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Claire1000

Boat Buying Advice Needed

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Claire1000

I just sold our 2004 Wakesetter 21 XTI so that we can upgrade. I'm looking for some advice please. 

20-23. Size not a big deal to us. We do want the open interior layout of a vdrive.

We normally wakeboard, but I blew a knee, and we're getting older, so are now playing on the wakeskate and figure we are going to get into surfing. We have never tried surfing. We also want to tow kids on a tube occasionally. 

Originally I was thinking of something in the 2009/2010 range. Wanting to stay under 250 hours. However, I've learned about the surfgates and such, and am trying to figure out if they really are worth the extra money a newer model would run. I'm a righty and husband is a lefty. Also, I'm not real into creature comforts, so the Axis looks really interesting to me. 

I do like to get out the old ski occasionally, which may suck regardless of which bu or axis we go with. 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

 

 

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RedOwl

Without knowing your budget it is difficult to make recommendations, but based on the 'needs' you listed, I think you would benefit greatly from a Surfgate-equipped boat. Hopefully you can stretch a bit beyond your '09/'10 budget and fall into an Axis or 'Bu that has Surfgate.

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wdr

I have a '10 LSV w/o the surf gate, running a DIY gate which I switch sides on ocassion w 2000lbs extra ballast and 90% surf and 10% boarding. I am not sure of the current prices for 09/10 w low hours but I am guessing in the 50k range at least my friends 09 LSV was 55k w 290 hrs this summer. If I was in your position and money was not an problem then I would look for a SG equipped boat so you both can enjoy it. Honestly if you are getting away from boarding and are going to start focusing on surfing that would be your smartest move in all respects. For me the loss of switching sides has not been a loss, but for you that would be a real PITA to keep everyone happy when trying to swap sides, bags etc... My wife does occasionally slalom behind ours, but she is in another zip code at the end of the line at 80' so the wave is not too bad for a little while! If money is tight I wouldn't shy away from a low hour boat w/o SG as the new suck gates we all are making is a great addition for switching sides. Yeh you will have to get some additional ballast, but even the SG equipped boats need a little extra from what I have been reading. Hope this helps. Bill

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Idaorr

I read somewhere recently that chaparral is coming out with a surf gate boat that is supposed to be " a game changer"! Come on everyones just mad cause I beat you to it. Ok seriously, 09/10 can be found reasonably but no surf gate, so either some after market surf gate or suck gate. Never been in an axis but are reasonably priced and you get surf gate on newer models. Like red owl stated need a budget and I'm sure we can help spend some of your money. Lots of fun shopping for a new toy. Keep us posted and pictures requested.

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Claire1000

Thanks. Budget is flexible. Don't want to spend more than I have to...like everyone.  Is ballasting a boat that tricky? Just time consuming? Also, this may be a better question for the Axis forum, but what the heck is up with no walk through on the older boats? Is this a big of a pain as I think it is? I often launch the boat by myself, so walking up to the bow to unhook and stuff seems silly if I have to crawl around on cushions and take my shoes off, etc. Can you get a walk through on the A20 or A22? I see videos where there were now added, but can't figure out if that's a year change or an option. 

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wdr

Adding additional ballast "yourself" is scarier than it is hard. Providing you have a garage, some basic tools, reasonable mechanical skills, a well thought out plan and are not in a hurry it was an enjoyable task. For me I can spell electrical, but after that is where I had some problems. ? The new all in one kit options take almost all of the guess work out the job now. The first rule of "boat club", is there are no shoes worn on the boat! ?

Edited by wdr

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Claire1000

Ha. Ya we go no shoes on the boat, but I break my own rule when I'm launching it by myself. Our ramps get busy so I try to be a good boater while I run around like a crazy person. 

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DarkSide

@Claire1000 

Look at the t22, great size, and wake/wave can be very good.  Plus the 22 is light enough you could still ski, although not going to be the same as the dedicated ski tugs

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Claire1000

Skiing is an after thought. Maybe get it out every 5 trips. I assume we will mostly surfing. I also like the fork bows a lot. 

