Decisions: VTX 20, Axis A20, Moomba Helix

[minnmarker]

Realistically:

5 in the cockpit of a 20

7 in a 21/21.5

9 in a 23

plus you can put 2 adults or 3 smaller kids in the bow.

[Malibuzer]

Just now, minnmarker said:

Realistically:

5 in the cockpit of a 20

7 in a 21/21.5

9 in a 23

plus you can put 2 adults or 3 smaller kids in the bow.

I dislike two adults in the VTX bow.  Sits pretty darn low empty.  If we are surfing I allow the older kids up there.  Or maybe a couple of the smaller adults.  The VLX and LSV's sit so much higher.

[minnmarker]

On 9/12/2016 at 10:36 PM, Surf6 said:

Yes. Only 20ft boats. They fit in our garage.

Do you know about trailers with folding tongues?  Most of these boats come with them.  Also, most of these boats have easily removable swim platforms that give you another 1.5 to 2.5 feet.  With the folding tongue and the platform you might get up to 4 feet of extra length.

[oldjeep]

6 minutes ago, Malibuzer said:

I dislike two adults in the VTX bow.  Sits pretty darn low empty.  If we are surfing I allow the older kids up there.  Or maybe a couple of the smaller adults.  The VLX and LSV's sit so much higher.

My wife and daughter sit up there all the time, never really noticed it effecting the way the boat sits.  Only thing I don't like about it is not being able to see as well with their heads in the way.

Our typical group in the boat is 4-6 adult sized people and it works fine for that even if there is nobody in the bow.  Many more than that and it is tough to get people oriented so that the boat stays level enough for water sports

Just now, minnmarker said:

Do you know about trailers with folding tongues?  Most of these boats come with them.  Also, most of these boats have easily removable swim platforms that give you another 1.5 to 2.5 feet.  With the folding tongue and the platform you might get up to 4 feet of extra length.

Easily removable is kind of a loaded statement.  Yes, easy to unlatch - no not particularly easy to remove or reinstall unless you have 2 people doing it.

[Ridebutter]

21' VLX fit in your garage?  I think you will have lots more room than you have now in a A20, but the tower on the malibu will be easier to lower and raise.  Not that the Axis is hard to do with the optional clips, but the Malibu is just SO easy!  I think you are 6 comfortable behind the windshield, plus 2-3 3 kids in the bow and 1 behind the boat.  PLENTY OF ROOM! :-)

[granddaddy55]

5 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

Just a point to remember, the hull completely changed on the A20 between 2014 and 2015+. Not sure how the 15+ would compare to yours.

I thought it was 16+ as the 15 still has the mushroom locker doesn't it, so they didn't change that but altered the hull?

what Malibu older hull is the 11-14 a20 based on? is it a VLX ?is that why ours is decent?

[ahopkins22LSV]

Just now, granddaddy55 said:

I thought it was 16+ as the 15 still has the mushroom locker doesn't it, so they didn't change that but altered the hull?

what Malibu older hull is the 11-14 a20 based on? is it a VLX ?is that why ours is decent?

Sorry yes, 16+.

[Kalamazoo]

just curious...did you look at MB?

[granddaddy55]

5 hours ago, Ridebutter said:

Best bang for your buck out of the 3 is the A20, but that might not be the BEST fit for you.  Drive the Helix, I suspect it falls off your list quick.

Do you have a boat now?  What do you like/dislike about it?

Sounds like your focus is going to be on surfing, some wakeboarding, and occasionally dad wants to free ski.  Is that correct?  Do you have to lower your tower to go in the garage?

Best all round for price loaded or stripped , should have gotten sp2, and salt series that includes painted galvanized tandem with custom bigger rims and tires 

new tower clips I assume are better than my knobs, tower worse on mine especially on way up with 4 Titan racks, down I can do by myself without damaging boat , up is another story

extremely small garage profile and I push and pull it into and out of my driveway carport by hand by myself with relative ease.  I use the jack wheel to turn the boat on trailer as well

Edited September 15, 2016 by granddaddy55

[granddaddy55]

2 hours ago, Surf6 said:

We do have a boat. It is a 1999 Four Winns. We will have to lower the tower. 

Two biggest things we don't like is: we cannot surf behind it and the second thing we need more room. Our boat only fits 8. We have 6 in our family. 

If you want to comfortably bring the family of 6 hope a lot of small kids, plus others up to your 8, get the right prop, but at 5 to 7 in boat it won't be bad, but comfort is highly reduced in an a 20, if your using them for ballast and you slam it with 850 rears, 950 mushroom front and stock and wedge , I need the 2419 for '14, my 1235 is overwhelmed at that point , but your wave will be sick once you know where to put everybody and go to the big wheel 

[CumminsBu]

The VTX should be first on your list for Slalom skiing. Unless it has changed, the Axis doesn't have a ski pylon only a tower attachment for wake or surfing. So the ski rope would have to attach to the back of the boat. Also any diamond hull will help the Slalom wake.

