2017 LSV 23 - Wetsounds Stereo

[Stevo]

I'll give a +1 on the q-bomb (1.5yrs here)

I gave mine a bead of silicone on the inside seams, and then sprayed the inside with bed liner spray just to be on the safe side.

[Fman]

 I went naked inside and still no problems! 

[SimonWS]

24 minutes ago, Fman said:

wetsounds1 @simonWS is the Malibu WS sub box comparable to this box? (I am not kidding either, seriously...) this Qbomb is 1.3 cu ft sealed and well built for $56, have been using it for the past two years with zero problems and great results.  I am pretty sure this one does not leak any air either.

Gimme some of that Qbomb! 

@Fman I'm really not sure.  I like to speak from experience and I don't have any with that box.  However, it's within tolerance for sealed box spec for the XS-12.  I'm sure I could make it sound good if that's what I got to work with.

[Fman]

I guess we can assume the box WS ('17 Malibu) is using will be leaps and bounds better than this $56 Qbomb, especially for the price of this system that is going into a new wake setter.  I know if I were to end up going with a factory installed system I would really hope it was ALL installed with high level components and materials.

[IXFE]

As I mentioned earlier I demo'd the new system at AWS a few days ago. Actually "demo" is too strong a word because I only listened to two songs and we were not on the water (more on that later). I was mainly interested in two things:

1) how the new gear sounds - mainly a WS thing, and

2) all the little details of the integration and user experience - mainly a Medallion thing. 

The boat was a 2017 24 MXZ.  It had the full cabin setup, including subwoofer.  But AWS did not order tower speakers. Obviously this was an early '17 build and AWS didn't understand the that simply adding an amp and tower speakers was no longer that simple. We talked about that and realized with the new system Malibu is making life hard on dealers who order boats without factory tower speakers and add them later.  This gives dealers some flexibility...  customers have different preferences, budgets, etc.  Sometimes tower speakers can be something used to close a deal. Some customers don't want them at all.  Malibu is clearly trying to increase the "take rate" of factory supplied tower speakers.

sidenote... I also learned the G3.5 tower is no longer pre-wired from the factory.  Seems Bu really really wants us to order factory towers speakers.

Also, I always had the volume on the phone set at 75%.  This is the same way I've run iPhone or iPod volume since 2009.  I leave it there and then control volume from the boat (in this case using the sport knob).

I should also note that I used the same two songs, steamed Bluetooth via Apple Music, that I always use when evaluating a boat system.  I've literally heard these songs hundreds of times in my own boats (and many others boats) during install and tuning sessions. So I have a pretty good baseline.  That said, everybody's ears are different... I get that. This review is what MY ears and eyes experienced. YMMV  

Anyway, in the order previously mentioned...

SOUND

I'll skip the end and say that this system is a HUGE improvement over the old RF system (already stated by others... I'm just confirming). The sound is very clean and the bass makes a good, solid thump.  Even without taking it apart, It's clear the enclosure execution is better than before (not sure that's saying much). It even shakes the floor a bit.  I think @Ronniewas right in saying it will sound GREAT to 80% of buyers.  But I disagree with Tim's statement that it "rivals most custom systems."  Let me explain...

As you all know I've had a variety of custom systems to compare to. Most my buddies have them too (various brands and configurations). With that as my baseline, I have two gripes with this system... (one minor, one major).  Keep in mind these concerns are mine and mine alone based on MY expectations inside a boat.

1) minor gripe: while the sub sounded pretty good, it was not as deep or musical as the sealed subs I've had in my boats.  It's probably not fair because this sub is only 500 watts and I've never run less than 800. This year I ran 2,000 to my sub (gained down somewhat). So the low end was a little lacking for my taste. But like I said above, less discriminating buyers will get into this boat at the boat show or in the showroom, hear the sub pounding away, feel a bit of floor shake, and smile!  But for me, since I'm listening back to back with my custom system, I could easily hear the difference. I didn't think there was as much midbass from the cabins either, but that could be the absence of sub contributing to that perception.  Not sure.  I'd like to go back and listen to my boat vs the new boat back to back with the sub and tower turned off to isolate the 8" cabins.  Wish I'd done that  

