2017 M235

[Zac]

Something almost everyone overlooks when it comes to resale value is inflation.  Especially in cases where you hold on to a large purchase over a long period of time.  It compounds on itself and can add up quick.  When you look at housing in most parts of North America, over the long term, it trends really close to inflation (slightly above).  

Let's take a look at what inflation does to your boat over a 10 year period using a long term average at 3% for inflation.

Original purchase price 10 years ago: $30, 000.00 

Sale price today: $30, 000.00

Original purchase price adjusted for inflation: $40, 317.49 (10 years compounded at 3% inflation)

Actual loss on investment: $10, 317.49 (or just over 25%)

Most people don't break even when they sell their boats.  So if you sell your $30, 000.00 boat for $20, 000.00, the use of that boat has cost you more than 50% of your initial investment in real money purchase power.  

Running the same numbers on a $100, 000.00 boat that you've kept for 10 years gives you an actual real money purchase price today of $134, 391.64 or a loss of over $34, 000.00 dollars if you are somehow able to sell that same boat for the same price you paid for it 10 years ago.  

Essentially if boats increase an average of 3% annually, assuming inflation goes up at the same rate, they aren't actually going up in price in terms of purchasing power.  However, if they increase more than inflation, which they seem to have been doing over the last decade or so (although I'm no expert in long term boat prices), then there will typically be a return to the long term mean... Eventually...  

Factor in the long term loans and historically low interest rates and there could definitely be a correction.  Timing this correction is like trying to time the stock market and I'd refer to that as a fools game.

[tjklein]

Seriously, boat and investment should not be used in the same sentence!  No one is ever going to justify owning a boat on 'paper'.  Of course no one will ever justify that expensive vacation, $200 bottle of wine, Starbucks coffee, or $400 shoes.  

 

Buy what you can afford, make great memories, and hopefully those memories are worth the price of admission.  These boats are expensive and bad 'investments' but no one ever filled a family photo album full of investments either.

[bamaboy]

3 hours ago, The Hulk said:

Now on the flip side say u can afford it but choose to borrow because 3% on a 10-15yr loan is pretty much free money running against true real life inflation.and using the Cash elsewhere can generate more or so u hope.. key word being the actual Cash upfront put elsewhere and the true inflation not the government BS inflation.. 

I would say this is the majority in the 100K+ market.  To me it seems insane to tie up that much cash in a depreciating asset when you can make double the interest investing in a reasonably safe alternative.  

 

Just my opinion and eventually these threads always degenerate into the finance versus cash debate.  here we go....

[The Hulk]

And if u die tomorrow.... Well... U had fun!... Priceless fun....

Edited September 20, 2016 by The Hulk

[BadgerBoater55]

12 hours ago, Zac said:

Factor in the long term loans and historically low interest rates and there could definitely be a correction.  Timing this correction is like trying to time the stock market and I'd refer to that as a fools game.

12 hours ago, tjklein said:

Seriously, boat and investment should not be used in the same sentence!  No one is ever going to justify owning a boat on 'paper'.  Of course no one will ever justify that expensive vacation, $200 bottle of wine, Starbucks coffee, or $400 shoes.  

 

Buy what you can afford, make great memories, and hopefully those memories are worth the price of admission.  These boats are expensive and bad 'investments' but no one ever filled a family photo album full of investments either.

Timing is a fools game... especially if you have a lot of time.  I always laugh my a$$ off in meetings when my clients talk about "hot stocks" on the TV.  The really bizarre part is how backwards people are when they invest, everyone chases returns!  Do you chase the highest price at the grocery store, or boats for that matter? NO, everyone wants a deal!  Bring on the correction, I want to buy on sale!

As someone about to sit for my CFP designation exam, it is so hard for me to consider a boat as something I "should" buy. But I totally agree the memories will eventually be worth it when I have a family.  There is so much more to life than money, but I agree, buy what you can afford!      

 

 

[wakerider107]

On 9/18/2016 at 0:30 PM, ah2oguy said:

I have not noticed anything like that but I will check this afternoon and see if anything happens

On the topic of resale of a M235, I plan on keeping my M235 for about 5 years and with the continued price increase of a new boat (8% on average) it will be a wash.  Now figure which boat a buyer would want?  A new boat or a super clean M235 for about the same money or slightly less.

A wash? As in you think you will be able to resell it for close to what you paid for it? Used boats will not appreciate with the same percentage as new boats increase each year.

Currently, people buying 140k boats are losing 30-40k off the lot simply because those who have the means to spend 120k have no problem spending more for new. Now, take a lower volume model, like the M235 which so far is appealing to only a few (due to price), and you will see even more depreciation in order to sell your boat - this has nothing to do with quality or condition of the boat, it's simply about money and the number of people this boat is financially available to.

