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minnmarker

Jabsco Ballast Puppy Run Dry Protection - Anybody Tried It?

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minnmarker

I've got 3 of these and watch/listen to the bags every time I drain them to make sure the pump gets shut off. 

Has anybody let them run until they shut off - either intentionally or by accident?

What happened?  Impeller damage?

Not that I plan to make a regular practice of letting them shut themselves off, but it would be nice to know how well this feature works.

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minnmarker

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shawndoggy

Mine never ran long enough to shut off but did run dry a couple of times for probably 5 minutes at a time.  You will get significant premature impeller wear long before any auto shut down circuitry kicks in.  

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Ndawg12
7 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

Mine never ran long enough to shut off but did run dry a couple of times for probably 5 minutes at a time.  You will get significant premature impeller wear long before any auto shut down circuitry kicks in.  

So whats the advantage of them then?  IIRC they're slower and more expensive.  

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shawndoggy
4 minutes ago, Ndawg12 said:

So whats the advantage of them then?  IIRC they're slower and more expensive.  

I don't think that they are actually more expensive once you factor in the switch and the price of the wiring harness?  They weren't at the time I bought mine back in 2013 anyhow.  I think it was actually a little cheaper because it was an all-in-one solution where all you had to do was wire power and ground to the switch and wire up the pump.

They are slower on paper but in practice not really noticeable vs. Johnson (which I added the next season for the xover pump).

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MLA

Do you have a pic of this dry impeller wear next to a new impeller? I hardly ever see failed impellers these days. 

Also, the johnson reversible has the same run-dry IIRC.

The Jabsco is a little slower, but once installed, we are talking seconds not minutes. The Jabsco is typically more expensive, but it also comes with a prei-wired switch with labeled actuator. 

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shawndoggy
25 minutes ago, MLA said:

Do you have a pic of this dry impeller wear next to a new impeller? I hardly ever see failed impellers these days. 

Also, the johnson reversible has the same run-dry IIRC.

The Jabsco is a little slower, but once installed, we are talking seconds not minutes. The Jabsco is typically more expensive, but it also comes with a prei-wired switch with labeled actuator. 

No, no pics. The vanes were just a little squared off and fill times were really going up. Replaced with a new one and it got better. Old and new impeller were both orange FWIW. 

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MLA

orange, so a fairly recent pump generation, huh! Was there a noticeable change in performance after the dry running or did you pull the impeller out of caution. Run an older black dry for minutes and you knew the impeller was toast. I get so few requests for impellers, i still have 2 black ones on the peg board. The green ones did well and the orange seem to be better. 

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shawndoggy

LOL this was after REPEATEDLY running dry.  The culmination of several "oops" moments.  After about 140ish hours of use over two seasons.  So it happened more than once.  Then eventually I was just having trouble filling and draining (but more on the fill side) the bag.  I think it got worse slowly but towards the end it became very noticeable.

When I pulled the impeller the vanes were "squared" rather than rounded.  Like I said the fact that the issue was solved when the impeller was replaced leads me to believe that this was the issue.

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MLA

only square edges after multiple run dry episodes, thats good press for the orange impellers.  

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Nitrousbird
On 5/11/2016 at 4:10 PM, minnmarker said:

I've got 3 of these and watch/listen to the bags every time I drain them to make sure the pump gets shut off. 

 

Just reconfigure to dump above the water line.  It's easier to monitor that way.  Plus you can always do a surprise water jet to the face of anyone next to the boat...

I went Johnson when I did mine in 2012.  It was significantly cheaper once I shopped around, even after buying the switch (as I couldn't use the cover the Jabsco came with as it didn't match my factory switch covers).  

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minnmarker
2 minutes ago, Nitrousbird said:

Just reconfigure to dump above the water line.  It's easier to monitor that way.  Plus you can always do a surprise water jet to the face of anyone next to the boat...

I went Johnson when I did mine in 2012.  It was significantly cheaper once I shopped around, even after buying the switch (as I couldn't use the cover the Jabsco came with as it didn't match my factory switch covers).  

Good idea and I considered that but I'm feeding all 3 pumps through a single 1-1/2" thru hull and the plumbing is tight.  Putting in 3 one way valves and Ts and 3 more thru hulls is not in the cards.

What I am thinking of doing, and would appreciate feedback from the crew, is putting vacuum cut off switches between the bags and the pump so they'll automatically cut power to the pump when they draw the bag flat.  Have to look for parts.

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MLA

You can feed 3 with a 1-1/4" no problem, so 1-1/2 is more than plenty. 

Id reconsider the dump over the side route. Great concept but the check valves leak air causing the pumps to cavitate (you know, run kinda dry) resulting in reduced flow rate. The check valves are meant to close when pushed upon but not close when a vacuum is drawn on the opposite side. This is where the fail. 

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Nitrousbird
3 hours ago, MLA said:

Id reconsider the dump over the side route. Great concept but the check valves leak air causing the pumps to cavitate (you know, run kinda dry) resulting in reduced flow rate. The check valves are meant to close when pushed upon but not close when a vacuum is drawn on the opposite side. This is where the fail. 

All three of my pumps are setup to dump over the side.  I've had 0.0 issues with this method.  

That theory of they aren't designed to be closed via vacuum doesn't make sense.  If that was the case then how would they work for vents, as vacuum is what closes them.  I've seen no difference in fill/drain times from filling/draining under the boat to fill under/drain over.  Less abusive to my pumps as I'm more aware of when they done pumping water out.

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MLA
15 minutes ago, Nitrousbird said:

All three of my pumps are setup to dump over the side.  I've had 0.0 issues with this method.  

That theory of they aren't designed to be closed via vacuum doesn't make sense.  If that was the case then how would they work for vents, as vacuum is what closes them.  I've seen no difference in fill/drain times from filling/draining under the boat to fill under/drain over.  Less abusive to my pumps as I'm more aware of when they done pumping water out.

Im happy to hear that yours is still working. In the half dozen or so that I have done, using multiple brands and types of check valves, I did not like the end results. I could hear air leaking past the check valves by the sound of the pump. You could also see this at the vent and drain thu-hulls. So, not talking theory, but sharing actual experience from more than one setup. 

There is significantly more vacuum placed on a check valve thats directly in the pump plumbing, compared to one thats in a vent line of a sac. The pump suction is drawing mostly on the water. As the water is drawn out, the sac collapses upon itself. The c/v merely prevent air from taking the place of the evacuating water. When diverting the drain flow over the side, you have at least one c/v that the pump draws a direct vacuum, an this is the one that is the weak point. 

Less abusive is arguable if a c/v is leaking and the pump is sucking air. 

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minnmarker

So what does everyone think of the vacuum switch. I found a SPDT one that works down to 2" water column. Will try it on one pump If no one else has.

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