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DirtCity

Surf Gate

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DirtCity

Hi All,

If you want to surf about 80% of the time (will still wakeboard / Wake skate, pull tube, etc.), how big of a deal is pre 2013 23 LSVs without surfgate? Is it really just the ability to switch sides, or does it improve the wake to a point that it dramatically cuts down on setup time? It has been about 8 years since I owned my last Malibu, so don't really need all of the bling and new electronics.  It will be fairly easy for me to go demo a Malibu with Surf Gate, but not so easy for me to demo one that doesn't have it.  I am in the market for used, especially given what appears to be a pretty hefty price hike on the 2017 Axis boats.  It is just unclear to me how difficult it is to get a surf wave setup on a pre 2013 model. I have younger kids that will want to try it out, along with folks that will want a modified (less aggressive wave). 

 

Any info or feedback would be great.  Thanks all!

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Stevo

I'll say it #gamechanger

so here is he deal, you can get a great wave / wake out of a pre-post surfgate boat but there will be pros and cons

for "Me" the pro's on surfgate are

1. The boat is weighted evenly and not listed to the side(wife never was comfortable driving this way) 

2.We have both goofy and regular riders so ease of switching sides.

3 push button and go

cons i really only have 1, price. But being 2 years into our purchase, I'd do it again, and hope to do it agin soon.

ill let someone with a pre 13'  boat take the lead on pro's and cons as I jumped from 01' vlx to a 14' and don't have a ton of experience on the 08-12 years

 

Edited by Stevo

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DirtCity

Stevo, thanks. Having to the list the boat and drive is definitely a concern of mine. Not sure my wife would be comfortable with that either. The price is why I am asking. There seems to be a decent jump between pre 2013 and post 2013, which must be related to that upgrade.  Thanks for the response and information. I appreciate it. 

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Lance B. Johnson

It is not difficult at all to get a good wave out of a pre surfgate boat, but it is sensitive.  That is to say I have heard a lot of people complain about the quality of the wave, and then you hear how they are setting their boat up, and it becomes obvious why.

When a malibu is listed properly, I actually much prefer the wave over surfgate.  IMHO the surfgate waves are soft and flat, and this is most noticeable on the regular side.

I could have bought a '13 LSV, but instead got an '11 and plumbed it with a custom bag for the regular side.  I run maybe 2/3rds of the weight as some of the surfgate guys, didn't have to ugrade my prop, and I have plenty of storage in my starboard locker because I don't have to ballast that side.

Also:  Like Stevo said, if you have goofy and regular riders surfgate is hard to beat.

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DirtCity

@Lance B. Johnson Thanks for the info.  What is your actual 2011 23 LSV surf setup? Have you already posted it on the forum? If so, I can try to find it. 

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minnmarker

Install your own gates or get an aftermarket system. Just search TMC.

Gates are good!

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Lance B. Johnson
4 minutes ago, DirtCity said:

@Lance B. Johnson Thanks for the info.  What is your actual 2011 23 LSV surf setup? Have you already posted it on the forum? If so, I can try to find it. 

No problem.

 

All factory ballast full.

1 custom sack that runs from the rear locker up to the observers seat.  approx 1400#

500# lead distributed evenly

Full wedge

13 mph

 

Also my experience with heavily weighted SG boats is that they don't drive any easier.  They are still an absolute pig in the water at low speeds.  JMHO.

Edited by Lance B. Johnson

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Lance B. Johnson
2 minutes ago, DirtCity said:

@minnmarker What is TMC? 

The Malibu Crew!  Haha.