Congrats on the boat, I don't mean to talk it down but this is what I've seen in the industry since 100k+ boats came out. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[teamerickson]

1 hour ago, BadgerBoater55 said:

Timing is a fools game... especially if you have a lot of time.  I always laugh my a$$ off in meetings when my clients talk about "hot stocks" on the TV.  The really bizarre part is how backwards people are when they invest, everyone chases returns!  Do you chase the highest price at the grocery store, or boats for that matter? NO, everyone wants a deal!  Bring on the correction, I want to buy on sale!

As someone about to sit for my CFP designation exam, it is so hard for me to consider a boat as something I "should" buy. But I totally agree the memories will eventually be worth it when I have a family.  There is so much more to life than money, but I agree, buy what you can afford!      

 

 

Good luck on your exam! It's fun!

[TallRedRider]

You should plan on losing all of your money when you buy a boat.  That is what will happen when financial Armageddon comes.  If you don't lose all of your money, then shout for joy.  That makes it a happier experience.  

If you buy a boat planning on not losing anything, then you are foolish.  It has worked out in many recent years, but the train of ever increasing new boat prices cannot drive on forever.  

[shawndoggy]

8 hours ago, TallRedRider said:

You should plan on losing all of your money when you buy a boat.  That is what will happen when financial Armageddon comes.  If you don't lose all of your money, then shout for joy.  That makes it a happier experience.  

If you buy a boat planning on not losing anything, then you are foolish.  It has worked out in many recent years, but the train of ever increasing new boat prices cannot drive on forever.  

I can see you are a glass half empty kinda guy too, TRR.

[The Hulk]

ohhh come on folks: boats are a terrible investment..there is no justifying it in any way other than the fun.....perhaps a good tax deduction... but more importantly your investing in a toy that puts a SMILE on your face....kind of like fake boobs...or a jetski...anyone ever seen a guy riding one of those with a frown on his face?? nope.. 

all  can say is a M235 would put a big ol smile on my face! but i opted for the 25 instead so i could put a smile on 19 faces... 

Now if we can get some more M235 users to post some pics of those wakes so we can compare against the 25!....or better yet discussion when is the M255 coming out?? i mean there is a G25....why not a G25-killa...or perhaps the 25lsv already does that... 

Edited September 21, 2016 by The Hulk

[bamaboy]

2 hours ago, The Hulk said:

 

Now if we can get some more M235 users to post some pics of those wakes so we can compare against the 25!....or better yet discussion when is the M255 coming out?? i mean there is a G25....why not a G25-killa...or perhaps the 25lsv already does that... 

Yeah, the M235 is such a blazing success I'm sure they are chomping at the bit to make a bigger version

[85 Barefoot]

1 hour ago, bamaboy said:

Yeah, the M235 is such a blazing success I'm sure they are chomping at the bit to make a bigger version

I don't know whether thats sarcasm or not, but in fact they have sold many more than an antcipated.

[teamerickson]

1 hour ago, 85 Barefoot said:

I don't know whether thats sarcasm or not, but in fact they have sold many more than an antcipated.

Data please?

[NAW]

6 hours ago, The Hulk said:

 

Now if we can get some more M235 users to post some pics of those wakes so we can compare against the 25!....or better yet discussion when is the M255 coming out?? i mean there is a G25....why not a G25-killa...or perhaps the 25lsv already does that... 

Unfortunately, you're not going to get alot of M owners on here. I've worked closely with M235 buyers....they're not spending time on forums.  Sorry.

The 25LSV smokes the G25 in sales, the 23LSV beats the G23 in sales....I'd say they need an LSV killer.  

[Malibuzer]

56 minutes ago, NAW said:

Unfortunately, you're not going to get alot of M owners on here. I've worked closely with M235 buyers....they're not spending time on forums.  Sorry.

The 25LSV smokes the G25 in sales, the 23LSV beats the G23 in sales....I'd say they need an LSV killer.  

Where are you getting the data from?

Just for my own interests sake.

 

 

[tjklein]

1 hour ago, NAW said:

Unfortunately, you're not going to get alot of M owners on here. I've worked closely with M235 buyers....they're not spending time on forums.  Sorry.

The 25LSV smokes the G25 in sales, the 23LSV beats the G23 in sales....I'd say they need an LSV killer.  

 

Isn't this pretty obvious?  They're really different price points.  You can get an LSV for under $100k.  Not even close with a G23.  Above $125 is a different ball game.  I'm sure the G23 outsells the 25LSV.  Those are comparable in price granted they're different sizes.  

[NAW]

42 minutes ago, Malibuzer said:

Where are you getting the data from?

Just for my own interests sake.

 

 

It's my job to know these things....I like my job!

