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mikeo

Are you running an Acme 2773 ?

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mikeo

I read the review of the Acme 2773 by @ibelonginprison but my boat is a bit newer, so I wanted to solicit some feedback from others that may be running an Acme 2773 and see what you have to say.

I've got a 2015 23 LSV that came with the Acme 1235; I run at 2000' or lower elevation, and have up to 3000 lbs of ballast over the stock MLS (custom wakemakers "exact fit" 827 lbs in the lockers and a bow triangle). I have the "base" 350 Monsoon engine and the last few trips out I've had the throttle all the way down and can't get past 10.2 MPH. The boat is used for surfing (80%), wakeboarding (15%), and towing the kids "EZ Ski trainer" (5%), we don't do any skiing behind this boat and don't need to make any long-distance high-speed runs. I put an Acme 2315 on and didn't have much change in performance, so I called Acme and the recommendation was for a 2773. I know a bunch of you might suggest that I should have a larger engine, but that's not an easy option so it's out. For the record, the 2315 has a great hole-shot but I can't get it up to the 10.8 - 11.2 I'd like to be surfing at.

I'd like to hear from others that are running a 2773 and hear what their feedback is too. What does the crew have to say about the 2773?

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shawndoggy

First off, I don't see why a higher pitched prop (2773) is going to push more weight than the lower pitched prop (2315)?  I think you'd need to go to one of the 11" or 10.5" pitched offerings to get significantly better performance than the 2315.

Dumb Q, but have you tried just dumping weight from the rear till you can hit your desired speed?  IMHO much of the "I push XXXX lbs of ballast" is a dong measuring contest and practically speaking in the mythical real world, you can get a very surfable wave with less than bleeding edge weight.

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mikeo

@shawndoggy I agree with you, and yes I've dumped weight in the back with no major loss in wake. Maybe I don't understand props very well, but I'm trying to get up a few more MPH (or .10s MPH) before I'm at 100% on the throttle; I would prefer to run at 80% of the available throttle so I've got a just a little bit more in case I need it. The hole shot is there with the 2315, it's got more "pull" than the 1235 and it I've noticed that it needs a more gentle start so you don't pull someone's arms out. I'm guessing here, but I think that's why Acme recommended the 2773. My understanding is that the diameter and cup really control the hole shot and the pitch is for top end speed. If so, then then the 15" diameter x .105 cup would still provide the hole shot while the 13" pitch would provide more top end. I was looking at a 2249 based on that logic, but Acme said I would be disappointed in the performance without offering a reason. That's why I'm asking the crew for their opinion...

In a perfect world I could get a 2773 and 2249 to test side by side with my 2315 and then pick what I liked best at the end of the day.

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shadetreefab

If you ever come to berryessa we can trade props for a little while

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shawndoggy

If you are "getting stuck" and hitting a "speed wall" where the boat won't go faster even though the throttle is buried, higher pitch is just going to make it worse.  It's like not having enough power to climb a hill on your road bike and trying to fix it by shifting into the big ring.

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teamerickson

Surprised the lift feature isn't taking care of this?

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mikeo
Just now, shawndoggy said:

If you are "getting stuck" and hitting a "speed wall" where the boat won't go faster even though the throttle is buried, higher pitch is just going to make it worse.  It's like not having enough power to climb a hill on your road bike and trying to fix it by shifting into the big ring.

That might be the analogy I needed since I understand the drivetrain of my bike better than the one in my boat.

Now for a related question: if RPM is the same (assuming the engine can turn the gears/driveshaft) wouldn't the higher pitch get me a higher top end? If so, how do I check that my engine isn't at it's limit to spin the prop? Is that based on the RPM at WOT?

Just now, teamerickson said:

Surprised the lift feature isn't taking care of this?

wedge in auto-mode is supposed to start in lift and then deploy to the preset, right? That isn't showing up on the dash if that's what it's doing. I'll double-check I have auto-mode enabled in the settings.

