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Surf6

Decisions: VTX 20, Axis A20, Moomba Helix

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Surf6

Hi All, 

We are in the market for a awesome surf boat, that we can get some slalom runs in too. Family of 6. My oldest is 11 and loves to surf and wakeboard too. We were pretty much decided on a Axis A20 but while at the dealership they showed us a 2016 VTX. Now we are even more confused. Would love to hear opinions. We've also looked at Mastercraft NXT as well as Tige. We've only surfed behind friends Master Craft X23 surf edition as well as Nautique G23. Both were awesome! Neither are in our budget or will fit in our garage. We currently have a 1999 Four Winns 18ft.

 

 

 

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bamabonners

Personally, if you could get a vtx...I'd go that first.  Axis second.  Nxt third, moomba last. 

Test drive and crawl around them all.  Don't listen to the sales pitch....

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ejj

If you are looking at the more costly 20 foot crossovers, I'd rank in this order

1, Nautique gs20

2, Malibu vtx

Unknown: new MasterCraft X2 replacement they have been teasing photos of...

For more affordable 20 foot boats I think the Helix has bomb surf wake, and nice freeboard. Kinda Homely looking. Any Moomba With the new Autowake it will be easy to dial.  Mondo is a better ski boat. Their overall improved quality and nicer vinyl has to worry Axis

The Axis A20 has a very distinct look.  Some people like that. Pretty great surf and WB boat.  Interior materials not so great  

NXT has nice vinyl, ugly tower. Most expensive. 

Tige 20 foot boat is too small. 

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That Guy

Are you only looking at 20ft boats? Because those boats aren't in the same price brackets so want make sure how/why you're comparing them. 

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Surf6

Yes. Only 20ft boats. They fit in our garage. As far as the 23's we've ridden in it was not for comparison just a fun day on the lake with friends. We know a 20ft boat will not compare to the 23.

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River Monsters

Really depends on how serious of a skier you are.  If skiing is really important, then the VTX is hard to beat.  Also Nautique Sport 200 or the new GS20.  But most 20' boats will have a decent ski wake over 30 mph.  Get the one that fits your style or has a better dealer if buying new.  Nice thing about buying new is you can spend some time on each one.  A little more difficult buying used.

Good luck with your search.  Welcome to TMC.

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67King
11 hours ago, ejj said:

If you are looking at the more costly 20 foot crossovers, I'd rank in this order

1, Nautique gs20

Have you been behind one?  I know they call it a 3 sport boat.......but it is 4500 pounds dry.  I just can't see it skiing worth a darn.   That's 1000 pounds heavier than the VTX or A20, and nearly twice as much as a true ski boat.  I'm genuinely curious to hear about it, and how true those claims are.

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ahopkinsVTX

I agree the vtx is probably the best wth what we know because we have really only seen one short snip of a short line skier going trough the wakes once of the new Nautique. But it's worth a demo for sure. 

What kind of skiing are you talking about? Running the course or casual open water?

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River Monsters
17 minutes ago, 67King said:

Have you been behind one?  I know they call it a 3 sport boat.......but it is 4500 pounds dry.  I just can't see it skiing worth a darn.   That's 1000 pounds heavier than the VTX or A20, and nearly twice as much as a true ski boat.  I'm genuinely curious to hear about it, and how true those claims are.

On the Nautique forum I've seen it mostly compared to the SAN 210.  Great ski wake for the weight, but it isn't defying physics or anything.  

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Surf6

Open water slalom. I like to get a few runs in between the kids tubing and wake boarding. 

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67King
2 hours ago, River Monsters said:

On the Nautique forum I've seen it mostly compared to the SAN 210.  Great ski wake for the weight, but it isn't defying physics or anything.  

I guess I'm wondering how it compares to a VTX.  I saw some pictures on the ball of spray forum.  And yeah, not bad for so heavy, but not what I'd think of as a ski-able wake.  @oldjeep posted a picture of his VTX's wake, which was infinitely better.

I guess I'm also a bit biased because I would love to have a boat I could use for skiing, but one doesn't fit the family right now.

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oldjeep
13 minutes ago, 67King said:

I guess I'm wondering how it compares to a VTX.  I saw some pictures on the ball of spray forum.  And yeah, not bad for so heavy, but not what I'd think of as a ski-able wake.  @oldjeep posted a picture of his VTX's wake, which was infinitely better.

