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SnubNose

Cheap way to improve Fosgate system

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SnubNose

Hey I have a 2012 MXZ with the Fosgate system... 4 titan tower speakers, 12 inch fosgate sub under helm, and 8 fosgate interior speakers and 2 or maybe 3 amps not sure. I believe this is sound pack 3. I burnt up the factory sub under warranty and got it replaced.

Everytime I turn up anything bassy to 30 sound level and punch even half way you can smell the sub starting to burn up...

I have looked at upgrading to wetsounds many times, but at this point I would rather do something cheap and get wetsounds on next boat in future.

Now my boat is no longer covered under warranty so I would like to hear some opinions on tinkering with my stock system to get best results

Could i turn up an amp to get more out of speakers? Could i be modify sub to be able to use it without getting that burning smell? 

I have dealt with auto systems before but never touched a marine system and dont know how to wire up or build boxes or anything of that matter.

I also have a 12 inch kicker sub that has been sitting in my garage > http://www.crutchfield.com/p_2064TRT124/Kicker-40TCWRT124.html?tp=112

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SnubNose

Ok after doing some more research it seems I need to do the following at miniumum :

1. Adjust the amps for inboard, tower, and sub. Possible change which amp controls which speaker/sub for better results.

Can someone guide me what knobs and buttons to turn on the amp for the best results?

2. Have a box built for the 12' Fosgate. I think ill leave that skill to a local audio guy unless i can simply build a cube plywood box with circular cutout in front.

I still would like to know if I could use the sealed enclosure i already have some way > http://www.crutchfield.com/p_2064TRT124/Kicker-40TCWRT124.html?tp=112

3. Add a WS-420 or something of that sort for an EQ.

Will the newest WS-420 work for my system? And what is the process for mounting and hooking that up?

4. Possibly remove in board speakers amp and replace it with (insert suggestions here please) 

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Truekaotik

Your local Marine installer will have all the answers you seek, Give him a chance. I do not mean a marine mechanic that slaps radios in or does replacements but a professional dedicated marine installer.  I am not speaking of a car stereo installer but someone who actually does many marine installs a year. This will be night and day difference on advice. 

Edited by Truekaotik

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Cmb396

I have the same system in my 13 lsv, here's what I did...took it to my local audio guy and had a WS420 installed with a BTCV, opposed to the ws420bt. Also had him tune the factory amp setting. Huge difference, and now everything is adjustable.

secondly, I went the easy route and installed a Qbomb sub box under the helm, see my thread just a few down, and let me say, night and day difference. I'm not an audiophile like many on here, but do like it sound pretty good, and for now, it sounds pretty good to me. And I have about 600 bucks into it.

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MLA
6 hours ago, SnubNose said:

2) Have a box built for the 12' Fosgate. I think ill leave that skill to a local audio guy unless i can simply build a cube plywood box with circular cutout in front

#1. Do this first, before tuning as the new, proper enclosure will for sure, effect the tuning. A proper enclosure will get you more for your investment, then swapping parts in a poor or no enclosure. 

6 hours ago, SnubNose said:

1) Adjust the amps for inboard, tower, and sub. Possible change which amp controls which speaker/sub for better results

#2 Short term, I would likely turn down the sub amp gain and bass-boost if it has it. Sounds like they are too high. 

Keep that Kicker collecting dust. No advantage to using that setup in your boat.

Yes, an EQ like the WS-420SQ and BT will work in your system, especially since you already have 3 zones. 

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SnubNose

How much should a custom box for my fosgate cost approximately? You don't think the kicker will sound better than fosgate in proper enclosure ? Why are guys buying the 420SQ then adding BT rather than getting the 420BT

3 hours ago, MLA said:

#1. Do this first, before tuning as the new, proper enclosure will for sure, effect the tuning. A proper enclosure will get you more for your investment, then swapping parts in a poor or no enclosure. 

#2 Short term, I would likely turn down the sub amp gain and bass-boost if it has it. Sounds like they are too high. 

Keep that Kicker collecting dust. No advantage to using that setup in your boat.

Yes, an EQ like the WS-420SQ and BT will work in your system, especially since you already have 3 zones. 

 

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Cmb396

Cost would be whatever your audio place charges by hour and materials, and I would guess you'd have a solid 6 hours in building a box.

The reason I went with the BTVC was reading several posts about volume issues and static noise with the 420bt. My dealer has installed a few, and said they all had a slight "squeal" in them.

