$79,995 - The Official 2017 21VLX Thread

[bamaboy]

From an outsider perspective (non Malibu owner) I don't think this cheapens the brand in any way. Joe Blow towboat shopper isn't going to walk by this thing and be like "the wakesetters have gone to crap Lois!  Let's go to the Mastercraft dealer where we can get a real boat!" One 21 foot stripped down wakesetter isn't going to somehow cheapen the whole wakesetter line.  As long as they are still rolling out blinged out 25 LSVs (Hulk style) for 100K plus no chance of that happening.  Now, if they start to "Axisify" (trademarked already) wakesetters across the board then sure that can happen.  But they aren't going to do that.  I promise you.

Three things it will do

 

1)Beat the hell out of 21 VLX resale value.  Afun is lucky he got out when he did.  

2)Strip sales away from the 22 VLX.

3)Get people INTO a Malibu.  Isn't that the goal right?  Get them into your brand and hope they upgrade at some point.  

 

Overall, I think it is a great idea and will be interesting to see how it plays out.  Now, instead of Axis competing with MB, Mastercraft, etc....you can get into a "wakesetter" for the same (or a tad higher) price.  

[85 Barefoot]

13 hours ago, EchelonMike said:

I think you're completely wrong.  This is called innovation and having a broad catalog that appeals to a market as wide as possible.  Malibu now has a 21 VLX and a 22 VLX.  They have a 23 LSV and a 25 LSV.   If you buy a new boat worrying and thinking about your boat's value, why the hell are you buying a new boat?  

The thing that I like about this new VLX - at least in the videos and on paper - is that it is not a stripper.  This is not a gawd awful NXT.  Talk about a brand nightmare.  The VLX looks like it belongs in the same line-up as other boats that say MALIBU down the side.  It has the same awesome tower, high end wedge, the latest surf-gate and helm station controls.  The same excellent drivetrain.  Same interior materials.  Same warrantee.   Same trailer.  Comparing MSRP to MSRP, this new boat appears to deliver a good value.  The price is right in-line with the line-up.  A 23 LSV with reasonable options and boat show pricing is typically low to mid 80s.  This is a few feet smaller, and lists at $80.

        -- Mike

 

 

 

12 hours ago, EchelonMike said:

It might have been couple of years ago...

My point was that I found it interesting in this thread that some were commenting this boat is bad for the brand.  No way someone doesn't buy a Malibu because they introduced an $80K point of entry.

 

 

Mike, as SD pointed out, your numbers are way, way off.  Why the hell would buyers worry and think about their boat's value?  Well, a few reasons, 1) it's a big investment for most people, 2) brand and model stability will always be a critical part of resale value, which is a critical component of new boat pricing, and 3) If you owned a 2016 22 VLX, you'd feel the same way I do.  

You have a ten year old boat, which is fine and good for you.  My complaints about this, I don't necessarily expect you to understand.  If and when you do get a new boat, and Malibu does this to you with your model, then you'll understand.

And I think you're incorrect that "no way someone doesn't buy a Malibu...".  In fact, there will be a LOT of buyers looking at 23's, MXZs, etc. who will be thinking in the back of their head what if Malibu does what it did to the VLX and undercuts my anticipated value?  Many (most?) won't consider that, of course, but MANY will.  And they'll go to another brand or buy used.  This was incredibly short-sighted in my personal opinion.

[oldjeep]

Counterpoint - It may just make the older 21 vlx on the market worth more money, like the 2016 VTX is doing for the 2015 and older models

[85 Barefoot]

2 minutes ago, bamaboy said:

From an outsider perspective (non Malibu owner) I don't think this cheapens the brand in any way. Joe Blow towboat shopper isn't going to walk by this thing and be like "the wakesetters have gone to crap Lois!  Let's go to the Mastercraft dealer where we can get a real boat!" One 21 foot stripped down wakesetter isn't going to somehow cheapen the whole wakesetter line.  As long as they are still rolling out blinged out 25 LSVs (Hulk style) for 100K plus no chance of that happening.  Now, if they start to "Axisify" (trademarked already) wakesetters across the board then sure that can happen.  But they aren't going to do that.  I promise you.

Three things it will do

 

1)Beat the hell out of 21 VLX resale value.  Afun is lucky he got out when he did.  

