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RyanB

Calling 1500 Towers (Full Size SUV Especially)

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RyanB

Looking for feedback on tow vehicles.  I am very disappointed in the towing manners of the new to us Yukon XL (2011 Denali).

It rides great non towing, but put the 23LSV behind it, and everything changes.  At highway speeds, you can definitely feel a "wiggle" in the boat trailer.  It is not like it is so bad that it sways into the other lane, and it isn't so bad that the passengers notice it, but you can also feel that transfer into the Yukon.

Mrs Bretz towed the boat home from the lake over the weekend, and said she could feel being pushed around at 65 MPH with no wind.  I towed it out there, and it was tiring at 70 MPH, and I wouldn't tow any faster than that.  (our interstate speed limits are 75/80, and I know the limitations on ST tires, so I would rather not has that out here).

A little back ground.  I only towed the boat behind the RV once because of this same feeling.  I could feel it a little bit behind the 2500 Burb, but not nearly as pronounced.  I notice nothing when towing with the 3500 DRW (but with that, I don't really notice our 12000 pound fifth wheel, so not a fair comparison).

I have had the boat on a scale, and it weighs about 6500 pounds loaded with the trailer.  I have not checked the tongue weight, but it is over 500 pounds.  Boat trailer tire are at max PSI.

Autoride on the Yukon works fine.  Tires are in good condition, and aired up to what is recommended on the door panel.

If you tow with a half-ton based vehicle, and your boat tows great, can you please share with me what you have for tires on your tow vehicle?  The Yukon has "P" rated tires, so I am thinking that might be part of the issue.  I really don't want to go to weight distribution.

Thanks in advance.

 

The only photo I have right now.

172F6CC5-C02F-4A24-B146-739EBD92C4AA_zps

And one with the old Burb, just for comparison.  Much less sway with this set up,  but it was a 2500.

 

D947ED5A-D760-4744-8D1B-634FF539DD14_zps

Edited by RyanB

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oldjeep

LT rated Firestone Destination AT.  Great 4 season tire - I get about 40K out of a set on my 2009 Ram Crewcab 1500.  Pretty much any LT rated tire will be a big improvement while towing, you will likely notice a ride difference when not towing.  Once you switch to an LT tire your door panel pressure is really invalid, you'll want to run more air and it may cause an issue with TPMS reporting over pressure unless you can have your dealer adjust the set points once you figure out where you want your pressure to be.  I removed my TPMS years ago after a couple of them rotted out and caused sudden deflation (Aluminum stems)

One more thing - you could just add more air to your P rated tires to handle the load, ignore the door pressure and just don't exceed the sidewall pressure

Edited by oldjeep

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Swivel

Can't see the photo at work but I tow the boat and a 24ft trailer (not at the same time) with a 1/2 ton SUV and no troubles.  Conti CrossContact LX20, P-rated but as oldjeep says, I bump up the air and it's all good.  That said, LT-rated tires are a plus when towing a lot.  Pay attention to tongue height -- a little high is better than a little low for sway avoidance, so experiment with an adjustable hitch or different drop/rise to see what your trailer likes.

Also some tires are very sensitive to air pressure because they have flexy sidewalls.  I had some Michelin LT's that squirmed like you were like driving on ice unless you pumped the pressure up to near max.  Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Edited by Swivel
Typooo

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skyskier

Trailers will sway if the front is too light. Are you hauling lots of gear in the rear of the boat? Not sure if this matters with dual axle trailers. I would add some temporary weight in the bow and see if it makes a difference. Fat sack maybe?

 

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wakesonthesnake

I went with the BFG All Terrain T/A.  It was one of the very few LT tires to fit my wheel/Expedition combination.  They are a bit more aggressive but look good.  They made a big difference when towing.

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DAI

I had 2 non XL versions of that Yukon Denali (2007 & 2010) and never had the towing issues you described with the shorter wheel base running factory equipped tires.  I always ran the tires at the upper end of the max tire pressure on the vehicle.  The only issue I had with the YD towing was the class III hitch on both years and no capability (at least at that time) to upgrade to a higher class.

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Falko

Aramada.

Continental something or others, factory tires. Tows fine with them, fill to max on the tires, 42psi I believe it is. I had Geolanders on the Expedition previously and those were a little mushy compared to the conti's that it had prior. I wouldn't get those tires again.

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RyanB

Thanks for the feedback.  The tires are currently at 37 PSI.  I will go up to the 44 max and give it a try.

I believe there is plenty of tongue weight, so I don't think that is the problem, but a good suggestion none the less.

If more air in the tires doesn't help I will either try to tow something else with the Yukon, or try to tow the Malibu behind someone's 1500.  The more I think about it, the more I am concerned that the trailer tires may be the issue.

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kx250frider617

I tow with an older 03' ram 1500 and a 12' axis a22. As far as stability, I can rarely feel the boat back there. Power wise, I definitely can feel it. 

 

I I have my truck on nitto terra grappler 305/70/17 that are a class E, 10 ply tire. I also have airbag helper springs that I put around 30 psi into. 

However, I have my front torsion bars tightened down a little bit to level the truck for the bigger tires. That stiffened the front suspension up a bit. 

