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Free Air or Enclosed Sub?


rolson22

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Hello, just got a new 22 vlx earlier this year. Came with the 4 rev 8's on the tower but no sub. Was debating on putting in either a free air or enclosed subwoofer. If there isn't a huge difference in sound than i would prefer a free air only to avoid the hassle of building an enclosure. Also wet sounds or JL any one had better luck with either or? And whats better 12 or is 10 enough, I have 2 JL tens in my truck and I have found they put out a very clean strong bass.

Thanks!

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I do not think the vlx has a solid helm wall that would allow for 100% front/rear isolation, so an infinite baffle woofer would be off the table. Other wise, same size, similar power =similar output. Sound quality wise can depend on personal taste, but if a small sealed or ported enclosure is doable, i'll take that over IB. 

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1 hour ago, rolson22 said:

Hello, just got a new 22 vlx earlier this year. Came with the 4 rev 8's on the tower but no sub. Was debating on putting in either a free air or enclosed subwoofer. If there isn't a huge difference in sound than i would prefer a free air only to avoid the hassle of building an enclosure. Also wet sounds or JL any one had better luck with either or? And whats better 12 or is 10 enough, I have 2 JL tens in my truck and I have found they put out a very clean strong bass.

Thanks!

22,

I like infinite baffle (free air) subs when it is the right driver for the right application.

The difference between an infinite baffle (IB) sub and a sub intended for a small sealed (acoustic/air suspension) enclosure is the size of the enclosure. All woofers require an enclosure or baffle. All woofers require front to rear acoustic isolation (an enclosure in some form).  

There are a number of inboards and I/O's that receive an infinite baffle subwoofer very well. They already have large, solid and fairly well sealed seating or helm consoles that function as an expansive enclosure for an infinite baffle type sub. But a contemporary Malibu isn't one of those IB-friendly boats. You would spend an inordinate amount of time trying to seal up and strengthen a helm console so that you could use an infinite baffle sub. A small sealed enclosure would actually be far easier and less expensive in this case.      

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I agree enclosed sub for much better quality of sound. I would go with on 12 inch in a small sealed or ported box and you will be fine. You can probably purchase a prefabbed box and then work the existing panel onto the box. 

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i had a sealed 12" my bow and it did not produce much bass. Just changed out the sub with a 10" in a ported box ,with the same RM and the 10" produces LOTS more sound . Used same amp and the sub was the same RM as the 12". 

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I have to say that when comparing infinite baffle to air-suspension to bass-reflex, much of the differences are the execution rather than the particular type of loading.

Most people have never heard a really well-executed IB woofer. Something that is very hard to do in most boats. And most of the IB systems I have witnessed used the wrong driver for the application. Getting the right execution in a BU would be the harder route.

Air-suspension (small sealed enclosure) is a tuned circuit. Too small or too large has SQ and power handling consequences.

Bass-reflex (tuned port) has many manifestations. It can be an SQ alignment that is intended to extend bass respond with a moderate increase in overall output or an SPL alignment that overly boosts a narrow bandwidth for a giant increase in peak output.   

If you want the best from your woofer, whether for air suspension or bass-reflex, I strongly recommend a custom enclosure by a qualified designer and builder rather than an off-the-shelf pre-fabbed enclosure.  

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12 minutes ago, 22mxz said:

i have a free air in my 2013 and its a joke.

If its the factory rockford sub setup, what you have is exactly what David was describing, a poorly or wrongly executed setup. The Rockford marine woofer is not an IB woofer, nor will the partial wall support one. So in reality, you dont have a free air in your 2013, but rather a decent woofer that the factory left off the enclosure. 

 

Sadly, this is the type of execution where many draw their conclusion about an infinite-baffle woofer. 

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5 minutes ago, MLA said:

If its the factory rockford sub setup, what you have is exactly what David was describing, a poorly or wrongly executed setup. The Rockford marine woofer is not an IB woofer, nor will the partial wall support one. So in reality, you dont have a free air in your 2013, but rather a decent woofer that the factory left off the enclosure. 

 

Sadly, this is the type of execution where many draw their conclusion about an infinite-baffle woofer. 

ya sorry i meant to say that the fact there is no box is the joke the sub itself I'm sure proberly utilized its great...

Edited by 22mxz
spelling
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24 minutes ago, 22mxz said:

ya sorry i meant to say that the fact there is no box is the joke the sub itself I'm sure proberly utilized its great...

Dont be sorry, you are not alone. The difference is night an day really when that woofer is in a proper sealed enclosure. Its a good sounding, good performing 12" woofer for its power class, just a little overpriced if buying retail. For that price, the wet sounds XS-12 has 2X the wattage handling. 

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"Free Air" can be very misleading because to some the term denotes 'no enclosure'. This would be false because there is no form of subwoofer that doesn't need and use an enclosure in one form or another....other that a few factory systems that just place a woofer on a panel....and that's totally wrong.

An "Infinite Baffle" is a full enclosure that happens to be exceptionally large. And it requires a specific woofer type to match this application.   

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Im definatly going to go to with sealed then, i wasnt to sure what i had for room behind there because I havnt picked up the boat yet but sounds like that wont be an issue. Probably going to go with either a jl 10 or 12, leaning towards the 10 for that that strong high bass that in my experiance the 10 produces better. Any one had better luck with either or?

Im definatly going to go to with sealed then, i wasnt to sure what i had for room behind there because I havnt picked up the boat yet but sounds like that wont be an issue. Probably going to go with either a jl 10 or 12, leaning towards the 10 for that that strong high bass that in my experiance the 10 produces better. Any one had better luck with either or?