2)Strip sales away from the 22 VLX.

3)Get people INTO a Malibu.  Isn't that the goal right?  Get them into your brand and hope they upgrade at some point.  

 

Overall, I think it is a great idea and will be interesting to see how it plays out.  Now, instead of Axis competing with MB, Mastercraft, etc....you can get into a "wakesetter" for the same (or a tad higher) price.  

The goal is to make as much money as possible.  This lower margin offering will cannibalize the sales of higher priced offerings to the detriment of the company, dealers, and current owners, in my opinion.  When current owners take it on the chin because the label on their boat doesn't mean what it used to, both in quality and price, trust me, damage will be done.

[Sixer]

16 hours ago, 85 Barefoot said:

Absolutely...and there will be plenty of 23 LSV shoppers this spring  thinking to themselves, "Jeez, if they did that to the 21 VLX, when are they going to do that to a 23 or MXZ and cut my boat's value by 25%.  I better stick to MC and CC."  

Malibu may have had no plans to do this to any other model, but now they've opened Pandora's box in shopper's minds.  The partition between Axis and Malibu, even with Axises getting so much nicer, still left adequate brand separation.  I know I've said it like 5 times today but this will affect a substantial number of buyers for a long time.  Again, that does not mean I don't think they'll sell a bunch, but it will come at too great of an image cost long term in my opinion.  

I know Supra/Moomba is coming out with a boat that will also fit the "in-between" like the 21 VLX is doing, but I'm pretty sure it's going to have the Moomba tag on it, making it a high-end Moomba instead of a low-end Supra.  Supposed to be released in January.  Not saying they are in the same ballpark as the big 3, but I wouldn't be surprised if MC/CC has something in the works as well.  

[gobble]

You guys are overthinking this. A 2013 VLX with a $100k+ sticker sold for $80k just a few years ago. Hell, I can buy a brand new 2015 VLX for $79k today. We're still at $80k for a more stripped down boat with some extra features. The only thing that's changed is you can now still buy that smaller sized VLX at a similar price instead of the fattened up, heavier 22VLX at a higher price.

[85 Barefoot]

6 hours ago, oldjeep said:

Counterpoint - It may just make the older 21 vlx on the market worth more money, like the 2016 VTX is doing for the 2015 and older models

1) Almost every 21 VLX in the wild is or is about to be out of warranty.  They have no Viper II.  They don't have the latest PW or surfgate.  No one would prefer a used VLX over this new offering.

2) I've had both a 2013 and 2016 VTX.  If someone is preferring a 2013 over 2016 (you're referring exclusively to the slalom wake as that is the only area that it is even debatable that the boat is not as good as the old iteration), they're haven't yet set up the boat up for skiing yet or skiing is their only interest.  True, with a wake prop like they come from the factory with the propwash is more than before, but those are 15" props.

6 hours ago, gobble said:

You guys are overthinking this. A 2013 VLX with a $100k+ sticker sold for $80k just a few years ago. Hell, I can buy a brand new 2015 VLX for $79k today. We're still at $80k for a more stripped down boat with some extra features. The only thing that's changed is you can now still buy that smaller sized VLX at a similar price instead of the fattened up, heavier 22VLX at a higher price.

Word of advice, DON'T buy that boat now!  This new 21 will knock 20% off that price.  Watch.  

Respectfully, I'm not overthinking this at all.  This isn't a luxury car maker that can easily absorb some misses.  Malibu makes a couple thousand units.  Just the loss of 100 buyers or 100 buyers who buy a 21 over a 22 has a huge impact.

Edited August 10, 2016 by 85 Barefoot

[gobble]

It's not that much cheaper than the 22VLX. You can buy a new 2016 22VLX with the features of this boat for $90k all day long, probably less. That's not much more expensive. It's not like they're offering this boat for $50k.

[85 Barefoot]

6 minutes ago, Sixer said:

I know Supra/Moomba is coming out with a boat that will also fit the "in-between" like the 21 VLX is doing, but I'm pretty sure it's going to have the Moomba tag on it, making it a high-end Moomba instead of a low-end Supra.  Supposed to be released in January.  Not saying they are in the same ballpark as the big 3, but I wouldn't be surprised if MC/CC has something in the works as well.  

