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wakebrdr94

Stereo gremlin....

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wakebrdr94

Ok, I've racked my brain and can't figure this out, so I'm turning to the knowledge base of the experts!

    I'm running a full exile system, two pair SXT9 surf speakers, powered by the xm30.2 amp.  A Javelin pushing the interiors and sub, No head unit, going through the ZLD.  It was a stereo delete, wired myself as @Fman and others have.

   The issue is with the tower speakers.   Everything was awesome until about a month ago, they sound muffled, kind of like the tweeters are not on.  Also at high volume, the tower speakers are cutting out.  Cabin speakers and sub remain on just fine.  Here's what I've tried thus far...

1. Made sure all connections at the amp were tight, good there

2.  I swapped the tower RCAs on the ZLD with the cabin zone, speakers still sounded muffled and the cabin speakers were still just fine.  So not the ZLD

3. Ran new RCAs from the XM30.2 to the ZLD, same sound issue and towers still cutting out.

4. Sent the amp into exile and they sent me a new amp, problem is still there, muffled sound and cuts out at high power.

5. Pulled off the tower brackets to check for loose connection of speaker wire, found one connection that was a little loose, recrimpped, and problem still exists.

So amp is powered correctly, connections are tight, amp is set to HPF @80mHz, gain is less than half.  Sounds like the tweeters are not on, but I can't see all 4 speaker tweeters failing at once, or why the towers are cutting out.  Also when they cut out, some times it is all of them, sometimes one will stay on (varying which one).  So.....

 

what at else can I check?  What am I missing?

 

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OLDGUY

Same Exact problem. I have tried 2 different xm30.2. I now have a JLHD 750/1. Same problem. I by passed the head unit same problem. I have a WS420 by passed it same problem. The JL amp says when there is a short in the speaker wire the amp will go into protect mode and the LED light will change from green to Amber. So I ran new speaker wire from the amp straight to the speakers to check if that was the problem. Same results. I think the speakers are broken. I'm going to call Exile and see if they can fix them.

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wakebrdr94
1 hour ago, OLDGUY said:

Same Exact problem. I have tried 2 different xm30.2. I now have a JLHD 750/1. Same problem. I by passed the head unit same problem. I have a WS420 by passed it same problem. The JL amp says when there is a short in the speaker wire the amp will go into protect mode and the LED light will change from green to Amber. So I ran new speaker wire from the amp straight to the speakers to check if that was the problem. Same results. I think the speakers are broken. I'm going to call Exile and see if they can fix them.

The amp never goes into protect mode, and stays blue the whole time.  

 

Ill check out out the thread david, thanks

So I read that thread, but that appears to be a different issue.  His speaker was not working, mine cut out only at high volume, and sound is muffled.  

I just don't see all 4 speakers failing at once at the exact same time.  I've moved speakers into different locations and still the same issue.  

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OLDGUY

Same results only at high volume does the speakers cut out. If I lower the volume it stops. I moved the speakers around same. I removed one speaker on each side same. I took two speakers off from one side and then changed sides same results. All the speakers work fine until you turn up the volume then they start cutting out. Turn down the volume they work fine. I watch the LED on the amp I slowly turn up the volume when the speakers cut out the LED changes from green to amber. I turn it back down the speakers come back on and the LED changes back to green. Buy the way they all cut out not just one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i

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Fman

I would give Bill and Brian a call at Exile tomorrow, I am sure they can get you going.  Sounds like you have done your due diligence in trying to troubleshoot.  Those guys always seem to have a fix for any issue that comes up.  Probably something simple.  I have been cranking my XM9s for two seasons now with no issues, I do have them setup (gains) to not distort or be over powered at full tilt.  Is there a chance you over powered them and blew something??? I would think it would be highly unlikely, just trying to throw out some ideas.

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OLDGUY

I had some Kicker KMS6500 speakers I could turn up louder with no problems. I have never had them that loud they shut off before they get that loud. I tried turning the volume way down and slowly turning up the gain same results at about the same volume.

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wakebrdr94
55 minutes ago, Fman said:

I would give Bill and Brian a call at Exile tomorrow, I am sure they can get you going.  Sounds like you have done your due diligence in trying to troubleshoot.  Those guys always seem to have a fix for any issue that comes up.  Probably something simple.  I have been cranking my XM9s for two seasons now with no issues, I do have them setup (gains) to not distort or be over powered at full tilt.  Is there a chance you over powered them and blew something??? I would think it would be highly unlikely, just trying to throw out some ideas.