 

Many only complaint is the Henri gas engine. It definitely has power, but it's all higher in the rpms. The engine either lugs real bad in too high of a gear, or it downshifts two gears and wants to pull at 80mph. Then there's the 8mpg while towing.  

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RyanB

Went on a short trip today.  Before I left, I added 44 PSI (max on sidewall) to the tires.  They were at about 41 PSI according to my gauge.  The TPMS in the truck showed they went from about 38 to 41.  I will check with a different gauge tomorrow.

Anyway, I didn't notice much difference, and I have a hard time believing that another 3 PSI (or, less than 10% of the max PSI) will make much of a difference.  Maybe I am just too used to towing with my DRW......

Photo for effect.

3B6A64EF-BC11-439E-A74F-816C69ABBBCB_zps

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Nitrousbird

I've towed for years with my Avalanche and now with my Escalade EXT.  Both are on the Suburban frame, same as your XL.  I've never noticed any of this, even in high winds.

Boat wise, ours is ~1500lbs less, but I've towed a couple other heavy things without issue in the Avalanche that doesn't tow as well as my Escalade.  One thing I never, ever noticed was any type of sway.  That said, the majority of my towing with these two trucks has been our boat.  I've done passes through the mountains with my Avalanche with the trailer on both the 14" stock wheels and the 18" upgrade doing up to around 80MPH at some points and it was rock stable.  That's on a truck with 17" tires at stock pressure. 

 

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REW

I tow with an older Suburban 1500 and have noted no issues even when having a blowout on the trailer.  I have had no problems on road trips into the mountains in NC or driving from Charlotte to Knoxville.  I have a set of Firestone LT tires on now and keep the pressures at 10% below max on the sidewall.  IIRC 40psi.  

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1HELLUVALIFE

Coming from the dually down to a 1500, you will defiantly tell a difference. I borrowed my dads 1500 when my truck was in the shop (2500 Dodge diesel). The 1500 definitely had more sway and rear end bounce, it was on 10 ply tires as well. Anybody who says they tow 6500lbs behind a 1500 and "doesn't even know its back there" I question. lol 

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MaliWop

We do the majority of our towing with my 3500 Denali Duramax. But the odd time when we do use my wife's Escalade we don't have issues. Its pretty rock solid and has tons of power. It uses twice the fuel as the diesel when towing though. And I just can't get used to constant downshifting of the gasser. That 6.2L is a beast.

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RyanB
20 minutes ago, MaliWop said:

We do the majority of our towing with my 3500 Denali Duramax. But the odd time when we do use my wife's Escalade we don't have issues. Its pretty rock solid and has tons of power. It uses twice the fuel as the diesel when towing though. And I just can't get used to constant downshifting of the gasser. That 6.2L is a beast.

Kind of the situation I am in with multiple vehicles.  When we go on weekend trips with the RV, the dually pulls the RV and the Yukon is with the boat.  Long trips will still be the DRW.

As I said, maybe I am just making too much out of it.

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MaliWop

First world problems. It's what this forum is all about lol.

Unless you're going to replace the Denali with a diesel I'd keep it and run it with the LSV. Just make sure you keep good tires on it and run proper pressures. Take the rated capacity on your tires, scale the rear axle of your truck with the boat on. If you're not over you're good to go.  Use the diesel when you can. I know that feeling of going back to towing with a gasser after towing with the diesel. It's just not the same. But sometimes the SUV is just more practical with kids and dog.

Edited by MaliWop

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cowwboy

We tow with my wifes 2011 escalade sometimes and don't have any problems like that. But we also have 20's on the trailer if that makes a difference.  

Honestly i prefer the smooth ride while pulling with the escalade with the magnetic shocks and air ride. But would rather put miles on an older diesel. 

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jetskipro550

Moving to load range E tires on my Tundra made a big difference in how stable it felt while towing. I will run them at 75PSI for long trip (80PSI max) and it's most noticeable in corners and over bumps in the road. The truck doesn't seem to 'roll' as much in the corners and the back end doesn't get as squirrely on bumps. New tires aren't cheap, but when it comes time to replace it would be worth looking into.

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IXFE

Our 2010 Yukon XL Denali towed great!  But it had 22's and my trailers always have 18's. Less sidewall means less flex. That's just my thinking. 

Here she is with my '12 VLX... man I loved that boat  

detroit.jpg

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cbftbl87
On 7/8/2016 at 1:48 AM, RyanB said:

Went on a short trip today.  Before I left, I added 44 PSI (max on sidewall) to the tires.  They were at about 41 PSI according to my gauge.  The TPMS in the truck showed they went from about 38 to 41.  I will check with a different gauge tomorrow.

Anyway, I didn't notice much difference, and I have a hard time believing that another 3 PSI (or, less than 10% of the max PSI) will make much of a difference.  Maybe I am just too used to towing with my DRW......

Photo for effect.

3B6A64EF-BC11-439E-A74F-816C69ABBBCB_zps

 

Try a Ball Mount with a larger drop to lower the tongue a bit. 

