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Ndawg12

Power Wedge Wiring Questions Continue

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Ndawg12

So I replaced my actuators this weekend and that ended up not being the problem.  I did figure out why I can't seem to find the "resettable fuse".  The red wire coming out of the control box runs to my breaker panel and to the "Heater #2" 15 amp breaker.  It kept popping and is now completely fried.  I relocated the red wire to a fuse bank that I put in for my reversible pumps.  So now its on a 20 amp fuse.  If I unhook the wire harness, the gauge will reset to stowed.  If I try to deploy the wedge it sounds like it sends intermittent power to the actuators (like surging) for a few seconds then the breaker pops and the wedge only moved down a little bit.  Unplug and replug the wire harness and the gauge resets to stowed, but the actuators don't move.  Right now the actuators are stuck in the middle.  Do these control boxes go bad?  Anyone replaced a box that had similar symptoms?  What else can I check?

Also noticed that the wires from the actuators splice into a single black wire and a single white wire, run along the gunnel, and then split again to the control box.  Is that normal?

Any and all input would appreciated.

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Ndawg12

Wow, thanks for all the help...

Tonight I confirmed its not the control box as @jcon44was nice enough to let me swap boxes from his 07 lsv to confir, and also let me peak around at his wiring and confirm that both actuator leads are spliced together at the transom and the split again at the wire harness. 

What else I learned/confirmed tonight is that:

- 2 red wires coming out of the harness splice down to 1 and go to a 20 amp fused power source  ( coincidently my friends wiring didn't lead to the famous resettable 20 amp fuse either but rather  to some unknown breaker much like mine did )

- 2 black wires are spliced together and grounded securely to the common buss on the dash  

- I don't see any problems with the blue, green, and white wires that go to the momentary wedge switch  

- the purple wire goes to the ignition and appears secure

- then there's a black, brown/white and  a green/white wire that I assume go to the gauge...?

- and all that's left is the actuator wires  that are spliced back into pairs at the harness

Before I assume a short and run some dummy wires all the way back from the actuators to the harness, are there any other thoughts on any other wires being the culprit base on the symptoms I described above?

 

image_zpsauimky30.jpeg

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ndawg12

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wdr

It sounds like too much mechanical resistance is creating too much of a load for the electrical system if that makes sense. Are the actuators working as designed not under load, free of the wedge? The wedge hasn't been reinstalled incorrectly creating too much resistance for the actuators? My wedge has threaded pivot bolts, if installed incorrectly the pivot pins will run out of thread and the wedge will bind and stop moving if the pivot pins are not centered in the wedge housing and actual wedge. If it ain't the brains, it's got to be the a**! That's all I have for you. Good luck, Bill.

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Ndawg12
On 9/1/2016 at 10:58 PM, wdr said:

It sounds like too much mechanical resistance is creating too much of a load for the electrical system if that makes sense. Are the actuators working as designed not under load, free of the wedge? The wedge hasn't been reinstalled incorrectly creating too much resistance for the actuators? My wedge has threaded pivot bolts, if installed incorrectly the pivot pins will run out of thread and the wedge will bind and stop moving if the pivot pins are not centered in the wedge housing and actual wedge. If it ain't the brains, it's got to be the a**! That's all I have for you. Good luck, Bill.

Well I checked out the a$$ and I don't think that's it either.  I cut the wires back near the transom where both blacks and whites are spliced together into a single wire each.  I hooked it up to my little 12volt battery and ran the wedge up and down several times.  I guess I'll start swapping out wires...

 

IMG_1739_zpsai3smvqq.jpg

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Ndawg12

So I messed with this again this weekend.  The wedge will deploy and stowe no problem with the wires hooked directly to a battery.  When I plug the box back in and hit deploy I can hear them surging, trying to deploy for a half second or so every couple seconds, if I hold the button down longer than 10 seconds or so then I pop my 20amp fuse.  One thing I noticed, if you look at the 2 red power wires, they splice into a smaller single wire that goes to my fuse.  I'll try to splice in a heavier gauge wire in next time I'm out.  Anything others suggestions? 