[granddaddy55]

13 hours ago, CumminsBu said:

The VTX should be first on your list for Slalom skiing. Unless it has changed, the Axis doesn't have a ski pylon only a tower attachment for wake or surfing. So the ski rope would have to attach to the back of the boat. Also any diamond hull will help the Slalom wake.

Wrong axis has a ski pylon option , I have one in my price point white a20, I ordered.  Wakeboarders specifically don't want it cause bumping into it, they consider  it a nuisance  and the a20 is light enough to displace less water 

Edited September 16, 2016 by granddaddy55

[oldjeep]

Just now, granddaddy55 said:

Wrong axis has a ski pylon option , I have one in my price point white a20, I ordered.  Wakeboarders specifically don't want it cause bumping into it, they consider  it a nuisance  and the a20 is light enough to displace less water 

Pylon doesn't retract?

[granddaddy55]

Just now, oldjeep said:

Pylon doesn't retract?

No, remember "price point" boat, nobody ever seems to remember that unless they are talking about the fit and finish of an axis , they forget it is a price point boat and then want more from it than they paid for , BUT

MY WIFE LOVES IT (the pylon) who is the person we really ordered it for because at the time she was only a skater and skier cause wakeboard blew out her retina in her 1st month  of wakeboarding , the overall confidence she grew behind our boat from a good slalom runs with the pylon and her skate runs encouraged her to try wakeboarding this year after 6 years and now landing 1 wake airs toesand heals along with her steadily progressing surf progression that she now rips.  It all worked together to raise her confidence.  We now know who's the real water sports animal in the family is as she often does all four disciplines in one weekend or day

Moral of story, pylons make our wakeboats better overall boats and provide a better all round experience that boosts the confidence of women and others to try it all.

no mine doesn't retract but it's a real completion of my boat as the family boat

always buy the boat for rest of family as it comes back in spades to the one who really wanted it cause now family wants to go constantly

 

[oldjeep]

Just now, granddaddy55 said:

No, remember "price point" boat, nobody ever seems to remember that unless they are talking about the fit and finish of an axis , they forget it is a price point boat and then want more from it than they paid for , BUT

MY WIFE LOVES IT (the pylon) who is the person we really ordered it for because at the time she was only a skater and skier cause wakeboard blew out her retina in her 1st month  of wakeboarding , the overall confidence she grew behind our boat from a good slalom runs with the pylon and her skate runs encouraged her to try wakeboarding this year after 6 years and now landing 1 wake airs toesand heals along with her steadily progressing surf progression that she now rips.  It all worked together to raise her confidence.  We now know who's the real water sports animal in the family is as she often does all four disciplines in one weekend or day

Moral of story, pylons make our wakeboats better overall boats and provide a better all round experience that boosts the confidence of women and others to try it all.

no mine doesn't retract but it's a real completion of my boat as the family boat

always buy the boat for rest of family as it comes back in spades to the one who really wanted it cause now family wants to go constantly

 

Ah, wouldn't have thought that a retractable pylon would add cost over the fixed version since honestly they are pretty cheesy the way they work.

Edited September 16, 2016 by oldjeep

[granddaddy55]

2 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Ah, wouldn't have thought that a retractable pylon would add cost over the fixed version since honestly they are pretty cheesy the way they work.

I don't know, a mechanical mechanism that in essence is "folding itself" into a hole and possible electronic switching  but then it has to be strong enough to deal with a slack rope tube line coming tight, I bet it would be an invoice amount comperable to say two to four Titan racks, snd I have yet to bang my knee on it but I do have to avoid it and if you look at where it is,

it would cause configure problems as it is directly over the bell housing and the other stuff on top of that because that strength would have to be built into it not only at the level where it is mounted ,but also below that deck structure it is mounted to, I think the cost could be $1000 or more vs a couple hundred 

[River Monsters]

Just now, granddaddy55 said:

I don't know, a mechanical mechanism that in essence is "folding itself" into a hole and possible electronic switching  but then it has to be strong enough to deal with a slack rope tube line coming tight, I bet it would be an invoice amount comperable to say two to four Titan racks, snd I have yet to bang my knee on it but I do have to avoid it and if you look at where it is,

it would cause configure problems as it is directly over the bell housing and the other stuff on top of that because that strength would have to be built into it not only at the level where it is mounted ,but also below that deck structure it is mounted to, I think the cost could be $1000 or more vs a couple hundred 

The one behind the back seat just twists and drops.  Nothing really to it.  I gather we are NOT speaking about a center pylon that would drop in the floor.  That is another VTX option.

