2017 M235

[3sport]

I heard the m235 starts to porpoise at around 32 mph. Any truth to this?

[The Hulk]

I've heard something about the spray being annoying on the M any truth to that as well? Is that SG spray or wake spray?

With the new mx I also believe the M will be a harder sell as well. I feel they are the same buyers..I just feel you would take a huge beating on resale with limited buyers.. the G would be a far better resale in that price range with a better reputation. Sorry I think the M will flop due to pricing. Yeaaa they get similar or more so when u load the mx or 25s up with all the goodies. But initial sticker shock on the M probably points 9 out of 10 buyers to the other boats where they start adding options they want for their price etc.. . I don't even think any bu dealers around here even had a M this year.. all 22/23/25s. So obviously they didn't think they could sell a boat in that price range or didn't want to chance not selling a showroom model and then taking a bath on it selling a year old model for no profit next year? Got me but just see so few of the Ms even at some of the larger dealers.. and the new mx will just diminish that further IMO..

If I had to choose between the M and a G I'd go G for a guaranteed resale.. nothing to do with performance...

 

Edited September 16, 2016 by The Hulk

[tjklein]

I think the M will be fine.  Yes, the new MXZ is going to take sales and yes it's expensive, but the best dealers are selling them.  The profit margin is undoubtedly higher on the M as well, so they don't need to sell as many.  

 

I was out on Lake Minnetonka just west of Minneapolis for those of you not from the midwest and as we cruised the lake I realized why my dealer said they didn't have much trouble selling a few M235s.  Some people want the nicest boat on the lot and they don't care how much it is.  People pay $150 for a steak and $200 for a bottle of wine all the time, so IMO Malibu made a good choice making a halo wake boat.  How often do people say MC and Nautique are just a step above Malibu?  It's a perception that still exists, and in many cases true when it came to fit, finish and price.  Now Malibu is fighting to erase that perception and become THE brand in everyone's mind...not just in volume sold either.

[DarkSide]

I see Malibu trying to be both.   Which I am not really sure how you do. They are trying to be ultra premium with M235, then 2 slots down the showroom is a 21VLX saying give me market share!  

In my opinion these are counter productive completely opposite messages.   Especially when components are the same.   Dash, sport knob, surfgate, etc.  Having these same components in an M235, will help sell 21VLX, but having them in 21VLX will likely hinder the "Ultra Premium" M235.

 

 

[BadgerBoater55]

18 minutes ago, DarkSide said:

I see Malibu trying to be both.   Which I am not really sure how you do. They are trying to be ultra premium with M235, then 2 slots down the showroom is a 21VLX saying give me market share!  

In my opinion these are counter productive completely opposite messages.   Especially when components are the same.   Dash, sport knob, surfgate, etc.  Having these same components in an M235, will help sell 21VLX, but having them in 21VLX will likely hinder the "Ultra Premium" M235.

 

 

I totally get the point you are making... And I am half torn on agreeing with you completely.  But when you look at the M235 and the level of detail in the fit and finish, then look at the 21VLX where there is exposed fiberglass EVERYWHERE, you definitely can see the difference.  You are still getting a premium boat in the 21VLX, just at a budget price point.  Axis isn't quite "premium at a budget", and that is where imho the 21VLX bridges the two lines.

[DarkSide]

I totally understand difference.   M235 billet everywhere,  super nice, but we are taking about $100,000 apart in price!  

Obviously performance is significantly different as well.   I am just saying tough to go "market share AND ultra premium" simultaneously.  I guess my perspective of ultra premium also includes a level of exclusivity. You can't have 40% market share and be Exclusive....

Edited September 16, 2016 by DarkSide

[NWBU]

5 hours ago, tjklein said:

I think the M will be fine.  Yes, the new MXZ is going to take sales and yes it's expensive, but the best dealers are selling them.  The profit margin is undoubtedly higher on the M as well, so they don't need to sell as many.  

 

I was out on Lake Minnetonka just west of Minneapolis for those of you not from the midwest and as we cruised the lake I realized why my dealer said they didn't have much trouble selling a few M235s.  Some people want the nicest boat on the lot and they don't care how much it is.  People pay $150 for a steak and $200 for a bottle of wine all the time, so IMO Malibu made a good choice making a halo wake boat.  How often do people say MC and Nautique are just a step above Malibu?  It's a perception that still exists, and in many cases true when it came to fit, finish and price.  Now Malibu is fighting to erase that perception and become THE brand in everyone's mind...not just in volume sold either.

I was at the plant on Wednesday for a tour and this is exactly how they were talking about the M there. There was an M in the spray area and 3 were in the final finish and inspection area. Saw quite a few MXZs along the line too and my tour guy said they're really selling well.

[ejj]

4 hours ago, tjklein said:

I think the M will be fine.  Yes, the new MXZ is going to take sales and yes it's expensive, but the best dealers are selling them.  The profit margin is undoubtedly higher on the M as well, so they don't need to sell as many.  

