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Brian Ferrell

Considering an upgrade

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Brian Ferrell

Every year about this time I think about moving up to a newer model.  Currently with an 08 23lsv that has been fantastic.  Love the look/size of the 24 mxz or the 247 lsv.  My question is, with surfgate is there less of a need for ballast?  Specifically extra ballast up front?  I currently run an 1100lb sack in rear, center and front mls full + 200lb lead up there.  

Its hard to quantify if the upgrade is worth it in dollars so curious if anyone else has been in a similar situation? 

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NWBU

You're generally going to need to run more ballast with surfgate boats to sink the boat lower but the boat will run mostly level. A little list still seems to help get the best wave though, and you'll need some bow weight unless you don't sack out the rear lockers. If you fill the rear lockers past 500-600 lbs, most guys are running either lead or a bow sac up front.

I get to surf a 2016 LSV quite a bit this summer so I have the same boat envy going on right now as you.

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Brian Ferrell
7 minutes ago, NWBU said:

You're generally going to need to run more ballast with surfgate boats to sink the boat lower but the boat will run mostly level. A little list still seems to help get the best wave though, and you'll need some bow weight unless you don't sack out the rear lockers. If you fill the rear lockers past 500-600 lbs, most guys are running either lead or a bow sac up front.

I get to surf a 2016 LSV quite a bit this summer so I have the same boat envy going on right now as you.

Envy is definitely happening now.  I have not experienced surfgate yet, is it a noticeably better wave?  Understand the ability to switch on the fly is a big difference as well. 

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NWBU
9 minutes ago, Brian Ferrell said:

Envy is definitely happening now.  I have not experienced surfgate yet, is it a noticeably better wave?  Understand the ability to switch on the fly is a big difference as well. 

The surfgate wave I'm used to is better since that boat is more dialed in by @IXFE than my 2008 LSV right now but the listed vs. surfgate argument seems get passionate whenever it comes up. I'm also a beginner surfer so I'm not great on rating waves just yet. However, one of the regulars on the 2016 typically rides on listed boats and he's pretty happy with SG wave when it's listed slightly.

It really comes down to the ability to switch sides quickly, which is really, really nice if you have goofy and regular riders.

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DarkSide

You will definitely want more ballast.  Keep in mind with surf gate you need to get both halves deeper into the water.  The 24 MXZ is 24' 5" the 25LSV is 25' even.  It takes a LOT of weight to push that much Malibu into the water!  

On my MXZ I run 1350 in each corner, and 800 in the bow on top of MLS.  Wave is very good,  but if you go to a big boat be prepared to add weight.

You can get a very nice, very surfable wave with less weight, but more weight is better in the larger boats.

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jcon44

i was having a similar dilemma over the last few seasons but this spring added GSA or wakemakers wave control and its hard to justify a newer boat now. The wave is great and switching sides is effortless. Do I still want a newer boat? sure I will always want bigger and better but its hard to justify now that my 07 surfs with the same ease. Good Luck,

I also just had a kid a few months ago so time on the boat is down this summer and a new boat is not even an option now. At least for a few years anyway. :)

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Suggy
58 minutes ago, DarkSide said:

You will definitely want more ballast.  Keep in mind with surf gate you need to get both halves deeper into the water.  The 24 MXZ is 24' 5" the 25LSV is 25' even.  It takes a LOT of weight to push that much Malibu into the water!  

On my MXZ I run 1350 in each corner, and 800 in the bow on top of MLS.  Wave is very good,  but if you go to a big boat be prepared to add weight.

You can get a very nice, very surfable wave with less weight, but more weight is better in the larger boats.