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I'm not sure how much experience you have had with subwoofers in an open boat. I like a 12-inch if you are going with a sealed enclosure, while a 10-inch is great in a ported enclosure. Here's why I prefer the sealed 12-inch versus a sealed 10-inch.

It takes four times the power (meaning four times the excursion and four times the amplifier power) to produce one octave lower in deep bass at the identical output level. So in an open boat you need all the acoustic leverage you can get. In a car it's different and the total opposite. In a car when you get below a certain frequency, based on the cabin dimensions, you get a progressive boost in low frequency output as the frequency gets lower. You won't get that heaviness in an open boat.    

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11 hours ago, David said:

I'm not sure how much experience you have had with subwoofers in an open boat. I like a 12-inch if you are going with a sealed enclosure, while a 10-inch is great in a ported enclosure. Here's why I prefer the sealed 12-inch versus a sealed 10-inch.

It takes four times the power (meaning four times the excursion and four times the amplifier power) to produce one octave lower in deep bass at the identical output level. So in an open boat you need all the acoustic leverage you can get. In a car it's different and the total opposite. In a car when you get below a certain frequency, based on the cabin dimensions, you get a progressive boost in low frequency output as the frequency gets lower. You won't get that heaviness in an open boat.    

Have you seen the new jl IB 12 inch marine sub, i was looking into that but could i use that with a sealed box or no? 

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1 hour ago, rolson22 said:

Have you seen the new jl IB 12 inch marine sub, i was looking into that but could i use that with a sealed box or no? 

Yes, and the JL Audio IB 12-inch is very impressive by any standard. And you can use an infinite baffle woofer in a sealed box. However, the box ideally needs to be so large that it makes no sense. So this brings you back to a subwoofer that was intended for a much smaller sealed box.  

Kind of like a differential ratio on a car. You need to match the rpms with the task.

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So do you think i would be better off with a 12 in a box that is a bit to small, (because I don't  see myself getting 3 cubic feet under that helm easily, but I could be wrong) or a 10 inch thats requires 2 cubic feet that may be easier to get.

Does anyone know how much room you have on a 22 vlx for a box under there? I wont have the boat for a few weeks.

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A lower 'Q' 10-inch that is made for a small sealed box, will require a net internal displacement of 0.5 cu.ft. to 0.625 cu.ft. For the same in a 12-inch would be from 1.0 to 1.25 cu.ft.

So the total external displacement for a 12-inch sealed box might only be 1.5 cu.ft.

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1 hour ago, rolson22 said:

So do you think i would be better off with a 12 in a box that is a bit to small, (because I don't  see myself getting 3 cubic feet under that helm easily, but I could be wrong) or a 10 inch thats requires 2 cubic feet that may be easier to get.

Does anyone know how much room you have on a 22 vlx for a box under there? I wont have the boat for a few weeks.

I know you can get a 2 ft3 net under the helm. That should get you quite a large selection of 12" woofers that would do well in a ported enclosure and maybe even a larger number of 12" woofers that will work in a sealed, which would most likely require a smaller than 2 ft3 enclosure. 

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Yes, most 12-inch bass-reflex (ported) enclosures are around 2.75 cu.ft. external. And that size of enclosure will fit a majority of BUs. But the box will be a more complex build as it is no longer a simple cube.

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So lets just say i went with the new JL 12 sub, made a box sealed 1.5 ft3 give or take. What type of bass would that put out vs. trying to make a ported box for that same sub that is only 2ft3 or whatever i can fit. What is the difference in sound between ported and sealed? I have only heard sealed. Is either or better for my boat? I don't need a real low bass or anything but one that your gonna feel pretty good. Basically whatever works best ile go with. I like my subs in my truck tuned a bit higher trying to shoot for that.

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rolson22,

If you are still referring to the new JL Audio IB 12-inch woofer, let's remove that model as an option. Don't get me wrong, I am a big JL Audio fan. That IB woofer could be heaven in the right Crownline or Mastercraft. But it has no place in a BU. You are better off running a JL Audio W3 or W6 depending on the matching power.

Sealed versus Ported?

Sealed has a roll-off that starts higher and is more gradual. The gradual nature of the sealed roll-off is what makes it sound so natural. But in a boat it may lack the deep bass. Sealed, as in the right size of box, is a tuned circuit. Sealed is often tuned a bit more 'live' using a slightly smaller enclosure to place a very modest bump in the response.  

There are many manifestations of 'ported' ranging from higher output and peaky to much smoother with more deep bass extension. The later is more of the sound quality version so let's use that model. That model will delay the deep bass roll-off and provide a nice lower bass output advantage. When it does finally roll-off, it does so at a much faster rate. But this is below the threshold of what is normally heard. 

So there is a sound quality version of either. The sealed version is certainly using a smaller and less complex enclosure.  

 

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Okay i will probably go with that sub. Ile decide on ported or sealed later. And suggestions on an amp? Also what did you mean when you said BU? By the way thanks for all the feed back its a huge help! 

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14 minutes ago, rolson22 said:

Okay i will probably go with that sub. Ile decide on ported or sealed later. And suggestions on an amp? Also what did you mean when you said BU? By the way thanks for all the feed back its a huge help! 

BU = Malibu.

For a JL Audio 12W6 subwoofer the perfect amplifier is a JL Audio HD750/1.

For a JL Audio 12W3 subwoofer the perfect amplifier is a JL Audio XD600/1.

  

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Rolson22 if you go with the JLW6 they have an enclosure goby on their site with the dimensions recommended for that specific woofer.  I ended up building my own for about $50.

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