 

I was out on Lake Minnetonka just west of Minneapolis for those of you not from the midwest and as we cruised the lake I realized why my dealer said they didn't have much trouble selling a few M235s.  Some people want the nicest boat on the lot and they don't care how much it is.  People pay $150 for a steak and $200 for a bottle of wine all the time, so IMO Malibu made a good choice making a halo wake boat.  How often do people say MC and Nautique are just a step above Malibu?  It's a perception that still exists, and in many cases true when it came to fit, finish and price.  Now Malibu is fighting to erase that perception and become THE brand in everyone's mind...not just in volume sold either.

This!  Many of the buyers are not overly sensitive to 10k price difference!  They want a nice freaking boat. Success.  These people were otherwise buying 

[billjames]

1 hour ago, NWBU said:

I was at the plant on Wednesday for a tour and this is exactly how they were talking about the M there. There was an M in the spray area and 3 were in the final finish and inspection area. Saw quite a few MXZs along the line too and my tour guy said they're really selling well.

Whichever is the level of sales of M235, all BU employee will always say: "selling well". As a public company, BU employee cannot say anything about sales level in good or bad terms. Selling well is meaningless if you do have an anchor figure for what they mean by well. It can be a few a month to a couple thousand a month. This is typical speaking when you do not want to give any information. If they do not give more information in their annual or quarterly financial disclosure, you will have hard time to know, unless some kind of government registration is publicly available or you know enough dealers that are representative of all Malibu dealers and are willing to share their number with you.

Edited September 16, 2016 by billjames

[NWBU]

1 hour ago, billjames said:

Whichever is the level of sales of M235, all BU employee will always say: "selling well". As a public company, BU employee cannot say anything about sales level in good or bad terms. Selling well is meaningless if you do have an anchor figure for what they mean by well. It can be a few a month to a couple thousand a month. This is typical speaking when you do not want to give any information. If they do not give more information in their annual or quarterly financial disclosure, you will have hard time to know, unless some kind of government registration is publicly available or you know enough dealers that are representative of all Malibu dealers and are willing to share their number with you.

Ok then...not sure what point you're trying to make here since that was in reference to MXZs. Saw a number of MXZs on the line, I can edit the "selling well" part if that worries you?

[The Hulk]

6 hours ago, BadgerBoater55 said:

I totally get the point you are making... And I am half torn on agreeing with you completely.  But when you look at the M235 and the level of detail in the fit and finish, then look at the 21VLX where there is exposed fiberglass EVERYWHERE, you definitely can see the difference.  You are still getting a premium boat in the 21VLX, just at a budget price point.  Axis isn't quite "premium at a budget", and that is where imho the 21VLX bridges the two lines.

But then were talking low/mid/high market sectors. Maybe they need a new brand for the  VLX trying to be everything is often not good.. 

[SoulSurfer]

7 hours ago, DarkSide said:

I see Malibu trying to be both.   Which I am not really sure how you do. They are trying to be ultra premium with M235, then 2 slots down the showroom is a 21VLX saying give me market share!  

In my opinion these are counter productive completely opposite messages.   Especially when components are the same.   Dash, sport knob, surfgate, etc.  Having these same components in an M235, will help sell 21VLX, but having them in 21VLX will likely hinder the "Ultra Premium" M235.

 

 

It's an approach premium car manufacturers take - look at Porsche, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Audi.  they all offer flagship models at stratospheric prices and other models at more "attainable" prices, while retaining an overall "premium" brand.  It's not like the 21VLX is a true "bargain boat" - we're still talking $80K or more.  I think it's a strategy that can work.

[85 Barefoot]

20 minutes ago, SoulSurfer said:

It's an approach premium car manufacturers take - look at Porsche, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Audi.  they all offer flagship models at stratospheric prices and other models at more "attainable" prices, while retaining an overall "premium" brand.  It's not like the 21VLX is a true "bargain boat" - we're still talking $80K or more.  I think it's a strategy that can work.

The cockpit of an i8 is not nearly the same as a 330.  Just sayin.  

[billjames]

3 hours ago, NWBU said:

Ok then...not sure what point you're trying to make here since that was in reference to MXZs. Saw a number of MXZs on the line, I can edit the "selling well" part if that worries you?

NWBU,

My point was not to trust anything the BU employee can say during a tour about financial metrics. I did not imply you trusted what they say, this was not my point.

[wakerider107]

On 9/16/2016 at 6:00 AM, tjklein said:

I think the M will be fine.  Yes, the new MXZ is going to take sales and yes it's expensive, but the best dealers are selling them.  The profit margin is undoubtedly higher on the M as well, so they don't need to sell as many.  

 

I was out on Lake Minnetonka just west of Minneapolis for those of you not from the midwest and as we cruised the lake I realized why my dealer said they didn't have much trouble selling a few M235s.  Some people want the nicest boat on the lot and they don't care how much it is.  People pay $150 for a steak and $200 for a bottle of wine all the time, so IMO Malibu made a good choice making a halo wake boat.  How often do people say MC and Nautique are just a step above Malibu?  It's a perception that still exists, and in many cases true when it came to fit, finish and price.  Now Malibu is fighting to erase that perception and become THE brand in everyone's mind...not just in volume sold either.

