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Monk

HELP 3 Year Noise @ Dealership Now

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Monk

This will be the short version of events leading up to this plea for help from the crew. No names with be used to try to stay on task. No need for a long discussion as to who is at fault or you should have done this. That does no one any good at this point. The clock is running, boat is sitting at the dealer. All work these last three years have been done by two Malibu Dealers. The noise in question started three years ago when we replaced our transmission (blower hose got rapped around the transmission and drive shaft). When we picked up the boat end of the season.  After the transmission and the bell housing was install we did a wet test drive. At that time I heard a noise when I would come from neutral to idle speed, no other time will you hear this noise. I asked the dealer tech riding with us what was this noise. To which he said it was the transmission? It would work its self out in time? When we got back to the dealership to pay the bill. I again asked this time to the owner about this noise and my concern. He got everyone together the tech who did the work along with the GM who also was on the boat when we did a wet test. All said again it was the transmission being new and needing some break-in time. So we paid and left scratching my head. being late in the season we rode a few more weekends then put the boat up for the year. The noise always being present, when i would bump it from neutral to idle back-and-forth. 

Season two we used the boat all year with the same noise driving me crazy. It never went away like we were told. Called the dealer a few times trying to get some guidance as what could be this noise. Nothing every cam of these discussions. In the meantime Malibu pulled the dealership from the dealer who did the work. Did not get a feeling they want to see us or the boat again. Along with I did not get a good feeling about Malibu pulling their dealership for what ever reason. So we put the boat back into the garage at the end of season two.

Season Three 2016: Pulled the boat  out two weeks before July 4th weekend. Same noise, after three days had enough. Pulled the boat and took it to the new Malibu dealer. Told him the whole story and said please get to the bottom of this noise. No problem..Next day get a call we know what your problem is. Thank God I said. It was the drive shaft and the strut that holds the drive shaft leading to the prop? Not the best explanation not very mechanically inclined. Hope this makes sense. I asked how this could have happen. Answer: Because you had the work done from the other Malibu dealer? I pressed him as to that is not a acceptable answer. Then he tells me I probably hit something. I assured him I had never hit anything the last 1/2 season, and I am the only one who has driven the boat since the new transmission work. Nothing... Give the go ahead for the repairs. New driveshaft and strut. I let them know after the work is done I will want to go out and wet test it.  With someone knowledgeable or the person who did the work. Go to pick up the boat and wet test it. Go for our ride guess what the noise is still there. The person who is with us because is is the week before the forth of July is some 22 year old who moves boats around for the dealer. I had the 22 year old listen to the nose I was having a problem with, and yes he also heard the noise I was talking about. It sounds like a low grinding sound right out of neutral to idle. No other time do you hear the noise. So he takes the boat back to the dealer I ask him to please to find the noise and have the GM/owner call me when he gets back form his 4th of July long weekend... No boat for our week at the lake, wife and 5 year old not happy.

Got a call for the GM yesterday he took the boat out and said you have a great sounding boat????????????WTH..... I said I am at a lost for words...Went round and round ask him if he had taken or talked to the 22 year old who he/the dealership had ride with me and my wife and 5 year old. Answer No. Said He would go back out with his engine person and see if they could hear the noise.

Short background, we are the second owners of this 1995 Malibu Sunsetter. We bought it from a family friend who took meticulous care of it. As we have also. For 15 years I have driven this boat around the lake for hours/days. I know every pop whistle hick up this boat has. It drives me crazy we can not fine this rubbing grinding noise from neutral to idle.

Sorry for this long post. But believe me there is a whole lot to this story that is not pertinent to getting this information to the crew to see if anyone has any idea what this noise my wife and I am hearing. Or something we have missed asking the dealer to look at. Today is the day they are taking the boat out to see if they can fine the noise. Any input is welcomed.. Trying to save season three..

One addition when we got the transmission and bell housing installed, they took out the old wax cord on the drive shaft and replaced it with a drip less system. Did not know it this might make the noise I am hearing.

Edited by Monk

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RTS

So you get this noise only when you come out of neutral and go to idle speed, correct?  As soon as you apply throttle it goes away?  