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racer808

My two cents:  You're gonna get a better with surfgate because the extra weight in the non surf side.  It will also lengthen your play pocket.  You can buy pre 2013 & get a suck gate which works great or just spend the money now, it will help with resale

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Fman
1 hour ago, DirtCity said:

Hi All,

If you want to surf about 80% of the time (will still wakeboard / Wake skate, pull tube, etc.), how big of a deal is pre 2013 23 LSVs without surfgate? Is it really just the ability to switch sides, or does it improve the wake to a point that it dramatically cuts down on setup time? It has been about 8 years since I owned my last Malibu, so don't really need all of the bling and new electronics.  It will be fairly easy for me to go demo a Malibu with Surf Gate, but not so easy for me to demo one that doesn't have it.  I am in the market for used, especially given what appears to be a pretty hefty price hike on the 2017 Axis boats.  It is just unclear to me how difficult it is to get a surf wave setup on a pre 2013 model. I have younger kids that will want to try it out, along with folks that will want a modified (less aggressive wave). 

 

Any info or feedback would be great.  Thanks all!

With younger kids, who will more than likely bring there friends I would really recommend a Surfgate boat.  The ability to switch sides immediately is a huge bonus when you have a larger group of riders.  Aside from what @stevo already mentioned on all the SF pro's you can also do wake transfers with a surfgate boat, it adds some fun to surfing being able to surf on either side of the wave at the touch of a button.  For 95% of the surfers out there the SG wave is more than adequate.  Not to mention resale on a surfgate boat is much better.

Edited by Fman

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CFH

I have surfed a 2015 surfgate boat and a 2008 with the delta and honestly man... theirs no huge difference.  Now a pro or avid surfer, yes they will know a difference.  I currently have a 01 WS and use a suckgate(suction cup gate) and its 5-8 seconds putting it on and double for switching sides.  You can save your self a butt load of money going with a pre 2013 model and doing the suction gate style.  Just my .02.  

Edited by CFH

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Stevo

@DirtCity where do u live?

there is probably a Member in your area with a SG boat, or hit up a dealer for a demo

also what is your budget?

Edited by Stevo

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jcon44

Get an older pre-Surfgate boat and add a system to it, I bought wakemakers surf control. I was driving myself crazy moving weight, water and people around the boat to get a good wave and change sides. I was contemplating getting into a new boat but now don't really see a reason to. I spent 4k to save allot more by keeping my boat for a few more years. :)

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minnmarker
3 hours ago, DirtCity said:

@minnmarker What is TMC? 

Several people in the forum have used @martinarchers control system and installed their own surf gates. I did it on a 2005 LSV. If you're reasonably good at DIY and take your time you can add them to any boat.

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The Hulk

my friend has a 2012 22MX and gets a decent wave, he added a suck gate (one of them i forget now) but it made a huge difference and its much better now, but still not on par with a SG boat.  you can pick up a suck gate in the $200 range now, although its a PIA compared to a Surf Gate boat and a switch. also most of the suck gates are a lot smaller than the surf gates. Surf Gats are more effective than suck gates. Resale will be far better with a surf gate boat 2013: it makes a big difference IMO and is the reason you can always find a great deal on a 2012 and prior year boat compared to a 2013....there is a reason....

 

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DirtCity
8 hours ago, Stevo said:

@DirtCity where do u live?

there is probably a Member in your area with a SG boat, or hit up a dealer for a demo

also what is your budget?

@Stevo I live in Eastern WA on the Columbia River (Tri-Cities).  I have struggled with budget, been floating around the high 60s - low 70s. Not sure I can get what I want for that or not. Lots of good advice from all on this topic. I figured there would be different thoughts on what would be the best. I would like to keep the boat for a while, or at least that is the plan. 

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Stevo
5 minutes ago, DirtCity said:

@Stevo I live in Eastern WA on the Columbia River (Tri-Cities).  I have struggled with budget, been floating around the high 60s - low 70s. Not sure I can get what I want for that or not. Lots of good advice from all on this topic. I figured there would be different thoughts on what would be the best. I would like to keep the boat for a while, or at least that is the plan. 