I guess I'm also a bit biased because I would love to have a boat I could use for skiing, but one doesn't fit the family right now.

Just be aware that a 2016 + VTX is a whole different boat than a 2015 and older.  My 2012 has a pretty decent wake at 30MPH @15 off where my son skis, I ski at [email protected] off and the wake is even nicer at that speed.  If you have been skiing behind an I/O then I think you'll find a lot of wakes acceptable.  I came from a 2005 Bayliner 195 that I skied at 34MPH to get the wake down to a manageable size.

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ejj

I agree with most everything above. None of these are ski boats, they are surf boats that can ski.   

There is no magic. If you want a boat of a certain size with certain options, it will be heavy.  The older VTX was a smaller hull shape.  Skied better, lower freeboard, weaker surfing.   While the Nautique is listed as heavier, all the boats are pretty much made of the same stuff.  (Glass, pumps, engines, stereos, towers, etc)  I've found many boat manufacturers go a little light on their list weights. 

I have been on a demo in the new VTX. I have seen video of a normal guy skiing the wakes on the new GS. I have climbed around in all the boats that you might consider for a crossover, as I have been in the market for a 20 foot crossover for a while. 

Edited by ejj

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67King
1 hour ago, ejj said:

I agree with most everything above. None of these are ski boats, they are surf boats that can ski.   

There is no magic. If you want a boat of a certain size with certain options, it will be heavy.  The older VTX was a smaller hull shape.  Skied better, lower freeboard, weaker surfing.   While the Nautique is listed as heavier, all the boats are pretty much made of the same stuff.  (Glass, pumps, engines, stereos, towers, etc)  I've found many boat manufacturers go a little light on their list weights. 

I have been on a demo in the new VTX. I have seen video of a normal guy skiing the wakes on the new GS. I have climbed around in all the boats that you might consider for a crossover, as I have been in the market for a 20 foot crossover for a while. 

My VLX is listed at 800 pounds heavier than my old A22 was.  Both were 22' (actually the VLX is 2" shorter), and both had the same 102" beam.  The A22 was actually a pickle fork.  So if anything, those dimensions would have the A22 slightly heavier, rather than MUCH lighter, but it is.  And the wake definitely shows it.  I could ski (recreationally) behind the Axis, the VLX......not so much.  The obvious place there is the freeboard/height.  Perhaps the GS20 is the same way, unfortunately the sites do not list that spec or anything related to height.  Which brings up a point the OP needs to consider - garage clearance.

 

At any rate, if the intent is to the use the boat for skiing, then I personally would go with the most ski appropriate boat.  Not to completely oversimplify it, but you can for the most part add weight to improve the surf wake.  But you can't remove what is already there to try to get a ski wake.  Basically, if you buy a boat to surf/wakeboard, and think you'll still be able to ski it, you'll find yourself not even bothering to try to ski anymore :(

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ejj
6 hours ago, 67King said:

My VLX is listed at 800 pounds heavier than my old A22 was.  Both were 22' (actually the VLX is 2" shorter), and both had the same 102" beam.  The A22 was actually a pickle fork.  So if anything, those dimensions would have the A22 slightly heavier, rather than MUCH lighter, but it is.  And the wake definitely shows it.  I could ski (recreationally) behind the Axis, the VLX......not so much.  The obvious place there is the freeboard/height.  Perhaps the GS20 is the same way, unfortunately the sites do not list that spec or anything related to height.  Which brings up a point the OP needs to consider - garage clearance.

 

At any rate, if the intent is to the use the boat for skiing, then I personally would go with the most ski appropriate boat.  Not to completely oversimplify it, but you can for the most part add weight to improve the surf wake.  But you can't remove what is already there to try to get a ski wake.  Basically, if you buy a boat to surf/wakeboard, and think you'll still be able to ski it, you'll find yourself not even bothering to try to ski anymore :(

Perfect example here. I didn't mean to imply that boats of same length weighed the same.  Your VLX has more glass, more nice doodads, etc.  

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Ingineer66

Sounds like it may not apply to the new boats, but my 2012 VTX with the bow tank half full has a ski wake as good as my old Echelon. 

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granddaddy55
On September 12, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Surf6 said:

Open water slalom. I like to get a few runs in between the kids tubing and wake boarding. 