Keep in mind this is the #1 Malibu dealerships territory and is no way representative of even a handful of dealers. Hasn't MN Inboard only sold 5 M235s? I could be wrong. They are also the only Malibu dealer in the state and there is ridiculous money on Lake Minnetonka and a couple other chains near their northern location.

I think Malibu will have trouble keeping this boat around at that price since it is almost too exclusive. Resale will probably be awful unfortunately.

[billjames]

It might be a marketing strategy that consists of creating a new product/SKU with a much higher price point than the former highest priced item. Now the former highest priced item becomes cheap and as a result you increase the sales volume of this former highest priced item. Car manufacturers use this strategy a lot. When you do so, you make sure that the new highest priced item does not cost a lot in R&D. This is normally just a more expansive version of something that already exist.

In this case, there was definitively R&D, so BU might have decided to apply this strategy while offering a real highest price item for the few who can pay for it.

 

Reference: https://blog.kissmetrics.com/a-total-steal/

[ah2oguy]

On 9/16/2016 at 8:57 PM, 3sport said:

I heard the m235 starts to porpoise at around 32 mph. Any truth to this?

I have not noticed anything like that but I will check this afternoon and see if anything happens

20 hours ago, wakerider107 said:

Keep in mind this is the #1 Malibu dealerships territory and is no way representative of even a handful of dealers. Hasn't MN Inboard only sold 5 M235s? I could be wrong. They are also the only Malibu dealer in the state and there is ridiculous money on Lake Minnetonka and a couple other chains near their northern location.

I think Malibu will have trouble keeping this boat around at that price since it is almost too exclusive. Resale will probably be awful unfortunately.

On the topic of resale of a M235, I plan on keeping my M235 for about 5 years and with the continued price increase of a new boat (8% on average) it will be a wash.  Now figure which boat a buyer would want?  A new boat or a super clean M235 for about the same money or slightly less.

[tjklein]

A good plan if boats see an 8% increase on average, but odds are they won't and to my knowledge we haven't been averaging 8% over the last 4 years.  I just went and checked pricing on MXZs and LSVs and it's not close to 8% even with all the updates to these models.

There is a ceiling somewhere for people...even if they are financing them for 15-20years.

[bamaboy]

46 minutes ago, ah2oguy said:

I have not noticed anything like that but I will check this afternoon and see if anything happens

On the topic of resale of a M235, I plan on keeping my M235 for about 5 years and with the continued price increase of a new boat (8% on average) it will be a wash.  Now figure which boat a buyer would want?  A new boat or a super clean M235 for about the same money or slightly less.

Anything 100K+ is going to be hard to flip on a yearly basis unless you can get an absolutely smoking deal.  And by that I mean like 5% over cost.  

 

I'm confused by the statement "a new boat or a super clean M235"?  With an 8% increase per year are you saying that the M235 is going to keep the same value?  Lets say you pay 150K for an M235 right now.  Do you mean you will be able to sell it for 150K in 5 years with 350 hours? 

[shawn]

They may not be 8% but there 4 to 5% every year and it has to stop sometime yes. But when I built a 24 MXZ the other day it was more than I paid for the M235 with out the big motor. If I can't sell mine its a good boat to be stuck with:). It will sell when people go out and see what the new ones are priced at during the boat shows. Like ah2oguy said someone will want to save a little money over the new ones. A new LSV is around 100 now they have to quit going up sometime but look at the other brands there right there also.  

[billjames]

Trees do not climb up to the sky. In 2003-2007 people got the same thinking about their home. What a huge wake up call for some. Timing the deflation of the bubble is really hard if not impossible

[tjklein]

33 minutes ago, billjames said:

Trees do not climb up to the sky. In 2003-2007 people got the same thinking about their home. What a huge wake up call for some. Timing the deflation of the bubble is really hard if not impossible

 

Exactly, although cars/trucks are climbing as well.  $50k is the new normal for a nice truck which seems crazy too.  I will say the products are much better, but there is a ceiling somewhere...

 

[85 Barefoot]

A boat market correction will actually HELP the people who have very pricey boats on resale.  Looks how much 2008-12 boats go for these days because there weren't many new ones getting built.  Heck, a lot of people could come close to what they paid for them.

[tn_rider]

Go get you some numbers on a 17' Platinum F250 loaded up. It'll blow your mind.

[billjames]

yeah they do a lot of subprime loan on car now as they are not allowed to do it on houses the way they did pre 2007. Getting a car loan is really easy whatever is your income. Now, it is way less leveraging than with a home. Having said so, when it will crash, used car market as well as brand new car market will take a dip. I do not have any information on boat loan. But if this is the same as a car loan. Be ready for a blood bath when the bubble will deflate.