Yeah, I lowered the gain to about 25% and tried to use the volume control from the zld, my iphone, and ipod, same thing, just the towers cut out.  I'm going to try running new speaker wire from the tower bracket straight to the amp to test, that would be the last thing to really check.  Although I do not see it being the speaker wire that would cause cutting out at only high volumes.  Hitting wakes or double ups does not cause the cutting out, so I can't imagine it's a loose wire somewhere.

 

Old guy, did you wire yourself as well?  

 This is my second exile system, and it has sounded great, I just have to think I am missing something for all 4 to go.  

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jonyb

Sounds like the high volume is too high.   They could be clipping and backing themselves off.

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wakebrdr94

I thought that too, but was a non issue before.  Also wouldn't account for the muffled sound at any volume

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Fman

Please report back once you get ahold of Bill and Brian, curious what is happening.

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OLDGUY
14 hours ago, wakebrdr94 said:

Yeah, I lowered the gain to about 25% and tried to use the volume control from the zld, my iphone, and ipod, same thing, just the towers cut out.  I'm going to try running new speaker wire from the tower bracket straight to the amp to test, that would be the last thing to really check.  Although I do not see it being the speaker wire that would cause cutting out at only high volumes.  Hitting wakes or double ups does not cause the cutting out, so I can't imagine it's a loose wire somewhere.

 

Old guy, did you wire yourself as well?  

 This is my second exile system, and it has sounded great, I just have to think I am missing something for all 4 to go.  

Originally a stereo shop installed the WS420 and an Alpine PDX4 to power my kicker speakers. Sold the Kickers and Alpine. I then installed the XM30.2 myself and the new tower speakers. I ran 2 gauge wire positive and negative to the amp. I went to the stereo shop and bought the best speaker wire they had still a no go. I then installed the JL HD 750/1 same problem. I'm stumped I tried everything I can think of to try. Any ideas. 

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OLDGUY
13 hours ago, jonyb said:

Sounds like the high volume is too high.   They could be clipping and backing themselves off.

These speakers as is are not as loud as the kickers. The kickers are 6 1/2 inch speakers the XM9's are 9 inch. I put the head unit on 3/4 volume and turned the gain up until the speakers shut off. They never distorted, just shut off. Just as an experiment I tried 1/2 volume then some gain, speakers shut off about the same volume. Again no distortion they just shut off. These speakers should be much louder then the Kickers, I'm sure they will be once I figure out the problem.

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David
18 minutes ago, OLDGUY said:

These speakers as is are not as loud as the kickers. The kickers are 6 1/2 inch speakers the XM9's are 9 inch. I put the head unit on 3/4 volume and turned the gain up until the speakers shut off. They never distorted, just shut off. Just as an experiment I tried 1/2 volume then some gain, speakers shut off about the same volume. Again no distortion they just shut off. These speakers should be much louder then the Kickers, I'm sure they will be once I figure out the problem.

^^^First, the XM9 is not a 9" speaker by any industry standard other than Exile's own standard. JL Audio, Selenium, and others have larger surface area speakers that are classified as an 8". And the surface area spec given by Exile is wrong by the industry standard as to how you calculate surface area. In any case, as an 8" speaker, by nature of the size, I agree the Exile XM9 should be louder than a Kicker 6.5" and normally it would be louder.

OLDGUY, I'm wondering if you have the series/parallel wiring configuration done correctly so that the HD750/1 is seeing a 4-ohm load when driving four 4-ohm speakers.

The two of you could have slightly different issues even though some of the symptoms are similar.  

As for 94, if all tweeters are blown, an 'open' could alter and re-bias the speaker's highpass filter components so that the amplifier saw a very peculiar impedance curve, and this could send the amplifier into the protection mode. The trouble shooting logic in the other thread still applies even though the collar connectivity may not be the problem in your case. Get the inexpensive 1/4" phone jack & plug parts so that you can conclusively verify each connection and test each speaker independent of the collar. In the end, it will save you time.     

    

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OLDGUY
2 hours ago, David said:

^^^First, the XM9 is not a 9" speaker by any industry standard other than Exile's own standard. JL Audio, Selenium, and others have larger surface area speakers that are classified as an 8". And the surface area spec given by Exile is wrong by the industry standard as to how you calculate surface area. In any case, as an 8" speaker, by nature of the size, I agree the Exile XM9 should be louder than a Kicker 6.5" and normally it would be louder.