I think I had a similar situation in my boat.  In neutral (650 rpm), nothing.  At idle (closer to 600 rpm) I would get a noise.  Like a rubbing/grinding noise.  Turns out is was the impeller.  Simply put, it made a noise at 600 or so RPM that it did not make at any other RPM.

I think you are in a similar situation.  Something is rubbing and making a noise you don't like at an RPM that is below the idle speed (in neutral) of the engine.  

Some potentials culprits are: cutlas bearing (the thing I think you had replaced), the impeller (try swapping out with a new one or a different one like a globe), shaft packing (loosen/tighten/repack and see if something changes), rear engine seal (not a problem if you are not leaking oil), transmission seal (again, not a problem if you are not leaking fluid).

How much throttle does it take to make the noise disappear?  50 RPM?  100 RPM?  Can you get a recording of the sound and post it?

EDIT:  I just saw the last line of your post regarding the dripless shaft packing.  Can you get a competent person to man the helm, and recreate the noise while you have your head down by the packing to try to isolate the grinding to that item?  Can those dripless packing systems be adjusted?  i.e. made slightly looser around the shaft.  Maybe when they installed it they did not get whatever seal is used seated correctly?  Can it be disassembled and reassembled?

Edited by RTS

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Rednucleus

For starters you could use a length of heater hose to act as a stethoscope and listen to the various components to isolate the source of the noise (careful with hose around moving parts!!). Your description says transmission to me. You say it is only heard neutral to idle. Not heard in reverse? Not heard as you increase speed in forward?  I doubt shaft noise with that description. Was noise there before original work was done? Maybe you could post a video for us?

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oldjeep

So the noise happens for a moment when making the neutral to in gear transition?  Or it is constant at idle?

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Monk
1 hour ago, RTS said:

 

RTS:   50 rpm I hear the noise anything above I do not hear the noise. Impeller was changed out when they did the transmission 2 seasons ago. Very low hours on the impeller. But will have the dealer look at that, and change it out. Boat is in TN. We live in Ohio. So very tough to have eyes on the boat right now. I have looked and listen to the dripless unit and can not see any adjustment. Seems to be no noise coming from the dripless unit. Plus they just replaced the drive shaft so If there was any adjustment need they would have done that I hope.

Rednucleus:   No noise before the original work was done. Never every had this noise as long as we have owned this boat 15+ years now. Boat is 4hr away do not have a video of the noise. But will post one if the dealer can not find the noise today on his test run. Transmission has been looked at, they (dealer who has it now) say it looks ok and sounds ok. No leaks and is working as it should?

OldJeep:  The noise is constant @ idle, until I bump up the RPM's and then no noise.

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Woodski

@Monk:  I notice a difference in transmission clatter at idle speeds whether I use ATF or Hydraulic oil in the trans on my boat, Velvet Drive 71C.  The ATF results in more clatter compared to none with the Hydraulic oil, I use Mobil tractor hydraulic fluid, either 423 or 424 (can't remember which offhand) but any good tractor 10 wt. hydraulic fluid will work.  Check the fluid, if pink, it is ATF, if yellow or clearish, Hydraulic oil.  My guess is the new trans is using ATF, that is the current tendency compared to hydraulic oil which was the original fluid circa mid 90's.  Just a note, I have also seen similar comments from other Velvet Drive owners.  This noise happens in gear with throttle at idle so around 600-650 rpm +/-, once under more power noise is gone.

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Monk

Woodski: Yes it is ATF pink I have checking the fluid religiously, thinking it was leaking and thus making a noise. Thank you once I get my hands on the boat I will change the fluid to your suggestion hydraulic oil. I have been wanting to change the trans fluid to see if that would make a difference. What have the others done with the noise in there VevetDrive? Live with it? Or did changing to Hydraulic it alleviated the problem? i am ready to change everything out.

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85 Barefoot

1) have you pulled up the floor to listen for precisely where its coming from?  Start there.

2) my guess is your transmission linkage needs adjustment and the noise is coming from a lack of good engagement until more throttle is given.

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Monk
2 hours ago, 85 Barefoot said:

1) have you pulled up the floor to listen for precisely where its coming from?  Start there.

2) my guess is your transmission linkage needs adjustment and the noise is coming from a lack of good engagement until more throttle is given.

