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25 LSV Surf Wave


The Hulk

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Demoed a 25 this weekend and don't recall that flat spot. Crisp all the way to the deck. That was stock "surf left" at 10.8 with 900 PNP. But I did not have the length you have In that pic. Hope to take delivery this week and help you find the perfect surf wave!

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9 hours ago, The Hulk said:

maybe I should just make an open invite this thursday for y'all to take off work and come surf all day on my boat for free to help since I don't have a driver! 

.cough..cough.. anyone else sick? 

I see that you live in Fort Wayne, where do you boat?  Maybe we could meet in the middle :). 

Also, where did you buy your boat?

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@bcoppess23 i live in Fort Wayne, IN, but i have a cottage on Snow Lake (Lake James Chain) up on Angola/Fremont Indiana area just south of MI border by hwy 80/90 & I69.

i purchased from Skiers Pier up in MI about 2:45min north of there. Love the boat! getting a few more options installed when i winterize it but some were not in yet so rather than drive it all the way up and back and forth i'm just waiting to do it all when i winterize it. 

i dont trailer much, every blue moon, as i keep my trailer in Fort Wayne, so i'd probably force anyone who wants to come to meet at my lake! 

9 hours ago, WakeSS said:

Demoed a 25 this weekend and don't recall that flat spot. Crisp all the way to the deck. That was stock "surf left" at 10.8 with 900 PNP. But I did not have the length you have In that pic. Hope to take delivery this week and help you find the perfect surf wave!

Were they custom 900's that have the below rough shape? deciding on if 1100-1200 vs something in the 900 range would be best, as i still like to have room for a few jackets and things on top etc.. 

bags.jpg

Edited by The Hulk
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22 hours ago, TallRedRider said:

That is how the NSS works on Nautiques.  The plate that sticks out to the side is adjustable and would do exactly what he is describing.  It also tends to flatten the wave the farther it sticks out.  So he is on to something about making the surfgate tabs adjustable.  I am pretty sure if you could adjust the surfgate, it would have the same effect.  

But like others have said, his wave is looking pretty awesome the way it is.  

I wonder about playing with a little bit of list.  Putting an extra 400 pounds on the surf side would also probably do the trick without losing length or height.  The boat would still be pretty close to level.  

I am struggling with the opposite problem on my Nautique...I would like to flatten the wave a little and push that prop wash a little more away from me.  

Is there really anything wrong with a G series wave? absolutely the best backside wave both sides

15 hours ago, The Hulk said:

love it. I guess I'm somewhat misunderstood not really wanting the whole wave shorter but the top curl firmer or closer so that it would be firmer to pop off the wave to jump or get more air. the cruel is so far back it's hard to pop off the wave, if i get closer to boat where its firmer to pop off the wave there is no curl there to get any pop since it's flat. hope that makes more sense. if i slow down it got pretty steep. I'm anxiousto try more weight and wedge adjustment this weekend just trying to get some advice on what all to try out. do t get me wrong i love it.. it's awesome im not complaining just want to get more pop off the wave and get it dialed in

@85 Barefoot i do drain on way back and resting on lift now but there is still a ton of water left if i dont drive for seveal mins with bbow rise to get al the water out.

I get a lot out just clogging up our not so buzy launch and run pumps sitting on trailer on steeper part of ramp

43 minutes ago, The Hulk said:

@bcoppess23 i live in Fort Wayne, IN, but i have a cottage on Snow Lake (Lake James Chain) up on Angola/Fremont Indiana area just south of MI border by hwy 80/90 & I69.

i purchased from Skiers Pier up in MI about 2:45min north of there. Love the boat! getting a few more options installed when i winterize it but some were not in yet so rather than drive it all the way up and back and forth i'm just waiting to do it all when i winterize it. 

i dont trailer much, every blue moon, as i keep my trailer in Fort Wayne, so i'd probably force anyone who wants to come to meet at my lake! 

