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Hard Steering


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I finally got the boat out today after putting in a steering cable and other winter maint. stuff. I did the cable because the latter part of last season the steering started getting harder, I figured it to be the cable but im thinking not. As I was replacing it I noticed the rudder was very easy to move while the cable was off, so I think I can rule that out. The steering column seemed to be pretty free also with the cable off... beginning of the season last year the steering was very easy, now (with old and new cable) its just hard and takes a lot to turn the wheel.... ideas? i taped and pulled the new cable through as the old one came out so shouldnt be in a bind, first time its been touched sine i bought the boat

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Grasping for straws here but what is the water temp?  I noticed my steering was stiffer with lower temps...I presumed it was the grease I used since it got worse after I greased the rudder.  #2 grease seems to be "standard" but I am switching to #1 for the rudder, as I think it would be better for a rudder since it is a HUGE heat sink and will stay cold during use even in the heat of summer.

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Could also be slop/binding in the tilt unit.  That was a lot of the problem in my in-laws 04 LXI, the bearing in the front of the unit was all wore out which caused some binding as the steering wheel shaft would move up and down a bit.

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4 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Disconnect cable from rudder and see how it feels

Take rudder in your hand and see if there is any slop in the vertical plane

 

Didn't notice slop but I'll double check. The rudder was very easy to turn by hand. 

1 minute ago, oldjeep said:

Could also be slop/binding in the tilt unit.  That was a lot of the problem in my in-laws 04 LXI, the bearing in the front of the unit was all wore out which caused some binding as the steering wheel shaft would move up and down a bit.

There is a pin in the tilt unit that has wallered out the hole causing it to have slop in the steering. It turns free with no Cable. Would the bearing cause it to be stiff when you bolt the cable on? 

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Local mechanic said to pull the cable off the helm and Turn the rudder. He said of it's still stiff I likely got a bad cable. Ordered from bakes...? 

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19 minutes ago, triscadek said:

Didn't notice slop but I'll double check. The rudder was very easy to turn by hand. 

There is a pin in the tilt unit that has wallered out the hole causing it to have slop in the steering. It turns free with no Cable. Would the bearing cause it to be stiff when you bolt the cable on? 

Any slop in the tilt unit is going to cause binding when there is a load on it.

6 minutes ago, triscadek said:

Local mechanic said to pull the cable off the helm and Turn the rudder. He said of it's still stiff I likely got a bad cable. Ordered from bakes...? 

Good check as long as you check the rudder for slop first.  If the bushings are wallowed out in the rudder box then that will cause binding as well when there is load transferred from rudder end to cable end or vice versa.

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4 minutes ago, triscadek said:

http://s302.photobucket.com/user/SS3157/media/Boat/DDFEECAB-6DF2-4BD9-A554-7F6CF150BC68.mp4.html

 

here is in the storage unit right after the cable was put on. Still tight to turn before we hit the water. 

Jeeze you can hear the slop in the tilt unit (or helm) ;)  I'll bet that if you had someone looking at the rudder when you were moving the wheel in those short motions that it wasn't moving at all.  There shouldn't be a dead spot like that

 

 

Edited by oldjeep
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2 minutes ago, triscadek said:

No it's not. I can assure you. Is this likely the culprit of it being hard? 

Definitely part of the problem.  Do like your mechanic suggested and take the rack loose from the helm and try pushing the rudder to move cable.  When you take the rack loose then also inspect the gear on the helm that moves the rack.   Problem is that you could have many things contributing to the rough steering.  (Tilt, helm, cable, rudder box)

Edited by oldjeep
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Here are some pics of when I took the steering apart a week or so ago  the pin that goes through the shaft seems to be what is causing it  I think a tack weld would do the trick but not sure if bearings etc are bad as well  

How do I adjust or fix the rudder if it has slop? 

 

WARNING: I clicked on the links and like every other time I'd click it would send me to a survey or a NSFW image on another site, not photobucket. Then I'd hit it again and MY images would pop up. Not sure how my links got hacked...?