2) bigger gripe: with the iPhone volume set at 75%, I could not make the system all that loud. You'll see in most of my pics below we had the boat volume maxed to really try to jam out the way I'm used to on my boats. Keep in mind, we were sitting stationary in the trailer in a quiet, covered, parking lot. It reminded me of when you're surfing and can't get the speed past 10.5mph. Or when you're in the shower and it takes max heat just to get the temp where you want it. There's just nothing left. I really wanted to make it 10% louder or at least know the system had the legs to get there. I'm more accustomed to being able to jam out a little bit louder. Even when I'm not jamming I like knowing I have that headroom. I'm sure this is a tuning thing (i.e. gains probably set low). Regardless, I'm concerned it will be an issue on the water when you're going 20-30 mph, competing with wind and engine noise, etc.  To know for sure I'd need to get it out on the water.  If the past is any indication, I have a feeling that Bu/WS has made this impossible to remedy.  

Integration / User Experience

I've been pretty vocal about this in the past. If you recall my '15 LSV had factory audio, including four Rev8's. The Bluetooth was buggy, the sport knob exhibited latency, and the system had tons of background noise. I gotta admit... What a difference two years makes!  Zero noise in this system. Bluetooth functionality and range was great (I tested range back to the way to the swim platform). And my biggest shock... THE SPORT KNOB WORKS GREAT!!  No matter how fast I spun that thing, the volume kept up with zero lag.   

The controls in the 7" screen worked well and the layout was pretty easy to figure out. My only issue is the zone volume control. Kudos to Bu for giving us this functionality. But it's just not a great user experience on a touch screen. Touching the screen 15 times to get the towers to turn off is just a pain. However, I did discover a cool workaround to this... You can push a soft button on the lower left corner of the screen to toggle between: main, interior, or tower volume. The sport knob controls whichever one you're on. So if you want to turn the towers way down, just hit that button twice and then your sport knob is controlling the towers only. Still not as good as a 420 or ZLD, but I thought it was pretty clever!  The only issue... for some strange reason they didn't include sub volume in this.  

Part of the reason I value integration in a factory stereo is visibility to what song/artist is playing.  The new system shows this on both screens, but it can't display the entire song all at once (which is amazing to me with all this real estate).  Instead it scrolls through the info at a painfully slow pace... rendering it almost useless.

Okay... Now some pics!! 

 

This is the main stereo screen. Note the artist/title is partially displayed. Also see the that the volume has a touch control on the left side. You can control it from there or using the sport knob (the knob is easier). Also note that it says "main volume" and I have it MAXED OUT.

Here is the same screen only notice that by pushing the soft button on the bottom left it toggles to "interior volume."  Now the sport knob controls only the cabin speakers (and I'm guessing the sub is lumped into that).

Here are a few other views...

 

The 12" screen with partial artist/title

 

Finally the sub... 

 

Last but definitely NOT least: MSRP pricing...

Base sound pack - $4,522

12" Sub (incl. amp) - $907

Rev8's (first pair) - $1,910

Rev8's (second pair) - $1,805

Tower Amp - $1,067

GRAND TOTAL - $10,211

[surfdude]

Love your write up! IXFE! But really , you and all of us know what we could do with 10k for a sound system. 

[teamerickson]

Thank you so much for the great write up. 

I sat in one today and too noticed the volume seemed lacking. That is concerning. 

Glad you noticed the soft button for faster control of zones. I was in the main screen thinking it takes forever to change the zones. 

[shawndoggy]

Why only set iPhone at 75%?  

[teamerickson]

I sometimes notice it will distort easier. 

Edited September 3, 2016 by teamerickson

[tn_rider]

I know it sucks, and it may not be an option. But Bluetooth always lacks in volume and quality. It's just a fact. I run a wired connection all the time. It's a much cleaner/louder sound. Always.

[shawndoggy]

I only ever use BT but I've never noticed that full volume makes a difference in signal quality.  I mean it's just 1s and 0s going through the air, right?  What is there to distort? Can a bluetooth signal "clip"?  I have never noticed if so.  