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Sixer

If you are looking to potentially surf, then you should say goodbye to the walk through.  You'll want a front ballast tank, or at least additional ballast added.  And it's not that difficult on the newer models which have the PNP (plug n play) where you can easily hook up extra "bags" to hold water and weigh the boat down.  Usually you can just piggyback it into your factory ballast and when the boat fills the factory tanks, it'll also fill the extra ballast bags. IMO surfgate is totally worth it.  I've said this before in other threads, but I had a 2012 VTX that I bought before I ever surfed.  I love to ski.  Once I surfed, I had to have a boat with surfgate.  It is a true "gamechanger" and totally changed the whole inboard market.  Now almost all inboard boats are equipped with some sort of surf-wave forming technology that makes creating a surf wave easy to do.  Surfing is a blast, and a sport that I can see myself doing as I age.  It's a lot easier to fall off my surfboard going 11mph than when I fall off my ski going 34. Good luck in the search!

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DarkSide

Fork bows are awesome!  I have not tried a22, I would not do a20 as bow area is so big on pickle forks the cabin area gets really small.  

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Claire1000
15 minutes ago, Sixer said:

If you are looking to potentially surf, then you should say goodbye to the walk through.  You'll want a front ballast tank, or at least additional ballast added.  And it's not that difficult on the newer models which have the PNP (plug n play) where you can easily hook up extra "bags" to hold water and weigh the boat down.  Usually you can just piggyback it into your factory ballast and when the boat fills the factory tanks, it'll also fill the extra ballast bags. IMO surfgate is totally worth it.  I've said this before in other threads, but I had a 2012 VTX that I bought before I ever surfed.  I love to ski.  Once I surfed, I had to have a boat with surfgate.  It is a true "gamechanger" and totally changed the whole inboard market.  Now almost all inboard boats are equipped with some sort of surf-wave forming technology that makes creating a surf wave easy to do.  Surfing is a blast, and a sport that I can see myself doing as I age.  It's a lot easier to fall off my surfboard going 11mph than when I fall off my ski going 34. Good luck in the search!

Super helpful. Does the surf gate offset the need for a front ballast tank or not really? 

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Pnwrider
13 minutes ago, Claire1000 said:

Super helpful. Does the surf gate offset the need for a front ballast tank or not really? 

No in fact most would argue it makes having weight up front more important since you will have so much weight in the back (filling up both tanks and plug n play vs one side on a listed boat). A22 would probably be a good compromise of budget and surfgate which makes switching sides so much easier and faster. 

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Claire1000

What mods are folks doing to LSVs without surfgates to get them to surf well? How much weight for a basic beginner that is athletic? 

 

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minnmarker
34 minutes ago, Claire1000 said:

What mods are folks doing to LSVs without surfgates to get them to surf well? How much weight for a basic beginner that is athletic? 

 

Adding surf gates :werule:

Lots of threads. Just search the ballast forum.  You'll learn more than this thread alone will teach.

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Chatty21VLX

There are several iterations of aftermarket surfing gates that range from $175 to $600, or you can make your own for about $50 if you have a couple saws and a drill.

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gordon20mxz

Every time I use my boat for surfing it makes me smile! 

Setting up for surfing is effortless.  Hit the screen to "Fill All Tanks" which fills the 4 hard tanks and the plug and play bags in the back, set the cruise control, put wedge all the way down and set Surf Gate to deploy.  The only thing I physically have to do is watch the plug and play bags fill so right at the end I can bleed off the air.  In less than 10 minutes we are surfing either side.

My son is learning to surf both sides right now and hopefully he will start to learn to cross the wave back and forth.  You have to have a surf system to do this.

I think you should look for a boat with Surf gate which started in 2013 for the Malibu's.

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67King

I would be looking for a 2013 Axis A20.  I'm pretty sure the Surfgate came out on the Axis in 2013?  Reason being is that the boat only weighs 3200 pounds.  They got heavier in 2014.  My older A22 had a ski-able wake.  My VLX, which weighs 800 pounds more, does not.

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Stevo
7 hours ago, Claire1000 said:

What mods are folks doing to LSVs without surfgates to get them to surf well? How much weight for a basic beginner that is athletic? 