If you really rip leave the rope long in the A20, great casual to intermediate wake, wicked landing on my old Jobe that was extremely hard on my old knees.  My wife a more casual but rhythmic skier loves it , made the mistake of shortening the line and brought her to highest point of wave and said don't do it again!  Close the valves t avoid passive filling it makes a difference

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ahopkinsVTX
5 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

If you really rip leave the rope long in the A20, great casual to intermediate wake, wicked landing on my old Jobe that was extremely hard on my old knees.  My wife a more casual but rhythmic skier loves it , made the mistake of shortening the line and brought her to highest point of wave and said don't do it again!  Close the valves t avoid passive filling it makes a difference

Just a point to remember, the hull completely changed on the A20 between 2014 and 2015+. Not sure how the 15+ would compare to yours.

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Ridebutter

Best bang for your buck out of the 3 is the A20, but that might not be the BEST fit for you.  Drive the Helix, I suspect it falls off your list quick.

Do you have a boat now?  What do you like/dislike about it?

Sounds like your focus is going to be on surfing, some wakeboarding, and occasionally dad wants to free ski.  Is that correct?  Do you have to lower your tower to go in the garage?

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2008vtx

For sure the VTX , gS20 and sport 200 will be the best fit and finish in the 20ft range. I haven't been on a AXIS in a long time so can't really speak to that boat. I did get the opportunity to demo on Helix just this week and was extremely surprised ! A good friend is looking to buy a new boat and I went with him to demo the Helix obviously is not your 100k creature comfort boat but drove and handled really nice. Had tons of power with the Raptor no rattles or vibration and the wakeboard and surf wake was great. I completely expected to get behind it and have no surf wave but it was good and has tons of potential. There is a ton of room in the lockers to add 1100 lbs bags and it would be a great wave for sure. 

My buddy is going from a Pro Star 205 mostly skiing and wants to surf and wakeboard more with friends. He really likes the boat and I think he's gonna order a Helix soon. Defiantly with a look. 

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ejj
2 hours ago, 2008vtx said:

For sure the VTX , gS20 and sport 200 will be the best fit and finish in the 20ft range. I haven't been on a AXIS in a long time so can't really speak to that boat. I did get the opportunity to demo on Helix just this week and was extremely surprised ! A good friend is looking to buy a new boat and I went with him to demo the Helix obviously is not your 100k creature comfort boat but drove and handled really nice. Had tons of power with the Raptor no rattles or vibration and the wakeboard and surf wake was great. I completely expected to get behind it and have no surf wave but it was good and has tons of potential. There is a ton of room in the lockers to add 1100 lbs bags and it would be a great wave for sure. 

My buddy is going from a Pro Star 205 mostly skiing and wants to surf and wakeboard more with friends. He really likes the boat and I think he's gonna order a Helix soon. Defiantly with a look. 

Ditto to this exact experience.  I used to smirk at Moombas.  Not any more.

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Surf6
2 hours ago, Ridebutter said:

Best bang for your buck out of the 3 is the A20, but that might not be the BEST fit for you.  Drive the Helix, I suspect it falls off your list quick.

Do you have a boat now?  What do you like/dislike about it?

Sounds like your focus is going to be on surfing, some wakeboarding, and occasionally dad wants to free ski.  Is that correct?  Do you have to lower your tower to go in the garage?

We do have a boat. It is a 1999 Four Winns. We will have to lower the tower. 

Two biggest things we don't like is: we cannot surf behind it and the second thing we need more room. Our boat only fits 8. We have 6 in our family. 

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oldjeep
Just now, Surf6 said:

We do have a boat. It is a 1999 Four Winns. We will have to lower the tower. 

Two biggest things we don't like is: we cannot surf behind it and the second thing we need more room. Our boat only fits 8. We have 6 in our family. 

Well, regardless of what the capacity plate says you are not going to want more than 8 people in a 20ft wakeboat either.  We have on occasion for a slow cruise filled up my VTX to capacity but it isn't going to work for that many people for normal usage.

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3sport
18 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Well, regardless of what the capacity plate says you are not going to want more than 8 people in a 20ft wakeboat either.  We have on occasion for a slow cruise filled up my VTX to capacity but it isn't going to work for that many people for normal usage.

had 10 on ours this summer - 4 adults and 6 kids ranging in age from 4 to 14. Not fun.  Felt claustrophobic.

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Malibuzer

We seem to never be on the water with anything less than 8 in my VTX.  Its always full of kids, kids friends, parents etc.  Cramped, yes.......fun?  Hell yes!

 

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