Electric choke for Weber carb? '94 Echelon

[Michigan boarder]

I have the stock Weber carb on my engine.  The engine was rebuilt last year and we put an Eldebrock Performer manifold on it, and I no longer have the rod going into the manifold to actuate the choke (as it was with the old manifold).  What is the best way to figure out what electric choke kit I can put on this carb?

[Woodski]

One way would be to do the google search on parts for the Mercruiser Tournament Ski engine, and also do one for the Weber carb.  I will look to see if I have a part number that will help you out.

Just did a google search on Carter AFB electric choke, they can be had off ebay for ~$25.  Weber & Carter AFB have same housing.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Woodski

[Michigan boarder]

Just now, Woodski said:

One way would be to do the google search on parts for the Mercruiser Tournament Ski engine, and also do one for the Weber carb.  I will look to see if I have a part number that will help you out.

Good idea, I'll try that.  Another option I thought of after posting was to call Flying Fish Carbs, they are the ones that rebuilt this one and could probably set me up with something too.

[4nryde]

I bought an electric kit to convert my 93 echelon.  It didnt work out due to a missing vacuum passage in the carb body.  There is a small passage that is normally closed off with a lead plug, my carb did not have this passage.  

 

This link shows the conversion process for a carter afb which is pretty much the same as our weber carbs.

http://www.hotrodhotline.com/md/html/electric_choke_conversion.php

And here is a pic showing the sealed passage my carb did not have.

[MadMan]

44 minutes ago, 4nryde said:

I bought an electric kit to convert my 93 echelon.  It didnt work out due to a missing vacuum passage in the carb body.  There is a small passage that is normally closed off with a lead plug, my carb did not have this passage.  

 

You can always drill out that missing passage yourself.

[jbower]

I have a good working Weber with electric choke already on it sitting at the shop collecting dust

At least I believe it's a Weber. Came off my old tournament ski

[Michigan boarder]

Thanks for that link @4nryde, pretty detailed tutorial!

I found it too @Woodski, is this the one that you saw? Ebay choke kit

@jbower, do you want to sell the choke off of it?

Do I need that passage that 4nryde referenced for something?  Boat is on the lift back at the house, so I can't see the carb.

[jbower]

@Michigan boarder sorry checked again and it's a carter carb 

[Malibu Jordy]

An Edelbrock carb is basically a rebuilt Carter, weber, afb. Im a carb guy and typically chokes are interchangeable, you may go that option also.  As for wiring, a good ground and KEY ON power and youre away.

[Woodski]

@Michigan boarder:  Yes, one of the ones I saw on the ebay site. As noted, Carter/Weber/Ebrock are all basically the same family of carbs.

[Michigan boarder]

Well, I never got around to doing this choke.  But now I'm ready.  It's amazing how much more money and time you have when you only have 1 house.

Unfortunately, the passage on my carb is block, like 4nryde's is below.  So hopefully I will be able to pry that lead plug out.  Hopefully it has a simple lead plug, and no drilling is needed.  I called the place that I swapped out my carb back in 2013 and they said "Sorry, but you need to swap it out for an electric choke carb" to the tune of $300.  Not about to do that.

I found this kit here: ebay choke kit and it looks like the hole pattern will match up exactly.

 

On 5/26/2016 at 8:12 PM, 4nryde said:

 

[Michigan boarder]

Reviving this thread again....@powbmps set me up with his old carb 2 years ago, hooked me up!  Well, now that I'm home all the time and the house stuff is wrapping up I am going to do this before I put the boat in the water.  This carb was rebuilt, but it does not have the jets in it, so I need to take the jets out of my current carb and put them in his.  I have not done the youtube search yet, does anyone have any tips on making this carb & jet swap go well?

[Woodski]

@Michigan boarder - It is very easy.  The two outer stainless needle jet covers are removed using a torx bit, be careful, springs under them, under the needles are the main jets.  Take off the carb top as you will be doing both mains and secondaries and access is very easy.  Jets, needles and even the needle spring will need to be matched from your current setup and I would look at the accelerator pump size also to keep consistency as marine ones tend to be richer.  You can search for Edelbrock or Carter AFB videos, carbs are the same.

[Michigan boarder]

On 4/5/2020 at 12:17 PM, Woodski said:

@Michigan boarder - It is very easy.  The two outer stainless needle jet covers are removed using a torx bit, be careful, springs under them, under the needles are the main jets.  Take off the carb top as you will be doing both mains and secondaries and access is very easy.  Jets, needles and even the needle spring will need to be matched from your current setup and I would look at the accelerator pump size also to keep consistency as marine ones tend to be richer.  You can search for Edelbrock or Carter AFB videos, carbs are the same.

Thanks @Woodski His old carb is from a response, so the accelerator pump should be the same, right?

Got the old one off today, heading to the basement later to swap things around on a table.

 

 

[Woodski]

Should be, can you read the number stamped on top.  Don’t quote me but I think .035 might have been original.  I upsized mine with great results.