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shawndoggy
22 minutes ago, mikeo said:

Now for a related question: if RPM is the same (assuming the engine can turn the gears/driveshaft) wouldn't the higher pitch get me a higher top end? If so, how do I check that my engine isn't at it's limit to spin the prop? Is that based on the RPM at WOT?

Indmar's take on the issue, at least a couple of years ago, was that if you can't hit within 3-400 of max RPMs in any configuration (i.e. your current fully weighted condition) you are lugging your engine and need a lower pitched prop.  In the real world that's insane, at least according to how much weight people regularly push.  No way is someone going to hit 4800 rpms in your boat fully weighted, even with a 10.5" prop.  

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wheelman

Auto wedge does not work at surfing speeds. Auto wedge and lift mode only works in wake boarding presets. 

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mikeo
Just now, wheelman said:

Auto wedge does not work at surfing speeds. Auto wedge and lift mode only works in wake boarding presets. 

Thanks! That adds another piece to the puzzle; now I won't go try to figure out why lift mode isn't working.

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ID AX
4 hours ago, mikeo said:

 

In a perfect world I could get a 2773 and 2249 to test side by side with my 2315 and then pick what I liked best at the end of the day.

@shawndoggy is right.  Your trying to climb out of a hole and adding top end isn't going to help.  You need to sacrifice top end for more low end.  The 2773 and 2249 will both be worse than your 2315.  I would look into the 2949.  

What kind of a relationship do you have with your dealer?  They may have what you need and let you demo it.  Could be a long shot but this is something my dealer will do. 

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racer808

If the 2315 isn't getting it done jump to the 2951

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ibelonginprison

fwiw, I loaded the boat up. Full MLS, 750 rear port locker, 750 port side floor, 1000lb bow, running 10.6-10.8mph. The 2773 handled it.

Surfed pretty damn well, too. 

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surfdude

The 2773 is the best prop I've found for my 15 lsv with the 450. I'm burning way less fuel, comes out of the hole. Harder than my 14 with a 2315. 40 mph top end is nice too.

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surfdude

Do notice that it takes a little more tweaking to get the port side wave perfected

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mikeo

First off, thank you all for your input! This is what TMC is about for me, a place where we can exchange information and help each other out.

@shawndoggy great input and the bike analogy really helps. I'm not sure if I'm out of torque or out of RPM running ~3600 RPM @ 10.6 MPH @ 2000'. I might need to put the 1235 back on and see what the RPMs and speed are with it so I have an "apples to apples" comparison between the two. I was too anxious to change out the prop hoping for a drastic difference so I didn't take any notes.

@ID AX yes, I have a good relationship with my dealer but they don't stock much in the way of props and the ones they have a more ski specific than wake specific. I need to find a dealer or prop shop with a demo program. I'd willingly pay $100 (and a security deposit on my CC) to test 2-3 additonal props over a weekend.

@ibelonginprison I hope that my '15 has a bit more power than your '06 (both with the base Monsoon engine) and you're running a bit less weight than me. You've got ~1500 vs. my ~2600 in ballast and then the size of the gas tank 55 gal vs. 67 gal and then the "curb weight" of 3900 vs. 4500 lbs. but... I still have a question or two for you: what gear ratio is your v-drive? I can't find it in the Malibu specs and it looks like there are a few options for the ZF 63 IV that you should have. Also, are you "out of throttle" at 10.8 or is there still some room left if you needed to push it?

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Stevo

@mikeo I'm running the 2419, I'd offer it up but I'm not sure I'll get it back from Larson before taking off on vacation next week

ive been pleased with its performance, and my GPH has dropped into the high 4's

Edited by Stevo

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shawndoggy
7 hours ago, mikeo said:

First off, thank you all for your input! This is what TMC is about for me, a place where we can exchange information and help each other out.

