Sputtering and then safe mode after storms

[timelinex]

I had this issue last year a few times and then it just went away. I took it to the dealer twice (once same day) and he couldn't reproduce it. It comes and goes randomly and can give problems for an entire day and the next day it works great. The issue usually starts right from the get go. When I give gas the engine just sputters. It will still accelerate but it's literally as if I'm giving gas sharply, killing gas completely, then giving gas sharply again (over and over again). Full throttle will usually produce this at the lower RPM's but then it will get going and stop  stuttering for the most part (at full throttle). if an engine fault is throw then we do an engine on/off cycle and it starts working again. (The only reason I'm driving through the sputter is because the dealer confirmed the codes are electric throttle issues and not engine issues that could be damaging)

There is one thing that I have realized could possibly tie this randomness together. I am fairly positive it has only happened the day after a strong rain storm, when everything inside is soaked (its sits outside). My dealer doesn't think this could have any effect because everything is waterproofed, but it's seriously the only link Ive found. I'm in AZ where it doesn't storm often and every time this has happened has been after strong strong rain.

The stuttering started immediately today. Then I ran it at 35mph or so (almost full throttle) for a bit. Aired out the engine bay for 15 minutes and it improved just enough to go a minute or so without the stuttering coming back randomly. So we started boarding. It would still occasionally stutter but as the day progressed it stuttered less and less. It got to the point that after 4 h ours or so there was no more stuttering. Then driving back it happened again and bam, engine fault and safe mode. Limped back to shore. It wouldn't let me go above 3mph even after a battery cycle. I think it takes a long battery off cycle to get it out of safe mode.

Anyways, here are the codes:

I think the errors show that incorrect voltage is being shown from the throttle. This totally meshes with the result of feeling like the throttle is just being jerked forward and back hard. The only idea the dealer had was to start replacing stuff. Last year we replaced my 'still good' costco dual batteries that were slightly off size with correctly sized branded ones, in case it's a voltage issue (but her warned me that could likely not be the issue, just a good cheaper place to start). Obviously that didn't work. Now he would start from the throttle connection ($$$), then moving onto other things, including eventually the CPU ($$$$). That's not very reassuring and will get real expensive real fast. It only happens a few times a year (no rain here in AZ!) so  I'm not sure I can justify the major expense. But when it does happen, what sucks is it basically kills the entire day.

 

Any help or ideas would be really appreciated!

Edited August 6, 2016 by timelinex

[Marksa1458]

I had a car do this to me once.  It turned out it was a bad wire.  You couldn't tell, the wires looked perfect, but one was bad and when it made solid contact the car ran like a dream, hit a bump or something and it would run terrible. Even blew out the mileage reading on the digital dash. Just a thought- took me forever to figure it out. 

[timelinex]

22 hours ago, Marksa1458 said:

I had a car do this to me once.  It turned out it was a bad wire.  You couldn't tell, the wires looked perfect, but one was bad and when it made solid contact the car ran like a dream, hit a bump or something and it would run terrible. Even blew out the mileage reading on the digital dash. Just a thought- took me forever to figure it out. 

Thats a good train of thought. That would mean starting with replacing the connector and line, which was their next recommendation. I forgot exactly the price but as I remember it , it was pretty pricey. I might end up doing it though if noone has any other advice.......

Edited August 7, 2016 by timelinex

[JasonK]

Try spraying, or pouring, water on the throttle lever while it's dry and running good. Hope that finds it.

If not, try replacing the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS)  or see if there's a way to test the signal from the throttle.

Edited August 8, 2016 by JasonK

[timelinex]

I THINK this is the TPS can anyone confirm it the the corerct one for a 2007 23lsv:

https://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=2337

So if all else fails I will try buying the replacement and see if that helps.

 

So I see what you are saying... I should soak the throttle while it is working to see if I can replicate the issue. Which part do I soak? I'm assuming the back of the throttle where the TPS sensor is? I always assumed it was one of the wires above the engine in the back getting soaked. But I guess it would make more sense if it was the TPS sensor on the back of the throttle itself.

Edited August 11, 2016 by timelinex

[Steve B.]

Just to verify, you have given it a tune-up?  I'm mostly wondering about the distributor cap. And even if the conductors look good, check with good lighting, that the cap housing is not cracked.

Steve B.

[timelinex]

I've been getting it serviced at Boulder Boats in Mesa, AZ. I don't know about a 'tune-up' but I have definitely asked them to look over everything in the past to make sure everything is good. How could something like a distributor cap lead to those codes?

Edited August 11, 2016 by timelinex

[Bake's Marine]

Start with basics.

Load test batteries, can battery terminals or cables be moved if you grab the cable? If yes, they are too loose and need to be tightened, start at the battery then check battery switch, ACR, starter post, ground post on motor, any main or larger size cable connection needs to be clean and tight.

If they are dirty or loose it will change the reference voltage (constant) for all the sensors giving you weird ghost codes that are hard to duplicate.

If all checks OK, monitor voltage on the dash. If you turn a bunch of accessories on does voltage fall far off? If yes, it is time to replace the batteries.

Still have the issue, I would replace the PPS (Pedal position sensor) associated with the fault. We see more issues with the engine side PPS (you have two, one on the control and one on the motor) more than the throttle side. to be honest. 

Hope that helps!