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn102/SS3157/Boat/49CCBBF9-5BCE-4279-B8E0-393FBA9A55CB.png

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn102/SS3157/Boat/B6B854EB-D47E-4CE0-9F80-065D38AC7407.jpg

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn102/SS3157/Boat/CBFA8A3D-AB82-4A5D-AAC2-8C38F1EEE9BE.jpg

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn102/SS3157/Boat/3B730030-05AF-4ABC-B4DF-B8452AA356A2.jpg

 

Edited by triscadek
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I don't know if there is any fixing a tilt unit once they are wearing out other than spending $120 or so and replacing it.

If the rudder has slop in the vertical plane then you either replace the rudder box or if it is in decent shape there is a kit you can buy with new bushings and seals.

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The tilt unit is a one and done I believe. The rudder box I'm looking for 0 up and down play on the rudder shaft? Common sense would tell me the forward to backward play (grabbing the rudder) is bad. 

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Okay, I got a chance to play with the boat... Rudder is solid and free, pivot arm is nice and free, unhooked cable at the helm and still couldn't turn from rudder end. Unhooked rudder and bolted helm back together and still tough. Pull the the cable out of the pivot arm. And it's still tough. I noticed shavings come from the cable after I undid the nut from the pivot arm. Once all that is off, it's bolted at the helm. Pushing cable only it goes hard then very free. It's a faulty cable. Another cable and tilt mechanism will be on the way. 

Edited by triscadek
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  • 1 month later...
formulaben

Any update on this?  I just did the same thing last week: new cable and greased the tilt mechanism.  An FYI: if you over-tighten either the tilt mechanism or the BIG bolts on the dash securing it, the tilt will bind!  I had to go back and loosen the Allen bolts slightly (they are held together with loc-nuts) and that definitely helped.  Tighten the big bolts first before you "adjust" the hex bolts on the tilt.  Wasn't sure what to put in the tilt mechanism, so I cleaned thoroughly and then packed with white lithium grease.  Working great so far but might have a new tilt mechanism in my future.

Edited by formulaben
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On 4/4/2016 at 11:08 AM, oldjeep said:

Up and down isn't really an issue you are looking for side to side movement in the vertical plane - shouldn't be any.

By "vertical plane," do you mean grabbing the rudder at the bottom and being able to shift it from port to starboard and back? Or grabbing it on the back end and being able to shift it bow to stern? 

I have slop in my steering wheel like @triscadek and my steering is stiff. I can shift my rudder from side to side and front to back with my hand. What's going to be the best systematic approach to get this fixed? Cable first? Bushings and seals first? What part is the rudder box? I was hoping to just replace the cable, but after reading this thread i think I might have bigger problems?

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4 minutes ago, Chatty21VLX said:

By "vertical plane," do you mean grabbing the rudder at the bottom and being able to shift it from port to starboard and back? Or grabbing it on the back end and being able to shift it bow to stern? 

I have slop in my steering wheel like @triscadek and my steering is stiff. I can shift my rudder from side to side and front to back with my hand. What's going to be the best systematic approach to get this fixed? Cable first? Bushings and seals first? What part is the rudder box? I was hoping to just replace the cable, but after reading this thread i think I might have bigger problems?

Any of those directions - the rudder is only supposed to "twist".

If it is moving side to side and front to back then the most likely problem is bushings, but depending how long it has been bad it could have wore out other parts.  Only thing to do is take it apart and inspect the rudder shaft, bushings and rudder box.

The stiff steering could just be the cable, but could also be the slop in the rudder.

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2 minutes ago, Chatty21VLX said:

By "vertical plane," do you mean grabbing the rudder at the bottom and being able to shift it from port to starboard and back? Or grabbing it on the back end and being able to shift it bow to stern? 

I have slop in my steering wheel like @triscadek and my steering is stiff. I can shift my rudder from side to side and front to back with my hand. What's going to be the best systematic approach to get this fixed? Cable first? Bushings and seals first? What part is the rudder box? I was hoping to just replace the cable, but after reading this thread i think I might have bigger problems?

Disconnect the cable from the rudder to isolate the problem.  I've finally got my steering dialed in after 2 years but I've learned that that's the first step in diagnosing steering issues.  

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