+1  People always talk on here on how you need more weight or more typically more bow weight.  All of these configurations people give are for the BEST wave possible, maximizing the boat.  If you're like me and don't like having extra sacs, you can still get a great wave without adding more bow weight.  On my VLX, we have 750's in the back and we just don't fill them up all the way to surf or run the wedge closer to lift if we do fill them.  Just keep in mind that to get a great, surfable wave you don't HAVE to add more.  Adding more just maximizes the boats ability and makes the wake better.  Also keep in mind that these are wave fanatics, and can tell minor differences.  To just an average surfer, they won't be able to tell the difference in the waves (as much).  Just my .02

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shawndoggy
19 minutes ago, Suggy said:

+1  People always talk on here on how you need more weight or more typically more bow weight.  All of these configurations people give are for the BEST wave possible, maximizing the boat.  If you're like me and don't like having extra sacs, you can still get a great wave without adding more bow weight.  On my VLX, we have 750's in the back and we just don't fill them up all the way to surf or run the wedge closer to lift if we do fill them.  Just keep in mind that to get a great, surfable wave you don't HAVE to add more.  Adding more just maximizes the boats ability and makes the wake better.  Also keep in mind that these are wave fanatics, and can tell minor differences.  To just an average surfer, they won't be able to tell the difference in the waves (as much).  Just my .02

Slightly apples to oranges, but I've found with our T22 that I actually like it better NOT maxed.  When maxed out (900s in the rear lockers, triangle sack in the bow filled drum tight) the wave is tall and steep.  When I dump some weight in the back it gets a lot longer.  I lose some height, but gain length, which is more fun for me.

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95echelon

There is some wierd sweet spot i found when I first started and didnt put the bow sack in. I feel i can literally get 90% of the wave with half the weight by doing what many of you prescribe. Just fill the rear tanks about half (my rears are 1100 each) fill the center, wedge down and sometimes eve no mls or just MLS up front. I think that with so much weight in the back it changes the angle of attack. There are some nice parts about that lightly weighted wave too. It curls much farther back on my boat. Maybe if i ever charge my gopro I can tape it to the pylon and get scientific.

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minnmarker
1 hour ago, shawndoggy said:

I'd say that as a rough rule, surfgate boats require MORE bow weight not less, especially if you load both rear lockers heavy.  Might not be true for M235, probably less true for 25LSV, but definitely is the rule for 23LSV and shorter boats.

With my 21 foot with surf gates and 1000 in each rear locker and wedge down, it needs 600 in the ski locker and 400+ worth of ballast and people in the bow to keep a nice long wave with good push.  Any more than 500 in the bow and I have to start being VERY careful about dipping it.

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95echelon
Just now, minnmarker said:

With my 21 foot with surf gates and 1000 in each rear locker and wedge down, it needs 600 in the ski locker and 400+ worth of ballast and people in the bow to keep a nice long wave with good push.  Any more than 500 in the bow and I have to start being VERY careful about dipping it.

I have the same hull and routinely put 1350 up front (350 MLS plus a full fly high 1000lb triangle).  Not picking nits here, just saying it's harder than you might think to sink the boat. Once I taught my wife to pause before turning it was gravy.

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teamerickson

You guys are the perfect TARGET for an upgrade! More freeboard, less chance of dipping. :)

Edited by teamerickson

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minnmarker
Just now, 95echelon said:

I have the same hull and routinely put 1350 up front (350 MLS plus a full fly high 1000lb triangle).  Not picking nits here, just saying it's harder than you might think to sink the boat. Once I taught my wife to pause before turning it was gravy.

If you count the ski locker then we have about 1100 - but I would never dare put another 300 pounds in the bow.  We turn after letting the first 2 wake waves go by, like you, but there are other boats and wake waves out there.  Not worried about sinking, but getting the whole bow and floor soaked is not worth it IMHO.

3 minutes ago, teamerickson said:

You guys are the perfect TARGET for an upgrade! More freeboard, less chance up dipping. :)

Good point - but I really like my ski wake and don't think any of the newer boats are as good a crossover boat as the 21 foot diamond hull.  And keeping the extra $50 grand in my pocket is a benefit too!

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95echelon
Just now, minnmarker said:

If you count the ski locker then we have about 1100 - but I would never dare put another 300 pounds in the bow.  We turn after letting the first 2 wake waves go by, like you, but there are other boats and wake waves out there.  Not worried about sinking, but getting the whole bow and floor soaked is not worth it IMHO.