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MLA
3 hours ago, SnubNose said:

How much should a custom box for my fosgate cost approximately? You don't think the kicker will sound better than fosgate in proper enclosure ? Why are guys buying the 420SQ then adding BT rather than getting the 420BT

 

The Kicker you linked to is a loaded enclosure for a car or truck and in no way suited for a boat, so I stopped looking right there. Now, if you took that same driver, not in its loaded enclosure and built a proper marine enclosure for it, ther may be some fair comparisons to make. The first comparison I would make is that the CRT is one of Kicker's slim line woofers. This can be an advantage for a car, truck or SUV, but not in a boat like an MXZ that not short on helm cavity. Power handling wise, the edge goes to the CRT. Sound quality, I think Id have t give the node to the Rockford 12. SO, even if you were willing to pull the driver and toss that enclosure, id still build the box for the OEM 12"  

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SnubNose

my local guy said $250 for custom box and hes done lots of marine stereos. mostly malibus and he is a certified wetsound dealer! Still he is trying to convince me to get some wetsounds and that even if you amp up the stock it isnt even close :(

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shawndoggy

SNUB -- what's your goal?  Are you looking to get the system sounding good at moderate and a-little-louder-than-most-wives-and-kids-like, or are you looking to be the guy at the center of festivities at the sandbar tie up with the stripper pole and boat full of experts to demonstrate how it works?

If it's the former, the factory sub in a sealed box on a reasonably tuned amp can provide quite a bit of missing bottom end that your cabin speakers can't produce, and can keep doing it to the point that your cabin speakers start to break up.  If you are paying someone else to do ALL of the work, $250 is probably pretty reasonable.  If you were just having a sealed box built, I'd think that's a little on the high side, but if that's including removal of the old box and integration of the new one (i.e. drop the boat off/pick the boat up), it's a good deal.  And the factory sub will sound leaps and bounds better and will satisfy most guys to the point their spouses start telling them to knock it off and turn it down.

But if you are looking to win the battle at the sandbar this summer, then yeah, you aren't going to win any basshead battles on the factory sub, no matter how good the box.  If that's the goal then a significant sub and amp upgrade are in order.

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Truekaotik

$250 is cheap for a true marine enclosure properly built to specs period. If you have the skill set and ALL the tools. Product will still run $125-150 then labor. You DIY guys like to think labor is free....

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SnubNose
43 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

SNUB -- what's your goal?  Are you looking to get the system sounding good at moderate and a-little-louder-than-most-wives-and-kids-like, or are you looking to be the guy at the center of festivities at the sandbar tie up with the stripper pole and boat full of experts to demonstrate how it works?

If it's the former, the factory sub in a sealed box on a reasonably tuned amp can provide quite a bit of missing bottom end that your cabin speakers can't produce, and can keep doing it to the point that your cabin speakers start to break up.  If you are paying someone else to do ALL of the work, $250 is probably pretty reasonable.  If you were just having a sealed box built, I'd think that's a little on the high side, but if that's including removal of the old box and integration of the new one (i.e. drop the boat off/pick the boat up), it's a good deal.  And the factory sub will sound leaps and bounds better and will satisfy most guys to the point their spouses start telling them to knock it off and turn it down.

But if you are looking to win the battle at the sandbar this summer, then yeah, you aren't going to win any basshead battles on the factory sub, no matter how good the box.  If that's the goal then a significant sub and amp upgrade are in order.

Ha that made me laugh. No i am not trying to win the sand bar contest cause thats not a contest id ever want to win lol. there are guys at the lake with 50k systems just crazyness.

Will my in board speakers and towers sound significantly better after tweaking with amps? Or is an amp upgrade required to get those up to par with a sealed factory sub?

If so what amp would you recommend?

The $250 was for drop boat off sealed box installed and pick up, with tax of course. but i actually need to confirm he wont throw labor charges in there as well....

So far i am thinking $300 or so for sealed box installed, $300 for WS-420, and some tinkering of amps?

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MLA
9 hours ago, SnubNose said:

that even if you amp up the stock it isnt even close

Close to what? The XS-12 has 2x the power handling, so sure, that would make a significant difference, but only if you upgraded the amp wattage 2x also. At that point, your "cheap way to improve fosgate system". Without upgrading the amp, its nearly a wash in terms of output as both are the same size. If you are going to up the wattage to the in-boats, say 150W to the 8" and 100W to the 6.5, then yes, you might want to upgrade the sub setup. 

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shawndoggy
1 hour ago, Truekaotik said:

$250 is cheap for a true marine enclosure properly built to specs period. If you have the skill set and ALL the tools. Product will still run $125-150 then labor. You DIY guys like to think labor is free....

Are you talking resin coated MDF or birch?  I mean for a simple sealed mdf box I don't think you'd be in it for more than $60 in materials (whole sheet of 3/4" MDF is under $40; quart of resin is under $20; terminal cup is $5).  Even add another $20 for "shop supplies" (few ounces of glue, few ounces of silicone, scrap piece of speaker wire for inside the box, a little bit of polyfill) and you are still well under $125 in supplies.  And if you are set up to build this with tools and a dedicated shop I'd think you could crack out the box in about an hour?  

Totally agree that there is value in labor.  No doubt about that.  When I paid a shop to build a similar box, they charged me $140 for it.  Another $100 for the install (remove kick panel, knock factory box off kick panel, reinstall kick panel with real box) seems reasonable to me?

But yeah if you are building everything from 1" baltic birch ply then no doubt cost is higher.

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SnubNose
5 hours ago, MLA said:

Close to what? The XS-12 has 2x the power handling, so sure, that would make a significant difference, but only if you upgraded the amp wattage 2x also. At that point, your "cheap way to improve fosgate system". Without upgrading the amp, its nearly a wash in terms of output as both are the same size. If you are going to up the wattage to the in-boats, say 150W to the 8" and 100W to the 6.5, then yes, you might want to upgrade the sub setup. 