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Molarbu

I have zero leads for you but I'm in awe of the picture/diagram you made above.  That is gold for the next guy who comes along with a similar problem.  <--Probably me

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BearCreekBum

Have you measured the voltage at the splice near the transom when you try to deploy? Sounds like maybe you have low voltage at the actuators which is causing the higher current.

If possible I would try to check the continuity of the black and white wires going to the actuators.

Just a thought.

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Ndawg12
On 9/26/2016 at 2:33 PM, Molarbu said:

I have zero leads for you but I'm in awe of the picture/diagram you made above.  That is gold for the next guy who comes along with a similar problem.  <--Probably me

Well thank you, one minor correction, the purple wire goes to the ignition, not the transmission :Doh:

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shawndoggy

Nate -- when I was installing a reversible pump for my bow ballast last month, I seriously blew through like 12 20a fuses while testing the install.  The pump would fill but when I'd go to drain, "POP!" there went a fuse.  It drove me nuts and I went so far as getting set to rewire the whole shebang before I decided to double check the wiring at the carling switch.  Sure enough, I'd wired it wrong.

I only mention that story because it sounds kinda like you are having a similar issue -- use switch and fuse pops.  have you had someone check to make sure both actuators are running for the second or two that they surge?  Since they are reversible, is it possible that one is wired up backwards from the other and they fight each other till the fuse pops?

The PW worked before you unwired the switch, right?

Edited by shawndoggy

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Ndawg12
14 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

Nate -- when I was installing a reversible pump for my bow ballast last month, I seriously blew through like 12 20a fuses while testing the install.  The pump would fill but when I'd go to drain, "POP!" there went a fuse.  It drove me nuts and I went so far as getting set to rewire the whole shebang before I decided to double check the wiring at the carling switch.  Sure enough, I'd wired it wrong.

I only mention that story because it sounds kinda like you are having a similar issue -- use switch and fuse pops.  have you had someone check to make sure both actuators are running for the second or two that they surge?  Since they are reversible, is it possible that one is wired up backwards from the other and they fight each other till the fuse pops?

The PW worked before you unwired the switch, right?

Yes it worked before, upon reinstall I had my wires wrong on the switch but fixed that after looking at my buddies 07 23lsv wiring at the switch.  He was nice enough to even let me swap wedge control boxes and the problem followed.  I pulled the red power wire off of a 15amp breaker that it was hooked to and attached it to a fused distribution box that I installed for my reversible pumps.  So I've pretty much eliminated the actuators, wiring at the switch, and the control box.  I'll double check my wiring connections again but if that all checks out then it has to be a power supply issue to the control box right?

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shawndoggy

could you have burned up the switch?  Is it just a carling dpdt momentary switch?  Seems like you've eliminated almost everything else, right?  Actuators work, switched out a working control box and that doesn't work. Have you tried swapping out a switch body?

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Ndawg12

Great idea, and I have a couple extras that I can swap in!!

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Ndawg12
On 9/28/2016 at 8:38 AM, shawndoggy said:

could you have burned up the switch?  Is it just a carling dpdt momentary switch?  Seems like you've eliminated almost everything else, right?  Actuators work, switched out a working control box and that doesn't work. Have you tried swapping out a switch body?

I soooooo wanted the Shawndoggy to be right again and I could do this, :Doh:  But it wasn't the switch, I hooked up a dpdt (not momentary) switch so that I didn't need someone holding the switch while I checked what the actuators were doing.  Not sure why but they didn't blow a fuse this time.  Once again ( like the 4th time now ) I wired them straight to a battery and ran them up and down several times with no binding or any problems.  So stumped on this...

 

 

Edited by Ndawg12

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wdr

Just an observation, @54-56 sec mark your right side Lenco actuator leg connected to the wedge appears to be spinning and the left on isn't! Never mind, just a rogue bug doing laps on the actuator. It does sound like only one actuator is actually working though. You might want to replicate that test and grab the actuators to see if that is in fact the case.

Edited by wdr

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Ndawg12
17 hours ago, wdr said:

Just an observation, @54-56 sec mark your right side Lenco actuator leg connected to the wedge appears to be spinning and the left on isn't! Never mind, just a rogue bug doing laps on the actuator. It does sound like only one actuator is actually working though. You might want to replicate that test and grab the actuators to see if that is in fact the case.