 

18 minutes ago, tjklein said:

 

Isn't this pretty obvious?  They're really different price points.  You can get an LSV for under $100k.  Not even close with a G23.  Above $125 is a different ball game.  I'm sure the G23 outsells the 25LSV.  Those are comparable in price granted they're different sizes.  

The assumption is that lower price equals more sales.  Rarely are buyers purchasing these boats based on price at the plus $80K range.  

[kerpluxal]

4 hours ago, 85 Barefoot said:

I don't know whether thats sarcasm or not, but in fact they have sold many more than an antcipated.

This is true... They are not built in quantity either... they are not meant to be a high production boat, but a limited low production 

[bamaboy]

5 hours ago, 85 Barefoot said:

I don't know whether thats sarcasm or not, but in fact they have sold many more than an antcipated.

Honest questions:  How do you know what they anticipated?  What did they anticipate?  How many did they sell?  

Edited September 21, 2016 by bamaboy

[DarkSide]

The whole market share argument is silly!  We are talking about an industry that is less than 10000 units total across all builders.  All this really translates to is one is appealing to more of the .0025% of the US population that will be buying a performance sport boat this year.  

Keep in mind market share does not always translate to profitability.  There is a point where the cost to produce 1 more unit gets so high that it is more profitable to raise prices and sell less volume. 

I find it hard to believe price doesn't factor in above $80k, price is almost always a factor.  It may not be THE factor but it most certainly plays a role.  Especially with the number of used boats selling for above $80k.  The used market is ABSOLUTELY about price!  

 

 

[TenTwentyOne]

4 hours ago, NAW said:

It's my job to know these things....I like my job!

 

The assumption is that lower price equals more sales.  Rarely are buyers purchasing these boats based on price at the plus $80K range.  

You are joking, right? I rack my brain on even just options on a boat, in order to justify cost/benefit.

 

Just like the fact that I would like a G25, but I couldn't justify the price difference....... I think cost still plays a big factor for almost everyone. 

[hethj7]

Agreed on the above.  If pricing above $80k didn't matter, I would probably given a waaay harder look at a G23 than we did.  

[The Hulk]

Honestly I think a 25lsv is about equal to a g23 for boat size.. g is taller bulkier slightly heavier.. the 25 is a little shorter and longer.. similar prices although I think u could get a 25 for a bit less depending on options.. I could be wrong but I think the G's come standard with more options as standard where u could strip a bu down pretty good to lower price.. both are great boats. I think the 25ft label scares some on the size being called a 25.. sounds like whoooaaa.. but after your in it you appreciate the extra room and it's not like the massive g25.. so it's the best tif both worlds and u get a similar wave as the m235 from what I can tell.. and more ppl and walking room but perhaps less storage.. 

I know some of you "all-day" on the water folks appreciate the storage compartments.. bigger in the M... but for my family when we go out for an hour or a few hours at a time most of the crap will use is not in the storage compartment because we don't want to open it to access it all the time or have to have somebody get up and take the towel off the seat to access the storage that's why I appreciate the extra floor room and length in the boat vs storage compartments.. I mean seriously does anybody actually use a built-in cooler? Sounds cool but totally impractical  for an hour or two hr run...somebody has to get up to access it let alone put drinks in it and fill it up with ice. Empty it back out.. kind of my same point with storage. Grand of the newer boats have a normal cooler that can be stored under the seat if necessary but again that requires lifting up the seat awkwardly accessing the cooler or making somebody move to do so... Same with kids stuff towels toys etc.. I can't thank Malibu enough for adding a trash door on the side so somebody doesn't have to get up lift up a seat and put trash in a trash can like the older boats.. I think a lot of it just depends on what type of person you are if you're the all-day person Nitty Gritty extra room in the storage compartments makes a big difference for you if you're going out for a few hours at a time and you don't want to have to make people mover lift up seats a longer boat with more room allows you to store that stuff in the open for easy access..

if you're in the market for an M you should also check out the 25 test drive both.. with 6-8 adults in at the time.. if you're always running with a small crew then definitely you should probably consider the M.. if you're running with more than 7-8 folks then you're probably going to go with the 25 IMO.. the 25 has eliminated my need for a pontoon! After walking around the M I think I would have still needed a pontoon... 

But for smaller crews and pure out of the box stock awesomeness the M will win hearts..just fewer percentage of hearts..IMO...

How can u go wrong with either? How long ago was it that people said the G was ridiculous.. as we are all saying about the M now.. give it a few years and time will tell.. the difference in my opinion is Malibu has the 25 which is probably on par with the M.. nautique G23 blew the 230 out of the water and they had nothing else in their lineup that even compared to the Gs... so it was an easy sell... The M has to compete against the 25.. unless you can't squeeze the 25 into your garage the m is a pretty tough sell on paper compared to the 25..

My .02.  but both are sweeeeeeet!