No way Correct Craft would ever produce a "value edition" ski nautique or G.  Why?  They're the most sacrosanct icons they have.  The VLX was Malibu's and it should not have been messed with.  As I've said before, I don't have a problem with the concept, but you don't call it a Wakesetter VLX!

[oldjeep]

6 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

1) Almost every 21 VLX in the wild is or is about to be out of warranty.  They have no Viper II.  They don't have the latest PW or surfgate.  No one would prefer a used VLX over this new offering.

2) I've had both a 2013 and 2016 VTX.  If some is preferring a 2013 over 2016 (you're referring to the slalom wake as that is the only area that it is even debatable that the boat is not as good as the old iteration) , they're misinformed or haven't yet set up the boat up for skiing.  

More the - too tall to fit in a normal garage any more, the insane price jump that the 2016 took over the 2015 and the fact that almost every VTX locally has a ski rack on it and I've never seen anyone around here surf one.  Wrong or right the new VTX is viewed by many as a surf boat, the 2015 and older are viewed as ski boats.  But I'm not complaining - I could sell my boat pretty easily now for what I paid for it 3 years ago.

Edited August 10, 2016 by oldjeep

[85 Barefoot]

5 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

More the - too tall to fit in a normal garage any more, the insane price jump that the 2016 took over the 2015 and the fact that almost every VTX locally has a ski rack on it and I've never seen anyone around here surf one.  Wrong or right the new VTX is viewed by many as a surf boat, the 2015 and older are viewed as ski boats.  But I'm not complaining - I could sell my boat pretty easily now for what I paid for it 3 years ago.

No need to get off topic, but who considers the VTX a ski boat?  2007-2015 or 2016, they're crossovers.  And they've changed with the times to be better wake boats.  The height issue is across the board due to different trailers.  In any event, as to your last sentence, see how you're making my point?  A redesign with price increase HELPED your boat value.  Quite the opposite here.

[oldjeep]

Just now, 85 Barefoot said:

No need to get off topic, but who considers the VTX a ski boat?  2007-2015 or 2016, they're crossovers.  And they've changed with the times to be better wake boats.  The height issue is across the board due to different trailers.  In any event, as to your last sentence, see how you're making my point?  A redesign with price increase HELPED your boat value.  Quite the opposite here.

Most of the folks who own them around here including me consider them ski boats - a ski boat that you can use on the bigger lakes with more than 2 people in it.  I mean jeeze the 2008 with the same hull they used until 2015 VTX was a tournament approved boat.  But point being that sometimes an undesirable (to some) redesign/reuse of a boat/name will make the previous boats more desirable.

 

And FWIW - it appears the 2016 VTX has some sort of weird AWSA tow boat approval this year - so they consider it a ski boat too

http://www.usawaterski.org/default.asp?Display=2304

"In addition, the Malibu Wakesetter VTX has been certified as a USA Water Ski Approved Ski Boat for recreational use only."

[Chrisjjbrown]

12 hours ago, hethj7 said:

I think your IXFE scenario of using the VTX line as the value moniker is exactly why we are confused over using VLX as the name for this boat.   The VLX has never been the value model in the Malibu lineup and for years it was the flagship model.    At least for now, you can't option up a 21VLX like you can the 22VLX and obviously the pricing reflects that.   Thus, the confusion as they both share the VLX name.  That being said, I really like what I see in the 21VLX, regardless of what they call it.     

Ok, So in my scenario call it something different like the new 20 VCO and 22 VCO,   Then you keep your model lines in tack so you all can sleep at night.

[IXFE]

@85 Barefoot are you concerned this new 21 VLX will have a negative effect on the '16 VTX value?

[85 Barefoot]

jeep:

2008 AWSA approved list:

http://www.usawaterski.org/speedcontrol/images/2008-Approved-Towboats.pdf

Absent, VTX.  No subsequent years, either.

However, it is on this list, and I recall its certification to pull Class "C" tournaments, not "R".

https://www.usawaterski.org/pages/divisions/3event/AWSAApprovedTowboatHistory.pdf

Every boat can get certified to do something in 3 event.  It's a function of paying USAWS.  

In any event, you're right, a redesign and price increase certainly makes older models more attractive.  That does NOT work in reverse.