What amp would I run for inboards? And does a better amp significantly improve the tower speakers as well?

I agree tho the cheap way is to adjust amp, fix box for now... 

The EQ will just allow me to fade the sound correct? Or does that improve sound quality too?

Edited by SnubNose

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minnmarker

What model amps do you have now?

What model speakers?

Every manufacturer has a line of products just like a car company.  If all you know is that it's a Chevy, is it a Corvette or a 3500 HD pickup?

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MLA

Im guessing your in-boats are 3 pair of 8" and a single pair of 6.5 in the walkway? Wet Sounds Syn-DX6

An EQ like the WS-420 is way more than fade. Its gives you independent volume control of 3 zones, plus master volume. Its a line driver which improves signal quality to the amps. It also has two equalizers in one, so tuning to the tower speakers and in-boat speakers is also independent. 

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endostrat

I just finished upgrading my stock Fosgate system, and it is infinitely better.  The sub actually works.  I did two things:

1.  I installed a ZLD for zone control.

2.  Made a custom box for the subwoofer and made a world of difference.  The hardest part was getting the right size and dimensions.

Still working on getting it tuned, but overall not a "difficult" upgrade.  Just takes some time and a little patience to get it all how you want it to sound and look.

Is it still underpowered?  Sure, but I can live with that until I want to upgrade it all.

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SnubNose

Yeah im pretty sure this is right. I actually thought they were all 8 inch but ya a pair in the bow, a pair in the walk way, and two pair in the back of boat. 

What is the maximum i should pay for the enclosed sub, ws 420 ( or should i get a different eq), and the tuning of amps? My boat has 2 or 3 fosgate amps. its all stock.

 

On 5/5/2016 at 1:22 PM, MLA said:

Im guessing your in-boats are 3 pair of 8" and a single pair of 6.5 in the walkway? Wet Sounds Syn-DX6

An EQ like the WS-420 is way more than fade. Its gives you independent volume control of 3 zones, plus master volume. Its a line driver which improves signal quality to the amps. It also has two equalizers in one, so tuning to the tower speakers and in-boat speakers is also independent. 

 

On 5/5/2016 at 1:23 PM, endostrat said:

I just finished upgrading my stock Fosgate system, and it is infinitely better.  The sub actually works.  I did two things:

1.  I installed a ZLD for zone control.

2.  Made a custom box for the subwoofer and made a world of difference.  The hardest part was getting the right size and dimensions.

Still working on getting it tuned, but overall not a "difficult" upgrade.  Just takes some time and a little patience to get it all how you want it to sound and look.

Is it still underpowered?  Sure, but I can live with that until I want to upgrade it all.

Sweet this is pretty much exactly what i want to do. I am gonna have a guy build and install the box and WS-420...

Do you think the zone control or eq makes a big difference with a stock system? 

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MLA

Although most any system would benefit from a bump in pre-amp signal level, i think the biggest attribute is zone volume control. Being able to volume down the in-boats and crank the towers is worth weight in gold 

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endostrat
16 hours ago, SnubNose said:

Yeah im pretty sure this is right. I actually thought they were all 8 inch but ya a pair in the bow, a pair in the walk way, and two pair in the back of boat. 

What is the maximum i should pay for the enclosed sub, ws 420 ( or should i get a different eq), and the tuning of amps? My boat has 2 or 3 fosgate amps. its all stock.

 

 

Sweet this is pretty much exactly what i want to do. I am gonna have a guy build and install the box and WS-420...

Do you think the zone control or eq makes a big difference with a stock system? 

Makes s huge difference. Glad that I did it. 

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SnubNose

Do you guys think the burning smelling that i am getting is because of the way my amp is set up or does that have something to do with the way the sub is mounted? would the sealed box fix this? Its any time i have the Db on 30ish and the punch turned up even half way. 

Edited by SnubNose

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MLA

Yes. Excessive gain, improper cross over points and excessive bass boost can result in woofer coil damage. Also, the fact that the woofer is no in an enclosure, makes it easy for the cone to move further than its designed. This leads to a mechanical failure. 

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SnubNose
17 hours ago, MLA said:

Yes. Excessive gain, improper cross over points and excessive bass boost can result in woofer coil damage. Also, the fact that the woofer is no in an enclosure, makes it easy for the cone to move further than its designed. This leads to a mechanical failure. 

Do you think it is already damaged then if i have smelt the burning smell before? I replaced the first one under warranty and now this one is doing same thing. The first one under warranty went out completely tho this one still works but burn smell when turned up 

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SnubNose
On May 9, 2016 at 5:27 AM, MLA said:

Yes. Excessive gain, improper cross over points and excessive bass boost can result in woofer coil damage. Also, the fact that the woofer is no in an enclosure, makes it easy for the cone to move further than its designed. This leads to a mechanical failure. 

Do you think the new box will stop the burning smell and keep it from failure? 

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