you said. Although, I just googled it and I don't see any easy screw on adapters. Might have to rig something. 

 

Oil Boy extractor: https://www.amazon.com/Tempo-Oil-Boy-Fluid-Extractor/dp/B0000BYP0L

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oldjeep
3 hours ago, Air Tahoe said:

 

Oh! That is really good to know. I always just shoved the vacuum line down into the dipstick tube. The Oil Boy is designed to do so. I've done it probably 20 times now between the Malibu and our PWC's and never had a problem. The suction lines also have metal built into them. But after hearing this horror story I don't see the reason to risk it. Just get an adapter like you said. Although, I just googled it and I don't see any easy screw on adapters. Might have to rig something. 

 

Oil Boy extractor: https://www.amazon.com/Tempo-Oil-Boy-Fluid-Extractor/dp/B0000BYP0L

the adaper i used was a 1/4 hose barb to 1/4 fpt that I got at home depot for a couple bucks.

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Air Tahoe
25 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

the adaper i used was a 1/4 hose barb to 1/4 fpt that I got at home depot for a couple bucks.

Perfect. Thank you!!! 

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