1 minute ago, IXFE said:

@85 Barefoot are you concerned this new 21 VLX will have a negative effect on the '16 VTX value?

Absolutely.  

Edited August 10, 2016 by 85 Barefoot

[Fman]

7 hours ago, SammamishMalibu said:

Talked to the dealer today about the 21 VLX price. Learned that the $80K for the 21 VLX doesn't include their $7600 "freight & prep" charge. Meanwhile the other boats like a 20 VTX they have been quoting already has that charge built in. They'll get their pounds of flesh somehow. Not sure if that's just this dealer or not. 

This does not surprise me.  I would like to know is every dealer required to sell it for $80k?  Or can they add in extra fees like above if they want or take away options.  I suspect what options are included will also be inconsistent across the boards, depending on the dealer.  Malibu does not even list tower speakers for "featured items" on there website, just a sub and 6 speakers for the stereo.  You would think they would have put a pair of tower speakers being included as well?  And they list snap out carpet in the featured items list, not gator grip flooring.

This is going to be a great popcorn eating thread to keep an eye on :-)

[River Monsters]

While I think Nautique overstates the case for the GS20, at least they are going after the ski market.  Malibu seems to have no interest.  Too bad really.  

That is spot where you could go less electronics and older hull for a VTX Ride - Ski Edition.  Special order only if you don't think it will sell, but I bet it would.

[85 Barefoot]

I don't think a 4500# boat with no center pylon is going after the ski market just because marketing says so.

[River Monsters]

Just now, 85 Barefoot said:

I don't think a 4500# boat with no center pylon is going after the ski market just because marketing says so.

I totally disagree.  It only has to get close to the 200 and VTX diamond to take the crossover crown.  Malibu has decided the 20' boat needs to surf only. 

[DarkSide]

I really think it is a great move for Malibu,  I do not see it lessening the brand or costing sales.  Yes you may lose a 22VLX sale  in favor of the less expensive (not cheaper) 21VLX.  However you are also going to get Axis buyers stretching into this.   

It too me is a market share grab, pure and simple.  If you have "John & Jane" looking at boats.  This gives them admission into the premium brand, for roughly the same price as the value brands.  

Again I think only mistake is using VLX badge. 

[Jason63]

On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 3:29 PM, NWBU said:

There's been a lot of discussion on this boat already in the 2017 thread but my local dealer is advertising the new 21 VLX for $79,995 now, so hopefully the rest of the dealers will follow along. Just saw this post on their FB page with the launch video Malibu just put out.

Timing on this release isn't great since Nautique just made a splash with their 20' launch at GM yesterday, but better late than never I guess.

https://www.facebook.com/activewatersports.boatsales/?fref=ts

 

I can tell you the 20VTX 2013 to 2015 is a great all around boat. Will ski the course if you want plus wake board and will surf great too and it will fit in most standard garages. The 2016 Hull changed and have not read where it skis better. Used ones can be hard to find, I had to go to Wisconsin and tow back to Texas to get the one I wanted. Best of luck in your search

[Fman]

The lsv and mxz line could also take a hit because of this price point wakesetter. Spending $100k+ or $80k for a smaller boat might have people start rethinking there buying needs and what they can live with.  It will be very interesting how the market plays out over the next couple years with both used and new.

[bamaboy]

It is interesting to see how many different boat makers are doing this just in different ways.

 

1)MC-they created the XT series.  Which, from what I am told by a reliable source, is going to be the new tweener series in between NXT and X series.  The X-10 is going to become the XT21 and the X-30 became the XT23.

2)Supra/Moomba-developing a higher price point boat but will retain the moomba badge

3)Malibu-21 VLX will retain the wakesetter badge.  

 

I think these guys sense that the continued inflation of boat prices is going to create a vacuum that they need to fill.

[IXFE]

I don't think the 21 VLX is a substitute for a 22 VLX.  If you look at them side by side, there's no mistaking the difference.  

I do agree that "VLX" probably wasn't a good name for it because it will drive some confusion.  But nobody is going to buy a 21 thinking's is a substitute for the 22.  They are way way way different boats.  

[DarkSide]

I also don't think the guy looking at a 25LSV/24MXZ is going to be influenced by the 80k VLX.