OLDGUY, I'm wondering if you have the series/parallel wiring configuration done correctly so that the HD750/1 is seeing a 4-ohm load when driving four 4-ohm speakers.

The two of you could have slightly different issues even though some of the symptoms are similar.  

As for 94, if all tweeters are blown, an 'open' could alter and re-bias the speaker's highpass filter components so that the amplifier saw a very peculiar impedance curve, and this could send the amplifier into the protection mode. The trouble shooting logic in the other thread still applies even though the collar connectivity may not be the problem in your case. Get the inexpensive 1/4" phone jack & plug parts so that you can conclusively verify each connection and test each speaker independent of the collar. In the end, it will save you time.     

    

David On each side I have the positive wires spliced together then to the positive speaker wire. Same with the negative both wires spliced together then attached to the negative speaker wire. That is what the instruction sheet said to do.

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shawndoggy

@OLDGUY and then you have a right pair and a left pair and both are put right into the HD750/1's inputs together (pos with pos and neg with neg)?

If so, that's a one ohm load to the 750/1.  You need to rewire each right/left pair to be in series.  

bridgedtowers_zps0ab4b5e0.png

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OLDGUY
1 hour ago, shawndoggy said:

@OLDGUY and then you have a right pair and a left pair and both are put right into the HD750/1's inputs together (pos with pos and neg with neg)?

If so, that's a one ohm load to the 750/1.  You need to rewire each right/left pair to be in series.  

bridgedtowers_zps0ab4b5e0.png

I will try this tomorrow.xm30installsheet062514.pdf

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David

OLDGUY,

The two terminals on the HD750/1 are internally paralleled. So you can use the terminals as a left and right. You would then series the left two speakers and series the right two speakers. Anyway you can get this done in order to arrive at a 4-ohm load, versus a 1-ohm load, will be fine for a test. And this may be the root of your problem. Ultimately you want to series the speakers at the top of the tower in order to minimize the wire length and cut down on unwanted resistance.  

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OLDGUY

Thanks David and Shawndoggy for the information I will try it out tomorrow.

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OLDGUY

Bingo!!!!! Shawndoggy is the man. You can hear the stereo two blocks away. Little exaggerated, but it works great now. Thanks everyone for their help, this has been bugging me for quite a while now.

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shawndoggy

excellent!

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OLDGUY

Thanks again.

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wakebrdr94

Well one problem down, any tips for me now? ;)

Edited by wakebrdr94

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David
12 minutes ago, wakebrdr94 said:

Well problem down, any tips for me now? ;)

You have a different issue. Within the same post that diagnosed OLDGUY's likely problem, suggestions are made that should help you verify yours. I believe there is a good chance that when you resolve the speaker issue, the amplifier will self-correct. But nothing is certain until you make the tests.

Easy enough to verify a blown tweeter. Use one speaker only and cup the mouth of that horn. Open and close your hand. If you hear no difference the tweeter is gone. 

The inexpensive test parts, male and female 2-conductor 1/4" phone jacks, will eliminate or confirm any problem with the pod side of the collar connection.  

If all four tweeters are gone then you may have a resulting impedance curve the amplifier doesn't like. Or, the voice coils of the midbass drivers could be partially burnt and on their way out. When they heat up they tend to short to a much lower impedance. If you discover the tweeters are bad and feel the midbass drivers are still okay, then you can pull the drivers, pull the crossover, circumvent the crossover, and play the midbass driver (back in the pod) amplifier-direct. If the amplifier becomes stable, then you can be pretty sure the 'open' tweeter is the culprit. While you're inside the pod give the crossover board and elements a very good visual inspection.

Also, having just one new substitute speaker in your possession could be a time saving short cut.

After all you have tried and done thus far, sorry for the labor-intensive steps, but that is going to be the only way this gets correctly diagnosed. But once corrected you'll soon forget about the effort when you have tower tunes again.       

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wakebrdr94

sooo.....

 

I clipped the tweeters and tried them directly and they are not working.  not sure what would have fried the tweeters all around, maybe the previous amp spiked or something?  It was 125 degrees last trip I took in the boat.  

 

well, I have a new amp, so need to get these fixed I guess

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