Edited September 3, 2016 by shawndoggy

[Ronnie]

I suspect that some of the lower sound volume on IXFE's review was due to no tower speakers. Lot of difference on my boat with the towers turned down or off and max volume. I think 75% of volume on the phone may be a little excessive too. I usually run mine around 85-90% and notice no distortion. 

[teamerickson]

I have the exile BT. That has a high level RCA output. Maybe it's just me, but it seemed liked with the volume on the phone all the way up I noticed easier clipping at really high volumes. So, I just leave the phone volume around 80%. 

Maybe the new system was optimized with phone volume all the way up? 

[shawndoggy]

4 minutes ago, teamerickson said:

I have the exile BT. That has a high level RCA output. Maybe it's just me, but it seemed liked with the volume on the phone all the way up I noticed easier clipping at really high volumes. So, I just leave the phone volume around 80%. 

Maybe the new system was optimized with phone volume all the way up? 

Really high volumes of what?  You mean so with your stereo at conversational levels (master volume) but getting a BT signal from the phone at max, that the moderate level of sound coming from your stereo sounds distorted?  I've never heard that.

Now if what you are saying is that you are able to turn the master volume up high enough to make the sound distort when you have the phone at max volume, that's a different thing.  That would mean that either the source (exile BT) is being overdriven at your EQ (i.e. the input gains on the eq need to be turned down) or the gains on your amps are set too high.  In that case I can see how using the phone as your "governor" might be useful.

On a pro-tuned 2017 factory system, though, I'd assume that wetsounds would assume that consumers would be using their BT phones at full BT volume.  Maybe @SimonWS could weigh in on that?

Edited September 3, 2016 by shawndoggy

[teamerickson]

Just now, shawndoggy said:

Now if what you are saying is that you are able to turn the master volume up high enough to make the sound distort when you have the phone at max volume, that's a different thing.  That would mean that either the source (exile BT) is being overdriven at your EQ (i.e. the input gains on the eq need to be turned down) or the gains on your amps are set too high.  In that case I can see how using the phone as your "governor" might be useful.

^^^Yes. That's what I meant. 

[whatshesaid]

I have been under the impression also that you should not run your phone (iphone 6plus) at max volume,, because its like running you radio at full volume, and you will get distortion? I would love for

someone to explain this. Also what is the max volume on my factory radio (2016 23LSV) before distortion?

 

[David]

On the KingStarboard subject, most of what I have seen used OEM on a towboat has been a less dense, less oily version of KingStarboard, another product in the HDPE group, that looks the same but has a little different chemistry. Mostly K.S. is reserved for exposed applications, like an exterior hatch on a cruiser or motor yacht for example, where the edges must be polished to a perfect high gloss and it has to endure endless hours of UV exposure. In my experience, you can't paint nor adhere to the true K.S. material like you can with other similar HDPE products, not when you need real structural integrity. But again, there are material variations within the HDPE polymer family where certain adhesives do work. 

I can't imagine Malibu returning to any wood-based product for any reason.  

Yes, MDF is micro-porous until laminated or sealed by some others means. There is always a calculated output loss with MDF but it is too slow and too minimal to be of concern as applied to a sub enclosure. Nothing as bad as passing a speaker wire through MDF with nothing more than a caulk seal.           

[SimonWS]

5 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

Really high volumes of what?  You mean so with your stereo at conversational levels (master volume) but getting a BT signal from the phone at max, that the moderate level of sound coming from your stereo sounds distorted?  I've never heard that.

Now if what you are saying is that you are able to turn the master volume up high enough to make the sound distort when you have the phone at max volume, that's a different thing.  That would mean that either the source (exile BT) is being overdriven at your EQ (i.e. the input gains on the eq need to be turned down) or the gains on your amps are set too high.  In that case I can see how using the phone as your "governor" might be useful.

On a pro-tuned 2017 factory system, though, I'd assume that wetsounds would assume that consumers would be using their BT phones at full BT volume.  Maybe @SimonWS could weigh in on that?