-Paul 

On 8/11/2016 at 0:56 PM, timelinex said:

I've been getting it serviced at Boulder Boats in Mesa, AZ. I don't know about a 'tune-up' but I have definitely asked them to look over everything in the past to make sure everything is good. How could something like a distributor cap lead to those codes?

A bad tune will not throw pedal position faults. 

[JeffK]

If I recall correctly, the distributor or ignition module on some of those was getting soaked and causing this issue.  I think there was a deflector plate that was made to keep water from dripping on those items.  It would come in through the hatches and around the pizza warmer (engine tray) and soak things.  Next time it happens, pull your distributor cap and let it dry out.  You would probably see evidence of corrosion in there if it is getting wet.

[timelinex]

OK guys. I have replaced the throttle side PPS a few weeks ago and it hasn't solved the problem. I did realize something though. a Choppy ride directly relates to how bad the stuttering it. In the last 2 times out, every single time the lake went smooth the issue almost went away. It would still stutter jsut a little here and there, but for the most part it was fine. As soon as it gets a little choppy because of wind or boats, the stutter would come back. During the highest traffic time when it was super choppy out on the water, it was almsot un drivable and would go into safe mode every few minutes until I did a power cycle to clear the code.

Does this help any in trying to diagnose?

I am most likely going to bring it by to my dealer this week but I REALLY don't want to. It's a 2-3 hour round trip drive and then they will put it in their smooth water tank and be unable to reproduce the issue. It's frustrating.

[Rednucleus]

Maybe get it running on a fake a lake and start jiggling everything electrical

[timelinex]

Good idea. So simple I can't believe I didn't think of that. I tried tightening everything and such but didn't think of jiggling everything I could.

The only thing I don't know about is whether it would have to be under load for this issue to be produced. I'm not sure if I just put it at 2k RPm while in nuetral, if this issue happens or not.

We will see I guess. Thanks for the idea.

Edited September 20, 2016 by timelinex

[Rednucleus]

Start with all the plugs, move on to the wiring harnesses if no luck. As bad as you are describing, doubt it needs to be under load. Can always do it on the lake as well.

[timelinex]

31 minutes ago, Rednucleus said:

Start with all the plugs, move on to the wiring harnesses if no luck. As bad as you are describing, doubt it needs to be under load. Can always do it on the lake as well.

By plugs you mean spark plugs right? 

which wiring harness are you talking about. The one below the back seat or the one at the dashboard?

[Rednucleus]

No not spark plugs; meant any and all connections under dash, on motor, on ecu where wires or harnesses plug in to something. Any harnesses - any bundles of wires could have a potential short or something loose that could show up if you start wiggling them.

[kerpluxal]

On 8/15/2016 at 2:31 PM, Bake's Marine said:

Start with basics.

Load test batteries, can battery terminals or cables be moved if you grab the cable? If yes, they are too loose and need to be tightened, start at the battery then check battery switch, ACR, starter post, ground post on motor, any main or larger size cable connection needs to be clean and tight.

If they are dirty or loose it will change the reference voltage (constant) for all the sensors giving you weird ghost codes that are hard to duplicate.

If all checks OK, monitor voltage on the dash. If you turn a bunch of accessories on does voltage fall far off? If yes, it is time to replace the batteries.

Still have the issue, I would replace the PPS (Pedal position sensor) associated with the fault. We see more issues with the engine side PPS (you have two, one on the control and one on the motor) more than the throttle side. to be honest. 

Hope that helps!

-Paul 

A bad tune will not throw pedal position faults. 

 

4 hours ago, Rednucleus said:

Start with all the plugs, move on to the wiring harnesses if no luck. As bad as you are describing, doubt it needs to be under load. Can always do it on the lake as well.

I am having somewhat the same issue after a new engine was installed (does not sputter just goes straight into limp mode)... Mine mainly happens when under load (ballasted boat)... Dealer did replace controller at helm and the wiring harness. The boat did not go into limp mode every 5 minutes afterwards, however it still does on occasions. :(...  I did notice at times that my voltage would drop on display.. but it did not set the limp mode when it dropped... I have also noticed that my tower speakers at times will sound muffled and after a reset they sound fine... I am almost convince of a bad ground somewhere and that is this weekends project (clean all grounds and reassemble with dielectric grease). My malview screen is also not showing what code was thrown (my fault code screen is blank) I will update if mine is resolved... also following to see if you have this resolved and how you did it.... I am also wondering if my alternator is on occasions intermingling dropping charge.... This is frustrating

Edited September 20, 2016 by kerpluxal

[timelinex]

It's been on and off for the last few times out. It would happen every time but it would just get better than worse. When it gets worse I just resort to messing around on the wakeboard and doing drills and switch riding. Then last time we were out it got so bad  that I couldn't even mess around on a wakeboard because it would just stutter so bad for a minute or two and then go into limp mode until power cycling.

I brought it into the dealer, the put it into their tank and it runs like a dream. No problems and they absolutely cannot reproduce it. DANG IT!

I have no idea what to do! It's getting so ridiculous. They said they can do a lake test, but its gonna be $300 and I am doubtful it will show them anything. The last 3 times I have brought it to the dealer for this it would magically start working for a bit even after getting it back.

[Ougymnast]

timelinex, were you able to find a solution to this?  I'm going through the same issue with mine.  thanks,