[oldjeep]

14 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

I don't know, a mechanical mechanism that in essence is "folding itself" into a hole and possible electronic switching  but then it has to be strong enough to deal with a slack rope tube line coming tight, I bet it would be an invoice amount comperable to say two to four Titan racks, snd I have yet to bang my knee on it but I do have to avoid it and if you look at where it is,

it would cause configure problems as it is directly over the bell housing and the other stuff on top of that because that strength would have to be built into it not only at the level where it is mounted ,but also below that deck structure it is mounted to, I think the cost could be $1000 or more vs a couple hundred 

That sounds really fancy.  But the VTX drop down pylon is just a tube in a tube with a bolt that catches a slot when you rotate it by hand.  It sits right next to the distributor and is only supported by the frame that is between the top of the back seat and the engine.

Edited September 16, 2016 by oldjeep

[onwi]

@River Monsters No, not a center mount like the optional one on the vtx.  The Axis tow point is where the traditional pop up would go on the Bu, but ours does not twist and slide down flush with the vinyl.  

Can't say I've ever had anyone bump mine but it sounds like it happens.

For reference, this is the 30 mph ski wake of a 2012 A20 with only a driver and a touch of weight in the bow bag.

[asp13]

hmm... would be interested to see how that looks at 33-34 mph

[onwi]

As for the question at hand, if Surf6 wants more room I would demo the VTX with my full crew.  If you have the money and feel more comfortable with the traditional bow, and allowing people in the bow to put their feet on the floor then go with the VTX.  If you want to save the money and like the play pen bow stick with the A20.  By the sound of it I doubt you are demanding the flattest ski wake or the world's deepest surf pocket.  I'm thinking both the A20 and the VTX will perform to your liking so far as wave and wake.

Also, since I wrote about the bow I will say that we do fill ours up with weight.  I fill the beneath bow arrow bag full (estimates of 650 lbs) and another triangle bag on top of the seats.  I'd say 1200 lbs in the bow of my boat is not abnormal.  This, of course, is balanced by 750s in the rear on top of the boat's stock ballast.  I don't feel like I'm going to take water in the bow at anytime with that set up.  So I would have no problem with people in the bow.

Just now, asp13 said:

hmm... would be interested to see how that looks at 33-34 mph

I don't really ski anymore.  Used to slalom a ton, but never behind a comp boat so I don't have enough background information to give you a great opinion.  But, I believe the A20 can make a small ski wake, but it is quite a bit more firm than a course-skier would prefer.  

[oldjeep]

5 minutes ago, onwi said:

As for the question at hand, if Surf6 wants more room I would demo the VTX with my full crew.  If you have the money and feel more comfortable with the traditional bow, and allowing people in the bow to put their feet on the floor then go with the VTX.  If you want to save the money and like the play pen bow stick with the A20.  By the sound of it I doubt you are demanding the flattest ski wake or the world's deepest surf pocket.  I'm thinking both the A20 and the VTX will perform to your liking so far as wave and wake.

Also, since I wrote about the bow I will say that we do fill ours up with weight.  I fill the beneath bow arrow bag full (estimates of 650 lbs) and another triangle bag on top of the seats.  I'd say 1200 lbs in the bow of my boat is not abnormal.  This, of course, is balanced by 750s in the rear on top of the boat's stock ballast.  I don't feel like I'm going to take water in the bow at anytime with that set up.  So I would have no problem with people in the bow.

I don't really ski anymore.  Used to slalom a ton, but never behind a comp boat so I don't have enough background information to give you a great opinion.  But, I believe the A20 can make a small ski wake, but it is quite a bit more firm than a course-skier would prefer.  

Feet on the floor?  While there are some VTX that don't have the bow tank, they are pretty rare - at least around here.  Most VTX have an entirely flat bow seating area.

 

Edited September 16, 2016 by oldjeep

[onwi]

Just now, oldjeep said:

Feet on the floor?  While there are some VTX that don't have the center tank, they are pretty rare - at least around here.  Most VTX have an entirely flat bow seating area.

Then my thoughts on the traditional bow are wrong, thanks for the clarification. I always thought it was a full walkthrough. 

[River Monsters]

I have no bow tank in my VTX. I keep a 400 lb sac in the walkway and then 150 lbs lead in the nose.  I also have the center cushion for flat seating, but have never really used it.  Up in the garage I think.

1200 lbs + passengers in the bow of a VTX would be Edmund Fitzgerald.

[onwi]

To be clear.  I'm never 1200+ passengers.  Either 650 + passenger or 650 and empty or 1200.  To get to that weight the bow is covered by a triangle bag.  Also have plenty of weight in the rear to keep the swim platform at or just below the water.