@IXFE @shawndoggyThe system is optimized to run your phone volume at MAX.  We used the few most popular devices to check gains with BT.  All of the phones have different BT output signal so there is some variance depending on which phone you have.

The guys replying in this thread are a little more cautious of sound and have self control but we have to keep in mind of what most people do when out on the water.  I've seen it hundreds of times when a couple of drinks go down then the volume goes to max if it wasn't already.  Because we optimized for max phone volume you shouldn't see any significant distortion since we use a wide range of music genres when tuning them.

On the subject of if the tower speakers aren't ordered.  A dealer can order through Malibu the parts to add on to the system.  They can also do this if they don't option the subwoofer.

Thanks for the feedback!

Simon

Wet Sounds

1 hour ago, David said:

On the KingStarboard subject, most of what I have seen used OEM on a towboat has been a less dense, less oily version of KingStarboard, another product in the HDPE group, that looks the same but has a little different chemistry. Mostly K.S. is reserved for exposed applications, like an exterior hatch on a cruiser or motor yacht for example, where the edges must be polished to a perfect high gloss and it has to endure endless hours of UV exposure. In my experience, you can't paint nor adhere to the true K.S. material like you can with other similar HDPE products, not when you need real structural integrity. But again, there are material variations within the HDPE polymer family where certain adhesives do work. 

I can't imagine Malibu returning to any wood-based product for any reason.  

Yes, MDF is micro-porous until laminated or sealed by some others means. There is always a calculated output loss with MDF but it is too slow and too minimal to be of concern as applied to a sub enclosure. Nothing as bad as passing a speaker wire through MDF with nothing more than a caulk seal.           

They are using the King StarLite XL which is similar to StarBoard, but slightly different.

Wood is definitely out of the question due to durability.  I mentioned it before because I wanted to make some comparisons to MDF with the new material because of how popular MDF is for enclosures.

4 hours ago, whatshesaid said:

I have been under the impression also that you should not run your phone (iphone 6plus) at max volume,, because its like running you radio at full volume, and you will get distortion? I would love for

someone to explain this. Also what is the max volume on my factory radio (2016 23LSV) before distortion?

 

@whatshesaid With the new OEM system from Malibu you are able to max the stereo volume through the Viper screen and also max your phone volume out.  We worked with Medallion to ensure volume limits were set in place to where the headunit will not distort.

Crank it up all the way and enjoy!

[Fman]

@wetsounds1 @simonws 

Maybe this question was already asked.... Why does Malibu keep using the "shelf" mounts when we all know the G3 has much better WS swivel mounts available?  Those shelf mounts look like an afterthought to me.  Can you order the system with the nicer swivel mounts WS offers?  and also to clarify you are not able to order the REV 10s?

[SimonWS]

Just now, Fman said:

@wetsounds1 @simonws 

Maybe this question was already asked.... Why does Malibu keep using the "shelf" mounts when we all know the G3 has much better WS swivel mounts available?  Those shelf mounts look like an afterthought to me.  Can you order the system with the nicer swivel mounts WS offers?  and also to clarify you are not able to order the REV 10s?

The swivel mounts for the Malibu tower speakers are available from them as an option for both towers.  They use the swivel bases only and mount right to the bracket or tower (G4).

[Fman]

Just now, SimonWS said:

The swivel mounts for the Malibu tower speakers are available from them as an option for both towers.  They use the swivel bases only and mount right to the bracket or tower (G4).

Are the shelf mounts standard, and are the swivel mounts are extra charge?  or do you have the option to select your choice for same price?

[SimonWS]

The swivel bases mount directly to the shelf bracket on G3.5 tower.  The tower speakers are direct mount as standard (can't swivel), then swivels are additional option.  Both of those bolt directly to the shelf.

[teamerickson]

@SimonWSJust to clarify, you can order the rev8s on the tower bracket not the shelf for same price?

[SimonWS]

The shelf bracket is the only bracket available from Malibu for the G3 towers.  When optioning the tower speakers through Malibu, the swivels are available as an option and still mount to the shelf bracket.

[teamerickson]

Sorry. Went back a read your posts again. 

Can we adjust the volume or gains of the medallion or amps?