Were they custom 900's that have the below rough shape? deciding on if 1100-1200 vs something in the 900 range would be best, as i still like to have room for a few jackets and things on top etc.. 

bags.jpg

No way on less weight, it makes no wave sense especially when you raise wedge completely for a skim style wake it would have less push with aft higher than lower, I run 850's in an A20 locker snd there is plenty room on top of bags, why don't folks want to weight down these huge hulls? Use the the long one level shaped bags like my 50x20x20 but for you its 1100 lb equivalent 

Edited by granddaddy55
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14 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

I know exactly what you mean.  The 4ish feet between the front of the wave and the swim platform is just not really that surfable.  Lots of boats are like that.  Nothing to complain about when you have a really long wave.  just surf the "back" 2/3 of the wave and call it a day.  Plenty of room.

Oh yes it is bad a** on that four feet for backside in both sides , one problem at the 5th foot the Lip is there  but lip not solid and the axis wave will let you slip  over the falls if you get to aggressive in your heelside back grind push of the fins, I live in that four feet for backside because that is where your back hand carves are fastest

On August 29, 2016 at 11:33 AM, The Hulk said:

is there a way to somehow manager how far SG tabs stick out? i feel that it should be adjustable like the wedge IMO. i havent looked into the settings to see if it is does anyone know?

My friend has a 2012 MX and his wave is obviously not as tall or long and wasnt that great but then he added Suck Gate and it cleaned up nicely. its short but firm. 

i have only surfed a handful of times behind my boat, while its about impossible to fall out of the long wave i'm looking to make it shorter for some other kind of tricks and figured if the tabs were adjustable to reduce SG affect it would help with that

pic of my wave with wifey surfin. 

2016 25 LSV, wedge 3rd position, 750s in the back, 8-9 people in boat (NO Bow bag) but 1 person in the front.

i'd like to see if there is a way to adjust to bring the "curl" closer to the boat so to speak

 

emsurf1.jpg

emsurf2.jpg

Simple drop the wedge all the way snd it will shorten wave and strengthen your lip

On August 29, 2016 at 11:50 AM, mrnate450r said:

Try slowing down. Also, little to no bow weight. I'm not sure how short of a wave that beast will make, but the wave you have already is awesome!!

Just slow down and keep the nose weight, our wave was clean as butter on the face at 9.8 and jacked up

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It's what rugby and 42 mph barefooting one foot one hands for the whole canal and the head over heals 3 times falls with scorpion included can do to a young mind I no longer have so I hope the imprint lasts

Edited by granddaddy55
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23 hours ago, TallRedRider said:

That is how the NSS works on Nautiques.  The plate that sticks out to the side is adjustable and would do exactly what he is describing.  It also tends to flatten the wave the farther it sticks out.  So he is on to something about making the surfgate tabs adjustable.  I am pretty sure if you could adjust the surfgate, it would have the same effect.  

But like others have said, his wave is looking pretty awesome the way it is.  

I wonder about playing with a little bit of list.  Putting an extra 400 pounds on the surf side would also probably do the trick without losing length or height.  The boat would still be pretty close to level.  

I am struggling with the opposite problem on my Nautique...I would like to flatten the wave a little and push that prop wash a little more away from me.  

i may be wrong but i thought Supra/MB/Nautique Tabs or whatever u wanna call them on those boats were adjustable or had multiple positions? is Malibu the only one that does not? i mean come on now fellas for $160k it should IMO is all i'm saying! haha. Even on the old moombas with manual wave creator thing it had 2 or 3 positions as well i thought. I just find it a little hard to believe that with SG its all or nothing and that adjusting it would make NO difference in the wave? it simply has to make "some difference"" whether good or bad the others are doing it if thats correct?

 If i look at my SG compared to my old boat it seems like 2X the size,.. When SG size/surface area increased then malibu's waves got longer right? 

i would think it to be a simple software update for the touch screen menu and programming, but i'm not sure how software based the touch screen is if it can be changed by malibu for where buttons etc are and or add them, something similar to the wedge with multiple position options... would be cool non the less and give people the option to play around with it at least. 