Lol, I forgot we Pm'd on this

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DirtCity
Just now, Stevo said:

Lol, I forgot we Pm'd on this

 

Just now, Stevo said:

Lol, I forgot we Pm'd on this

haha No worries. Probably over analyzing the options, just hard when you can't go see a bunch first hand. All the info the folks on this forum have provided has been awesome and very informative. 

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ConnollyCrew
22 minutes ago, DirtCity said:

@Stevo I live in Eastern WA on the Columbia River (Tri-Cities).  I have struggled with budget, been floating around the high 60s - low 70s. Not sure I can get what I want for that or not. Lots of good advice from all on this topic. I figured there would be different thoughts on what would be the best. I would like to keep the boat for a while, or at least that is the plan. 

You should be able too find a 13 LSV in the low 70's. I am selling a pimped out 15 for 82

SG, 100%

Edited by ConnollyCrew

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hethj7

Since the OP mentioned he doesn't really care for all the bells and whistles, don't rule out Axis.   You can pick up a 2016 T23 in your budget that would have surfgates and a 5 year warranty.   Franky, I'd go with a surfgate boat based on ease of setup since you describe small kids and a wife that may not want to deal with a listed boat.   I'm out with small kids all the time and SG makes it so much easier to maximize our riding time from the kids on a ZUP to surfing and then back to the EZ Ski.    The only downside of Axis functionally is you can't get the Power Wedge 2 on them, which is nice for changing the shape of the wave and getting on plane using the lift feature when wake boarding or just cruising for that matter.  


Certainly you can make great waves without surfgate and you can save money adding Go Surf Assist, Suck gates, Martin Archer's systems, integrated ballast, etc., etc. to a non-SG boat.   But, it's tough to argue with the ease of just jumping in a SG boat, hitting a few buttons and surfing.   

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UpperleftWake
2 hours ago, DirtCity said:

@Stevo I live in Eastern WA on the Columbia River (Tri-Cities).  I have struggled with budget, been floating around the high 60s - low 70s. Not sure I can get what I want for that or not. Lots of good advice from all on this topic. I figured there would be different thoughts on what would be the best. I would like to keep the boat for a while, or at least that is the plan. 

If you're ever in the PDX and want to grab a set behind a Surf Gate equipped boat, just lemme know... I have a few different options where I work ;).

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DirtCity
50 minutes ago, UpperleftWake said:

If you're ever in the PDX and want to grab a set behind a Surf Gate equipped boat, just lemme know... I have a few different options where I work ;).

Cut me a deal on the '14 LSV and I might have a quick decision :). 

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DirtCity
10 minutes ago, -BS- said:

A few thoughts;

-initial "setup time" is a function of automated ballast, not whether you list your boat or use a surf system.  That said, most SG boats will come with 'plug and play' ballast bags....so it's already automated.  However, many guys have done the same thing in boats that they are listing.  Automating the ballast on a boat like that would run roughly 2k (ish).

-I think at this point it's generally agreed that listed boats give you a better wave than the surf systems BUT, depending on skill level, you might not even care. Meaning; a Surfgate wave might be totally fine for you. It is for a lot of people.

- surfgate waves will actually require more weight to achieve the same size wave (because you're having to ballast both sides)

-if you're switching sides a lot, surfgate is a HUGE advantage.  No contest there.

-ballasting a listed boat isn't difficult to figure out, especially given all the testimonials here

- given the fact you're talking about young kids learning, etc.. I honestly think you'd be happier with a Surfgate boat.  It's simple and easy.  Just make sure you ride the wave first so you know what you're buying.

Good luck with the purchase!!

 

Thanks man. That makes sense. Definitely leaning towards one with SG for the kiddos. 

Edited by DirtCity

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Fffrank

I spent all summer looking for a 2013+ 23LSV for <$60k.  

 

I actually offered this dealership $60k in June (when they first took it in on trade.)  They were "firm" on their price of $72k.

 

And now?  It's for sale for $60k!  Would be a perfect buy for you....  https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/bod/5801666849.html

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