No I have not pulled the floor up to get a specific location of the noise. Will pass that info along..How do you adjust the transmission linkages?

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85 Barefoot

Monk, 

Once you isolate the location of the sound then more advice can be given.  Until you locate the source of the sound, you're going to get way more "try this" than needed.  If your transmission is for sure causing the sound and its at a dealer, they will know how to do so.  

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Monk

Understand 85 barefoot. While the boat was at the dealership and GM/owner was taking it out on the water yesterday to location the noise. I thought the crew might have had a similar experience. I then could direct the dealer in a general direction. Considering this is the second wet test the GM has done and could not hear the noise we are talking about. Grasping at any straw at this point to get this noise repaired. No word as to what was found if anything???

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oldjeep
Just now, Monk said:

Understand 85 barefoot. While the boat was at the dealership and GM/owner was taking it out on the water yesterday to location the noise. I thought the crew might have had a similar experience. I then could direct the dealer in a general direction. Considering this is the second wet test the GM has done and could not hear the noise we are talking about. Grasping at any straw at this point to get this noise repaired. No word as to what was found if anything???

Maybe that says that the "noise" is normal?  Hard for them to diagnose if you are not in the boat to point out what you find to be an abnormal noise.  If the trans was replaced it is entirely possible that it was replaced with a different model than was in there before. 

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jk13

^^ 10+ years of manufacturing differences between the two transmissions. Could be just a "new" normal noise.

Also, be careful swapping hydraulic fluid with ATF. In most cases you will be fine but there are a select few we've run into--specifically Western snow plow fluid that you wouldn't use anyway, but other fluids may do the same--that will deteriorate seals made of certain materials when mixed with ATF. Can't tell you how many plows I've had clear snotty clogs throughout that took multiple fluid/seals/hose changes to make it all go away. I'd stick with what is in there unless you can confirm compatibility.

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JasonK

Wish you could've been there when they pulled the transmission with the blower hose wrapped around it. Maybe the wire in the blower hose got up to the engine. Can someone explain why a bell housing would be changed from this happening?

Was a new trans installed or did they have yours re-built?

Try to get a transmission service station to have someone take a ride with you.

I'm going to go check my blower hose now.

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Monk
41 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Maybe that says that the "noise" is normal?  Hard for them to diagnose if you are not in the boat to point out what you find to be an abnormal noise.  If the trans was replaced it is entirely possible that it was replaced with a different model than was in there before. 

When we tried to pick up the boat the first time Sat before the 4th of July weekend we did a wet test. We road with one of their representatives and pointed out the noise. Made sure their rep. heard the same thing before letting them take it back to the shop to work on. The transmission model was the exact velvet drive as the old one. I still have the old transmission that was replaced sitting on a shelf in my garage.

38 minutes ago, jk13 said:

^^ 10+ years of manufacturing differences between the two transmissions. Could be just a "new" normal noise.

Also, be careful swapping hydraulic fluid with ATF. In most cases you will be fine but there are a select few we've run into--specifically Western snow plow fluid that you wouldn't use anyway, but other fluids may do the same--that will deteriorate seals made of certain materials when mixed with ATF. Can't tell you how many plows I've had clear snotty clogs throughout that took multiple fluid/seals/hose changes to make it all go away. I'd stick with what is in there unless you can confirm compatibility.

Thank you. Good point. We always ran ATF in the old transmission. Might give Skidim a call to pick their brain on different type fluids.

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racer808

The noise is your dripless seal, my MB has that & I have the same noise when I put it in gear & start to idle out then it instantly goes away as I give it gas.  Don't worry about that noise, unless they installed the OJ Dripless seal you're going to have other problems you'll be back with, like having to adjust it every 20 hours, or you'll notice your hull full of water one day, see nothing leaking, but put it gear & have your wife give it gas and water will be spraying everywhere from the seal.  Also, if you got the dripless without the water cooler, you're not gonna be happy.  These dripless seals, the ones made by PYI are a problem.  The previous owner of my boat went through hell with this seal but finally got it figured out.  It started leaking on me the second time I took it out.  Adjusted it & hasn't leaked in 20 hours but I ordered the OJ seal as I know I am going to need to replace this one.  The packing nut was so much nicer on my Malibu