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21 minutes ago, The Hulk said:

i may be wrong but i thought Supra/MB/Nautique Tabs or whatever u wanna call them on those boats were adjustable or had multiple positions? is Malibu the only one that does not? i mean come on now fellas for $160k it should IMO is all i'm saying! haha. Even on the old moombas with manual wave creator thing it had 2 or 3 positions as well i thought. I just find it a little hard to believe that with SG its all or nothing and that adjusting it would make NO difference in the wave? it simply has to make "some difference"" whether good or bad the others are doing it if thats correct?

 If i look at my SG compared to my old boat it seems like 2X the size,.. When SG size/surface area increased then malibu's waves got longer right? 

i would think it to be a simple software update for the touch screen menu and programming, but i'm not sure how software based the touch screen is if it can be changed by malibu for where buttons etc are and or add them, something similar to the wedge with multiple position options... would be cool non the less and give people the option to play around with it at least. 

Even though it's not a wedge what their moving is a horizontal surface beneath boat( though I might not know cause I can't see it), this is a vertical surface, the suck gates go out at angle to boat, SG aligns with boat for efficiency in water and similar to airplane the lift is there  with one side flat and the other slightly rounded except we don't need the slow water just it redirected , since suck gate sticks out that far and produced less of a wave, bringing surfgate in would eliminate the water rushing in to eliminate the pressure void from deployed gate, so it would do that less with a less deflected angle and we seem to know from suck gate that further out doesn't make it better ,  you have a Malibu adjust your wedge and load the boat!!!

if I could afford a nauti now that I ride and surf regularly each weekend , I'd go that way and never look back but I can't afford it and I don't hear that much good about others unless they list their modern boats,

fill the nauti with people and it's ridiculous , get folks to change seats and slight slight list and goes to a whole new level above awesome , redonkulous

nauti group acquired centurion do they probably are updating surf control , that wave was the only shoulder high wave I have witnessed thst was dialed up in the middle of my wife's surf, she's 5 3" so wave was 4 6" easy 

Edited by granddaddy55
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17 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

Even though it's not a wedge what their moving is a horizontal surface beneath boat( though I might not know cause I can't see it), this is a vertical surface, the suck gates go out at angle to boat, SG aligns with boat for efficiency in water and similar to airplane the lift is there  with one side flat and the other slightly rounded except we don't need the slow water just it redirected , since suck gate sticks out that far and produced less of a wave, bringing surfgate in would eliminate the water rushing in to eliminate the pressure void from deployed gate, so it would do that less with a less deflected angle and we seem to know from suck gate that further out doesn't make it better ,  you have a Malibu adjust your wedge and load the boat!!!

 

correct Suck Gate works more like an airplane wings Spoiler than a flap or an aileron due to not being aligned with the back hull/trailing edge, so the suck gate is creating "more drag" per say from the "void" and less effective at deflecting, my guess why they are smaller also, and obviously the further back to the edge of the boat the better they work. Surf Gate deflects MORE and is off the BACK trailing edge of the boat making it take much longer for the wave to converge again than via suck gate. (becasue the hull is actually longer on that side deployed. even if SG was extended straight back it would take the water longer on that side to converge helping the surf wave. 

My previous "IDEA" of "Scoop Gate" could be joined with SG. scoop gate would help pull down surf side of boat while "deflecting" the water upwards helping the wave "closer to the boat be taller".... well....in theory..(if you haven't seen Scoop Gate idea) then basically think of two wedges on each side of the back of the boat , surf side would angle down so when driving it would pull that side down further, and if you wanted the opposite side "could" go opposite to deflect that side up more "listing the boat"

 

Anyhow as far as the Adjustable SG deflection amount here is my rough idea of how the results would be.. sorry bad drawing... 

SG-deflection1.jpg

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1 hour ago, The Hulk said:

i may be wrong but i thought Supra/MB/Nautique Tabs or whatever u wanna call them on those boats were adjustable or had multiple positions? is Malibu the only one that does not? i mean come on now fellas for $160k it should IMO is all i'm saying! haha. Even on the old moombas with manual wave creator thing it had 2 or 3 positions as well i thought. I just find it a little hard to believe that with SG its all or nothing and that adjusting it would make NO difference in the wave? it simply has to make "some difference"" whether good or bad the others are doing it if thats correct?