[Michigan boarder]

Watched a good vid on youtube, it looks really simple.  I'm basically just moving those parts from mine to the new carb, checking to make sure the float level is the same, etc.  My son is going to do it with me tomorrow, nice little project for us, he's never had a carb apart before.  I saved a pic for quick reference on my phone, screen shot and crop from a vid:

 

[Michigan boarder]

Here are the two carbs.  What do I do with the hose from my old carb (on the right) that was used for the choke, cut it short and plug it with something?  Do they make plugs for the carb body?

 

[justgary]

You should be able to buy a blister pack with a few rubber female vacuum plugs at your local auto parts store. 

[Woodski]

@Michigan boarder - back to your question on accel pump, maybe depending on which marinizer did it, and probably if both carbs are black as that is a clue a Mercury.  I suggest the linkage go in the hole that moves the lever the most for the given stroke (will give you the most fuel delivery).  Increasing the size of the discharge nozzle helped too.  What are your primary and secondary jet sizes?  Did you go up in size with the displacement increase and cam change, I did with mine as the cam is much more efficient.

[Michigan boarder]

2 hours ago, Woodski said:

@Michigan boarder - back to your question on accel pump, maybe depending on which marinizer did it, and probably if both carbs are black as that is a clue a Mercury.  I suggest the linkage go in the hole that moves the lever the most for the given stroke (will give you the most fuel delivery).  Increasing the size of the discharge nozzle helped too.  What are your primary and secondary jet sizes?  Did you go up in size with the displacement increase and cam change, I did with mine as the cam is much more efficient.

I did use that hole for the accel pump, actually based on the input from the crew, I think you were a part of that too a few years ago.  It made a difference.  No idea on the jet sizes.  The history on my current carb is that I was experiencing an occasional misfire, and had ruled everything else out (timing, plugs, cap, rotor, fuel filter, etc.).  The carb was the only thing left being original from 1994 and the July 4th weekend was coming, so I swapped it for a rebuilt at FlyingFish carbs.  Shortly after bolting it up, the head gasket failed and #5 cylinder was detonated.  That was in 2013.  Fast forward with the rebuilt engine in 2015, at the dyno machine we used 4 different carbs - my carb, one from another boat, a 750cfm, and an 850cfm (from the builder's hot rod).  The difference was 383hp in my carb at 34 degree full advance versus 388hp in the 850cfm at 36 degree full advance, and I think a 40ft/lb difference in torque.  The 750 and the other carbs were somewhere in between.  So I simply kept my carb and went with that.

So, I haven't pulled it apart yet, waiting for my son to finish up some projects he's working on for school.  My thoughts are actually to take the accel, metering rods, jets, everything from my carb and swap it to the new one, because worst case I'm still running with 383hp.  Or do you suggest anything different?

[Woodski]

That is a good plan, I do suggest documenting what the parts are, 2 reasons, one to know and we can compare setups which may give some insight on perhaps a change or two that could improve what you have (or not).  As I noted, for me going to the 383 with my custom cam required a jet change as it was running lean at WOT.  I bumped the jets up 10% richer (same as the displacement increase %) and that helped.  Of course it is also cam sensitive.  Even with richening up the mixture I am actually getting significantly better fuel economy, more than a 10% improvement.  Getting that good fuel shot for initial launch will be helpful on the footing side.

Should be a fun project for the kid to learn and some good bonding. 

Also - what is the youtube video?

Edited April 13, 2020 by Woodski

[Michigan boarder]

This vid here.  I have the dyno sheets all at work, I'll take a look when I get there tomorrow night but I am pretty sure that it was not too lean.  Finals are next week and both boys are really stressed, so hopefully he will find some time to break away.  I told him I'm not touching it until he's ready, it's not often that we have a reason to disassemble a carb....let alone even see a carb.

 

 

[Woodski]

Have your son read this:  https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/enginelabs-carb-science-series-inside-edelbrocks-avs2-carburetors/

Basically a next gen version of the Weber / Edelbrock / Carter carb that is OE on Mercs.

[Michigan boarder]

We will check that out!  He had his last final exam this afternoon, and our plan is to dig into it tomorrow evening.

[Michigan boarder]

We got both carbs apart.  Here are our findings:

Old carb

Metering rods 6542

Springs 1 30/32"

Primary jets 120407

Secondary jets 120398

Float height 7/16"

Discharge nozzle #35

Accel pump.....see pics.  The spring is a larger diameter, and there was another spring between the accel pump and the housing

 

New carb

Metering rods 6850

Springs 1 10/32"

No jets (as was disclosed)

Float height 5/16"

Discharge nozzle #35

Accel  pump...see pics

 

My questions are:

Should I go with larger jets and/or metering rods and/or different springs?  It ran really well before, but could I get a little more out of it?

Which accelerator pump should I use?  Was the new carb missing a second spring?

Should I go with 5/16 or 7/16 for float height?