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95echelon
On 7/9/2016 at 8:36 AM, cbftbl87 said:

 

Try a Ball Mount with a larger drop to lower the tongue a bit. 

If it helps I have a 5 1/2" drop on my 07 Suburban (same frame) Lighter boat for sure but I think you need to look into the trailer or trailer weighting. 

I have had a 9000 pound dump trailer behind mine and never had swaying. Swaying is a trailer issue. Your other rigs were just better at controlling it. 

Could also have your suspension checked out on the rig just to be sure. 

 

EDIT: after Oldjeep and RyanB's replies below I can say that 5.5" will be pretty much level or a little bit of bow down on my extreme trailer.

Edited by 95echelon

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RyanB

I had a trailer repair guy look at my 5th wheel today, so I asked him.  He suggests towing level (which I am).  Said that LT tires on the Yukon would help, but he also suggested a trailer issue.  Suggested starting by verifying the tongue weight, and going from there.

Bad part is there is no easy way to change weight distribution on this trailer - the bow stop is welded on.  From him eyeballing it, he thought that the axles were a little far forward.

So, I guess I will try to get it on a scale and verify the tongue weight.  Also think it would be a good idea to measure from the back of the boat to the center of the back axle, so anyone that has a 23LSV that can measure, I would appreciate your help.  Will also go to the dealer and see if I can get a measurement there.

Hard to believe that the trailer would be set up incorrect, but I guess anything is possible.  Might be jumping the gun here, but if that is the issue, any thoughts on getting Malibu or Boat Mate to address the issue?

My wife towed the boat home from the lake this weekend, and I followed in the RV.  I didn't notice a ton of trailer sway, but she did say she felt it.

I did see way more sway then I would have liked one time.  We had about 110 miles on a 65 MPH two-lane road.  When she passed a slower moving truck, and came back into her lane, it fish tailed quite a bit.  The trailer did the same thing to me as I was pulling it down.  I know I was going around 80 MPH at the time, getting around a slower truck.  It shouldn't do that.....

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oldjeep
5 hours ago, RyanB said:

I had a trailer repair guy look at my 5th wheel today, so I asked him.  He suggests towing level (which I am).  Said that LT tires on the Yukon would help, but he also suggested a trailer issue.  Suggested starting by verifying the tongue weight, and going from there.

Bad part is there is no easy way to change weight distribution on this trailer - the bow stop is welded on.  From him eyeballing it, he thought that the axles were a little far forward.

So, I guess I will try to get it on a scale and verify the tongue weight.  Also think it would be a good idea to measure from the back of the boat to the center of the back axle, so anyone that has a 23LSV that can measure, I would appreciate your help.  Will also go to the dealer and see if I can get a measurement there.

Hard to believe that the trailer would be set up incorrect, but I guess anything is possible.  Might be jumping the gun here, but if that is the issue, any thoughts on getting Malibu or Boat Mate to address the issue?

My wife towed the boat home from the lake this weekend, and I followed in the RV.  I didn't notice a ton of trailer sway, but she did say she felt it.

I did see way more sway then I would have liked one time.  We had about 110 miles on a 65 MPH two-lane road.  When she passed a slower moving truck, and came back into her lane, it fish tailed quite a bit.  The trailer did the same thing to me as I was pulling it down.  I know I was going around 80 MPH at the time, getting around a slower truck.  It shouldn't do that.....

How much stuff do you have in the boat and are you travelling with a full tank?

Fish tailing typically indicates that your tongue is too high or your tongue weight is too light, not that you have too much tongue weight.  From your picture I would lower your hitch, may be level but down is a little better so that it doesn't wind up tilted back every time you hit a little bump.  Full air suspensions make it hard to set proper tongue height since they try to compensate by self leveling

 

If you are light on the tongue then it is possible to add a 2nd spare to the tongue or make sure your compartments in the back are not full of hundreds of lbs of stuff.

 

Edited by oldjeep

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asnowman

I towed our 23lsv and now our vtx with my 07 xl denali, never had an issue with either pushing me around. The utility trailer with small backhoe that I occasionally to can push it around a bit, but it doesn't make me uncomfortable.

As others have said, try a bigger drop on your hitch.  I would recommend getting an adjustable height one so you can make adjustments along the way. I did that with our old escalade xl, stopped at every rest area along the way, and lowered the ball until it felt right. 1 notch up or down depending on how the vehicle and trailer are loaded can make a big difference in how it tows.

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RyanB

Thanks for the advice. I try to minimize the weight in the boat on the trailer so we don't have any gear in the boat other than vests and boards. 

I agree that this is now likely y be too little tongue weight, and have thought about adding a 2nd spare for our long trips anyway, just need to find a spot on the trailer to do it. 

I am extremely hesitant to tow tongue down with surge brakes as I have been told by two trailer repair people that this can cause the brakes to stick, burning them up. Actually had trouble with my last boat and that is what it was blamed on. 

What about adding lead to the bow?  That would make a better surf wake and give me more tongue weight. 

As to the question regarding fuel, I usually fill when I get close to my destination. On the way down, I filled up 25 miles from the lake and I added 53 gallons. Is guess the tank was about the same level coming home. 

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