 If i look at my SG compared to my old boat it seems like 2X the size,.. When SG size/surface area increased then malibu's waves got longer right? 

i would think it to be a simple software update for the touch screen menu and programming, but i'm not sure how software based the touch screen is if it can be changed by malibu for where buttons etc are and or add them, something similar to the wedge with multiple position options... would be cool non the less and give people the option to play around with it at least. 

Fair point for sure.  MC Gen2 tabs are 100% adjustable.  From 0 to 100% deployed. Nautique NSS is adjustable from settings 0 to 5 and it dramatically affects the waves.  When I am trying to do more surface tricks surfing, getting a more mellow wave is helpful at times.  And adjusting the NSS accomplishes this

Edited by bamaboy
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Just now, ahopkinsTXi said:

@The Hulk I feel you will be able to accomplish a lot (if not all) of what you describe in your sketches with the wedge and speed. 

My thoughts exactly. I have gosurfassist tabs on my boat. They are adjustable, but I never change their settings, I change wedge position and speed to create the wave shape.

@granddaddy55  you need to surf the M235... it blows the G23 away IMO... Although the only G I have surfed thus far is a demo with 10 people on board... wave was way to short and not the impressive to me... I have surfed better Supra waves than the G.

 

@The Hulk the tabs are bigger. I believe it allows you put more weight in the boat without losing the function of the surfgate (there are post on here where too much ballast rendered the surfgate from functioning properly (as always.. I could be wrong ;))

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4 minutes ago, kerpluxal said:

My thoughts exactly. I have gosurfassist tabs on my boat. They are adjustable, but I never change their settings, I change wedge position and speed to create the wave shape.

@granddaddy55  you need to surf the M235... it blows the G23 away IMO... Although the only G I have surfed thus far is a demo with 10 people on board... wave was way to short and not the impressive to me... I have surfed better Supra waves than the G.

 

@The Hulk the tabs are bigger. I believe it allows you put more weight in the boat without losing the function of the surfgate (there are post on here where too much ballast rendered the surfgate from functioning properly (as always.. I could be wrong ;))

M235: i'd like to try it but heard it was not quite like the 25, didnt get a good understanding of the differences though so im interested to hear if anyone has tried both?.....but an extra $50k for what appears to be nothing different other than slight body difference seems crazy to me, what are you getting for that extra 50k? "got me" ?:dontknow:

 

Tabs: yes it seems to be true sink em too much (no bow weight) and they become less effective on my old boat at least...., adding bow weight brought them back up in line with water line and became effective again (only did this when we really slammed it). to mee it seemed if you sink them to where the backs of the SG tabs are too far below the water then the water your deflecting is not being deflected it just washes right around the SG minimizing its effect/deflection, so newer larger my guess is the answer to us guys loading them up more. 

Edited by The Hulk
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16 minutes ago, The Hulk said:

M235: i'd like to try it but heard it was not quite like the 25, didnt get a good understanding of the differences though so interested by an extra $50k for what appears to be nothing different other than slight body difference seems crazy to me, what are you getting for that extra 50k? "got me" ?

 

Tabs: yes it seems to be true sink em too much (no bow weight) and they become less effective on my old boat at least...., adding bow weight brought them back up in line with water line and became effective again (only did this when we really slammed it). to mee it seemed if you sink them to where the backs of the SG tabs are too far below the water then the water your deflecting is not being deflected it just washes right around the SG minimizing its effect/deflection, so newer larger my guess is the answer to us guys loading them up more. 

I hear you on the M235... I have not priced a decontented one as of yet... They come with everything and the supercharged motor... 

I got to demo the M235 several times and the 25 twice... The comparison was not fair due to first time on 25 the demo lake was not deep enough (5ft - 8ft) and second time the ballast was not fair (500 pnp in rear locker and 2 people in 25 vs 900 pnp and 10 people in M235)

I honestly want to demo them both with my boat and ballast my way (all you can get in there ;) ) I will post pic shortly of M235 wake and my 23 wake..