Ok this is a huge aside, but why are folks so afraid of getting their boats wet?

Trust me though your boat can handle the bow weight. My standard is: 1350 bow, 500 in the center, and 2200 in the back plus 6 people. Even when you dunk the front that boat isn't going down. We have cabin cruisers on my lake and even at slow speeds the 30 footers don't put up wakes that are surf sized. The G23's in the cove across from me though...

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minnmarker
11 minutes ago, 95echelon said:

Ok this is a huge aside, but why are folks so afraid of getting their boats wet?

Because we're pussies? :thumbup:

Seriously, if we soak it it will not dry under the lift - and wet vaccing it and pulling the seats off and mooring it in the sun is too much work for lazy me.  A "10% better" wake just not worth it.

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DarkSide

I sometimes dip the bow on purpose.   When it's 110 and the people in the bow ask to get wet,  I usually abblige.  Sending a few gallons over the bow isn't going to hurt anything.   Here it drises so fast no worries. 

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Ndawg12

My buddy had an 05vlx with the triangle bow sack.  It got dicey with it just half full but he only had 750's in the rear.  I'd like to see how the whole boat rides with all that weight @95echelon

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95echelon
Just now, Ndawg12 said:

My buddy had an 05vlx with the triangle bow sack.  It got dicey with it just half full but he only had 750's in the rear.  I'd like to see how the whole boat rides with all that weight @95echelon

I dont even have a picture of full ninja. Will report back after the weekend. If you don't like wet boats don't look at this (left if moored for a day to dry then put it in the lift):

2016-06-26%2016.25.29.jpg?dl=0

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Ndawg12

Thanks for the nightmare tonight, atleast throw a towel over the dash!!!

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Cmb396

We dipped my boat with a 1k bow sac full a couple weeks ago, it looked like a water fall hitting the floor!! Lol, I just took the wake wrong and dipped it BAD!! Guess what? I didn't sink, and it dried out!

This was with 6 people, full 750s in the rear, a 350 in the locker with full MLS.

 

As for the original question, this is my first Malibu, and I wanted a 23. I opted for finding a used SG boat after all that I had read on here. The price diff wasn't all that huge comparing 2010-2013 models. I ended up with a 13' with L96, and am hooked!! We've already put more hours on this boat than we did our last I/O in the past 3 years!! I have never surfed a non SG Bu, but have surfed listed other boats, Supra and MC, and the SG is nice, and well worth the extra $$ imo!

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jcon44
2 hours ago, 95echelon said:

Ok this is a huge aside, but why are folks so afraid of getting their boats wet?

 

I don't even like getting the outside of my boat wet, when the inside gets wet a part of me dies a little. :biggrin:

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Brian Ferrell
2 hours ago, Cmb396 said:

We dipped my boat with a 1k bow sac full a couple weeks ago, it looked like a water fall hitting the floor!! Lol, I just took the wake wrong and dipped it BAD!! Guess what? I didn't sink, and it dried out!

This was with 6 people, full 750s in the rear, a 350 in the locker with full MLS.

 

As for the original question, this is my first Malibu, and I wanted a 23. I opted for finding a used SG boat after all that I had read on here. The price diff wasn't all that huge comparing 2010-2013 models. I ended up with a 13' with L96, and am hooked!! We've already put more hours on this boat than we did our last I/O in the past 3 years!! I have never surfed a non SG Bu, but have surfed listed other boats, Supra and MC, and the SG is nice, and well worth the extra $$ imo!

Im just going to use this as my justification for a newer boat. :)

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95echelon
On 8/4/2016 at 3:02 PM, Ndawg12 said:

My buddy had an 05vlx with the triangle bow sack.  It got dicey with it just half full but he only had 750's in the rear.  I'd like to see how the whole boat rides with all that weight @95echelon

Since we pulled this thread way off base: Ask and you shall receive.

Slammed%20VLX-0468_zps3galspf9.jpg

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