Another good idea, but it will stow just fine.  I thought maybe the flow of water is helping it come back up, but i actually anchored by a sand bar and had a buddy push the button while i manually spun the paddlewheel.  It came back up just fine.  But next time out I will disconnect the actuators from the wedge and verify they're both working.  

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wdr

If you have an actuator that is intermittently stuck/dead or an electrical connection that is sketchy, it would definitely keep you in the crazy mode. I would disconnect the bottom of the actuators from the wedge and let them hang and try the switch again to see which one is the culprit.

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Ndawg12
Just now, wdr said:

If you have an actuator that is intermittently stuck/dead or an electrical connection that is sketchy, it would definitely keep you in the crazy mode. I would disconnect the bottom of the actuators from the wedge and let them hang and try the switch again to see which one is the culprit.

Yeah, I'm about to snip every associated wire about 1" from the harness and rewire the whole damn thing!!  But I'm still double and triple checking all the other components.  Assuming everything is wired and working correctly, the question then is, what would create power surging on deployment but not while stowing?  The reason I think it's surging is because you can hear in the video that they run then stop, run then stop, and so on and when the wedge is fully deployed the pattern continues.  Rather than 1 constantly running and the other not at all or 1 running constantly and the other surging, either way it would be binding and you would atleast hear 1 of them running constantly. :dontknow:  So weird and frustrating!!

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wdr

IIRC the actuators are screw type. If that is the case or if they are RAM type instead, any resistance to the screw or the RAM once encountered would replicate the surge that is being heard. So it isn't really a surge, just the actuator trying to overcome the resistance. If you haven't messed with the electrical side of the wedge up to this point it is very unlikely that that is the problem unless you have a wire or connection that has some how gone bad. I am betting on the actuators before an electrical issue. 

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Ndawg12
2 minutes ago, wdr said:

IIRC the actuators are screw type. If that is the case or if they are RAM type instead, any resistance to the screw or the RAM once encountered would replicate the surge that is being heard. So it isn't really a surge, just the actuator trying to overcome the resistance. If you haven't messed with the electrical side of the wedge up to this point it is very unlikely that that is the problem unless you have a wire or connection that has some how gone bad. I am betting on the actuators before an electrical issue. 

It was doing this exact same thing with the old actuators, imagine my frustration, when I replaced them :mad:

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wdr

Could be a bad replacement actuator, it has happened to me on other electrical items. The scary part about that is I used to see the "No returns on electrical parts" signs hanging on the front of a lot of auto parts places. I guess it depends on who you are dealing with. The good idea fairy has left me at this point. Good luck, Bill.

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BearCreekBum

Can you measure the voltage at the transom connections while the wedge is being deployed? Just trying to confirm that you have a constant 12 volts at the actuators while trying to deploy.

Strange that it doesn't surge in both directions since I assume the Lenco box just reverses the polarity to the actuators.

Sorry grasping at straws. 

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BearCreekBum

Ndawg,

Can you reverse the wires at the switch or the actuators so that the deploy position will actually try and stow? At least you could see if the surging follows the switch or the actuators.

Just another thought. 

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Ndawg12

I did that and nothing happened but I may have needed to be spinning the paddlewheel. I have a couple things to try. Thanks for the help so far guys :thumbup:  

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Ndawg12

Now that the garage is pretty much done (my big winter project) it's finally time to start getting the boat ready for another awesome summer, and I've still got this wedge issue.  I've done most, if not all, of the suggestions above to no avail.  Still trying to figure out the surging issue.  The voltmeter leads are connected directly to the actuator wires coming out of the control box.  The constant noise you hear is the paddlewheel spinning at 8 mph so that I would be able to run the wedge up and down whenever I needed.

 

Edited by Ndawg12

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Ndawg12

So I may have found my issue...I hooked a 12v/6amp charger up to my batteries and the wedge went up and down with no issues (all other components, switch, gauge, control box, all wiring, etc. hooked up properly).  So although the batteries show good voltage (ranging from 12.1 to 12.4), it appears they are to weak in some other aspect....?

Edited by Ndawg12

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