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RTS
4 hours ago, racer808 said:

The noise is your dripless seal, my MB has that & I have the same noise when I put it in gear & start to idle out then it instantly goes away as I give it gas.  Don't worry about that noise, unless they installed the OJ Dripless seal you're going to have other problems you'll be back with, like having to adjust it every 20 hours, or you'll notice your hull full of water one day, see nothing leaking, but put it gear & have your wife give it gas and water will be spraying everywhere from the seal.  Also, if you got the dripless without the water cooler, you're not gonna be happy.  These dripless seals, the ones made by PYI are a problem.  The previous owner of my boat went through hell with this seal but finally got it figured out.  It started leaking on me the second time I took it out.  Adjusted it & hasn't leaked in 20 hours but I ordered the OJ seal as I know I am going to need to replace this one.  The packing nut was so much nicer on my Malibu

Dude...the Op has been stressing for 3 years over a noise that is only present when he puts his boat in gear until he leaves idle speed.  Put the possibility of an OJ Dripless seal failing into his head and he is going to have a stroke within 2 weeks!

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racer808
13 hours ago, RTS said:

Dude...the Op has been stressing for 3 years over a noise that is only present when he puts his boat in gear until he leaves idle speed.  Put the possibility of an OJ Dripless seal failing into his head and he is going to have a stroke within 2 weeks!

No no the OJ seal is the good seal, the PYI which is the more common one dealers and manufacturers have used it junk

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racer808

I could be wrong too

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saxton15

Is the sound like a dull humming?  Then as you pop it into gear it slowly goes away?

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Monk
On 7/12/2016 at 8:52 AM, saxton15 said:
On 7/12/2016 at 8:52 AM, saxton15 said:

 

      Is the sound like a dull humming?  Then as you pop it into gear it slowly goes away?

Yes that is the sound. Been keeping quiet not posting because I might go off. Best to keep a cool head until this gets fixed and I have the boat in the water skiing.  Was 4 week this past Tuesday 7/12/16 ONE month. Off site 1 hour away boat  being towed to their (Malibu Dealer) engine guy today some time? To balances the engine and take it out on the water to check it over?  Who knows. Ready to write the season off....

On 7/8/2016 at 7:16 PM, RTS said:

Dude...the Op has been stressing for 3 years over a noise that is only present when he puts his boat in gear until he leaves idle speed.  Put the possibility of an OJ Dripless seal failing into his head and he is going to have a stroke within 2 weeks!

I am just about there....

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saxton15

You might need to upload a short video or sound sample of the sound from neutral to gear for us to help you out.  I get a low humming sound from neutral to gear as well, but I've never felt a shudder, or seen a lot of leaking from the packing nut that would lead me to believe the transmission is hurting.  All my fluid levels and impeller are up to date as well.  This has always lead me to believe the sound is normal. 

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Cole2001
2 hours ago, Monk said:

 Was 4 week this past Tuesday 7/12/16 ONE month. Off site 1 hour away boat  being towed to their (Malibu Dealer) engine guy today some time? To balances the engine and take it out on the water to check it over?  Who knows. Ready to write the season off....

Am I the only one who thinks when your 100 k boat is broken down for long periods of time, the dealer should at least give you a boat to use in the mean time. Sort of like what a car dealership would do. It wouldn't have to be a new boat, just something that they have to get you out on the water. 

I just hate reading threads like this. There was a guy on the tige form who had his boat in the shop all summer and even down to the factory.   Giving out a demo is huge risk but it would at least keep clients as future buyers for the company. 

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saxton15

Guess it depends if you have a dealer to go back to. 

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oldjeep
59 minutes ago, Cole2001 said:

Am I the only one who thinks when your 100 k boat is broken down for long periods of time, the dealer should at least give you a boat to use in the mean time. Sort of like what a car dealership would do. It wouldn't have to be a new boat, just something that they have to get you out on the water. 

I just hate reading threads like this. There was a guy on the tige form who had his boat in the shop all summer and even down to the factory.   Giving out a demo is huge risk but it would at least keep clients as future buyers for the company. 

I don't think a 95 Sunsetter is a 100K boat

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