Can't find my m235 pics 

23 wave can't find any pics of my dialed in wave :( here is one from earlier this  year, and the wave is even better now:

IMG_20160124_153006555_zpswlh65irf.jpg

Edited by kerpluxal
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12 minutes ago, 05hammerhead said:

Maybe try listed...

IME, listing a SG boat doesn't work.  The gates dig into the wave and create a huge, washy line.

 

Plus, the gates on the 25 are like barn doors so it will probably be even worse than prior boats.

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If I go into my setting on the 7" screen, there is a tab that allows me to calibrate surfgate. I have not messed with it, but I am assuming I can not change the angle of the gate through this.?

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24 minutes ago, bbattiste247 said:

If I go into my setting on the 7" screen, there is a tab that allows me to calibrate surfgate. I have not messed with it, but I am assuming I can not change the angle of the gate through this.?

No, this is basically like a reset button for surfgate.  It is used when the gate is stuck in a certain position.  I had to use this a few times on prior boats.  

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On August 29, 2016 at 11:33 AM, The Hulk said:

is there a way to somehow manager how far SG tabs stick out? i feel that it should be adjustable like the wedge IMO. i havent looked into the settings to see if it is does anyone know?

My friend has a 2012 MX and his wave is obviously not as tall or long and wasnt that great but then he added Suck Gate and it cleaned up nicely. its short but firm. 

i have only surfed a handful of times behind my boat, while its about impossible to fall out of the long wave i'm looking to make it shorter for some other kind of tricks and figured if the tabs were adjustable to reduce SG affect it would help with that

pic of my wave with wifey surfin. 

2016 25 LSV, wedge 3rd position, 750s in the back, 8-9 people in boat (NO Bow bag) but 1 person in the front.

i'd like to see if there is a way to adjust to bring the "curl" closer to the boat so to speak

 

emsurf1.jpg

emsurf2.jpg

Oh, for the love of God...

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On August 30, 2016 at 6:26 AM, saxton15 said:

Let's say you could adjust the gates.  Bringing them in closer or to the stowed position would flatten the wave in my mind.  The boat is weighed evenly, so reducing the amount of water deflection from the non-surf side would just wash out the wave.  I don't see how incremental adjustments would make a steeper face.  Maybe the DIY suck gate guys can chime in on this one.  

You guys will hate me for this but less angle on the surfgate is EXACTLY what he needs. That and metric ton more weight. You have such a big hull. I run 4000 total weight and my wave is still maybe only 2/3 your size. You gotta sink that puppy @DarkSide style. 

I ran tests this past couple of weeks an I haven't updated any of the suck gate threads but if I want a big tall and super steep wave I run my 8-9 inch suck gate (actually @Michigan boarder has my original now). I made a big 11-12 inch suck gate which is more like surfgate size and it lengthens my wave out like @The Hulk 's wave shown above. 

So hulk man if you want that steepness you might want to try a smaller suck gate (15-17.5 angle and a 7x9 paddle). I won't be down to the lake for a couple of weeks but I would be happy to send you one to try if you cover material costs and shipping (probably 40-50 bucks total). You can give it to any old poor souls without surfgate when you are done playing with it  

The paddle size (surfgate or suck gate) in my poor mans tests made a pretty big difference. I think you will end up on your surfgate wave soon enough but I would bet if you tried a small suck gate you might get closer to what you are looking for.  Less angle on the boat (less delayed convergence) will make the wave form closer to the platform and thus feel steeper and taller.

I can give you the sku for the floating pvc vinyl at Home Depot (it's 50 bucks a piece and one will make 4-6 suck gates) and you can get suction cups from harbor freight for 8 bucks. You could build a few different sizes and report back.

then all you need is a miter saw, some deck screws and about 30-60 minutes of time for your first one.

you are certifiable for wanting to alter that sick wave though...

 

 

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