 

Where are you located?

i would say the axis T22 is right up your alley. In fact there is a member here that is looking to sell his shortly @teamerickson

i don't believe he runs a bow bag and it puts out a great wave.

if you are getting into surfing and have riders o both sides of the wave, I would recommend a gated boat for the sheer convenience of not having to shift ballast from one side to the other.

wakemakers does make a cross fill ballast set up that drains and fills the opposite sides to make it al little faster, but I still prefer an evenly weighed boat for manuvering.

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Claire1000

We are down in Texas. So y'all are saying ballast alone on an LSV isn't the ticket. An aftermarket gate/shaper is still something to use with them? 

 

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jwl019
Just now, Claire1000 said:

We are down in Texas. So y'all are saying ballast alone on an LSV isn't the ticket. An aftermarket gate/shaper is still something to use with them? 

 

You can surf a boat with just ballast alone, which includes the stock ballast and extra ballast.  Basically you put all the extra ballast on one side so the boat leans to that side. I use a 750# in the rear locker, and 400# on top of seats in the bow pushed to the surf side.  My 2010 VLX throws a nice wave.  Sometimes I add a 400# on the cabin seats if I really want to sac it out.  Takes me 5-7 minutes to swap everything over to the opposite side if someone surfs goofy.  I added 3 Reversible pumps over winter and it made swapping sides easier and more enjoyable than draining each bag with a portable pump over the side and then filling the bags on the opposite side. 

With that said, a surf gate boat is faster to swap sides since you just fill everything up evenly and the gate makes the wave. It takes almost 2x as much weight as a boat without the gate is the only downside, but you can swap sides to ride on in a couple seconds vs few minutes for a listed/leaned boat.

Don't be afraid of a boat with a little higher hours either (shameless plug), most people with the newer boats use theirs more than the old 50 hrs year use average.

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wdr

I ran/run my LSV listed for years with an 1100 surfside and a 750 in the bow and non surfside MLS "empty" before I went to a Suck Gate and thoroughly enjoyed the ride. Same set up now except with a Suck Gate the non surf side MLS is full, it has a better wake is barely listed and more importantly not as weight sensitive when it comes to the passenger seating assignment! A non gated boat works fine, it is just really inconvenient for the passengers is all. I bought my boat new out of Lubbock if you are in that area and I cant say I would recommend that dealer unless things have changed drastically.

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racer808

I would add using a gate makes the wave longer, the extra weight to make the boat even enhances the wave, bigger, more push.  There is a big difference between my listed wave & gated wave.  Listed is very good, but the extra weight & gate give my wave push everywhere, all the way back, in the flats, it's just better

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ahopkinsVTX
1 hour ago, 67King said:

I would be looking for a 2013 Axis A20.  I'm pretty sure the Surfgate came out on the Axis in 2013?  Reason being is that the boat only weighs 3200 pounds.  They got heavier in 2014.  My older A22 had a ski-able wake.  My VLX, which weighs 800 pounds more, does not.

Just a slight correction, Surf Gate for Axis came out in 2014.

I agree with the suggestions for looking for a used T22. I surf one all the time and it is awesome. The 2014 A20 and A22 have surfgate, but the hull isn't as good as the 2014 T22. In 2015 the A22 hull changed and it is much much better. Just spent some time on a 2015 A22 and I have zero complaints about the stock wave with 550 PNP bags in the lockers. Could be really really good with 750's and some extra bow weight. Hull changed for the A20 in 2016. I have no personal experience with the A20 though.

If you are looking at mid-late 2000 LSV's I would think your budget would support a 2014-15 T22 or 15 A22 and I highly suggest it. If you are just getting into surfing you will very much appreciate the ability to change sides, left or right foot forward, with the flip of a switch. And then as you get better the wave will be plenty good to get into 360's, airs, and other tricks.

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Ronnie
1 hour ago, Claire1000 said:

We are down in Texas. So y'all are saying ballast alone on an LSV isn't the ticket. An aftermarket gate/shaper is still something to use with them? 

 

Where are you in Texas? I bet we could set y'all up with a few different boats to get your idea of which boat makes more sense for you.

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