@shawndoggy great input and the bike analogy really helps. I'm not sure if I'm out of torque or out of RPM running ~3600 RPM @ 10.6 MPH @ 2000'. I might need to put the 1235 back on and see what the RPMs and speed are with it so I have an "apples to apples" comparison between the two. I was too anxious to change out the prop hoping for a drastic difference so I didn't take any notes.

I think you are trying to make this more complicated than it is.  you aren't the first person to find that his motor wasn't up to the task of pushing a fully weighted boat.  As @Stevo suggests, going to the 2419 is the next step, and the step beyond is to go to one of the 11" pitched props (and then the final solution of a 10.5" prop if you need to).  

If it were me (and knowing the wave your hull produces at 11.4-12.2) I'd do what it takes to go faster.  Step 1 is to see how much weight you actually have to dump from your current setup to get there (it might not be as much as you think) and see how the wave looks.  Step 2, if you are unhappy with the wave, is to repeat that process with a 2419. Step 3 would be to go to an even more aggressive prop if you still aren't happy.  

A higher-than-2315 pitched prop is not the solution, nor is running the 1235 instead.  Sure, the 1235 may get you higher RPMs, but that will only be because it's slipping.  A 1235 is not going to hold speed or push big weight for surfing better than a 2315.  Many of us have been down that road, no need for you to waste time on the same failed exercise.

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ID AX
22 minutes ago, Stevo said:

@mikeo I'm running the 2419, I'd offer it up but I'm not sure I'll get it back from Larson before taking off on vacation next week

ive been pleased with its performance, and my GPH has dropped into the high 4's

I am running the 2419 w/ LS3.  I love this prop but I run at elevation, between 3000' and 5000'. 

With WM 820s, a 1000lb triangle and wedge at 2 clicks from lift, I run around 3500 rpms at 3000'.  I am super happy with this setup. 

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Stevo

I have the 350 and we ran loaded up at Oroville 2 weeks ago, (it's 1000 ft elev) j think the variable could be the PW2 , but I believe it will get you where you want to go

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thtrog

Mike, How much wedge are you running? Try lowering it a click or two and bet you will get to desired speed. The 2419 would be the next step, but in my experience there's negligible difference between the two props getting to surf speed.

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ibelonginprison

Vdrive, trans and engine configurations are similar all they way up. @ConnollyCrew has a '15 23LSV with the 5.7, and it's loooooaded down. He has a pretty aggressive prop, but our boats drive very similarly. (Obviously, his being new and mine being the old and busted, his is smoother) - but operationally speaking it's a very, very similar boat.

To answer your question I wasn't all the way in the throttle, I had room to go. My old cruise held speed just fine.

I DO NOT know what Connelly's boat would do with the 2773 and 5000-6000 lbs of weight on a 2773. I think it could possibly pull it off, but it would be a pain session after session. Maybe we'll swap props out next weekend (he won't be on the water this weekend.) 

 

It should be noted, I also don't have the wedge lift feature, so that will be a big advantage of yours over mine. When I loaded it up for wakeboarding, full MLS, 750's in each locker, 1k in the bow, wedge down, full crew - it struggled to get on plane. But it eventually did. Thankfully I ride in the realm of 20mph, and an extra 200-300 lb's in the rear lockers with a couple extra lb's up front are all it takes to have a fat, clean wake at those speeds. So I never ride wakeboard speeds at that weight.  Only surf. And it does that without issue.

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surfdude

I'm runing mine at around 3500 ft with roughly 4000#s of weight. I don't think it would quite work for the connellys! 11.5 mph, 3150 rpms. Boy where do the Connellys put all that weight? Love to see a picture!

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ConnollyCrew
24 minutes ago, surfdude said:

I'm runing mine at around 3500 ft with roughly 4000#s of weight. I don't think it would quite work for the connellys! 11.5 mph, 3150 rpms. Boy where do the Connellys put all that weight? Love to see a picture!

I would tell you, but then I would have to kill you.?

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Stevo

I heard he drops it in the V..................drive locker

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