Time to replace...suggestins?

[csilcox]

disclaimer:I know nothing about install of audio equipment other than basics!  With that said I am looking for a pretty basic remove and replace...I currently have the 8 RF in boat and 2 sets of the Tower (which I replaced the speakers in cans with Hertz last year) and the 12 SUb.  I believe the amps were all Punch 400-2,500-2 and 400-4.  I also added the Wetsounds zone controller last year.  My issue is Amps seem to be acting up and also I have crackling  (I assume due to age) speakers in cabin.  Not all are bad but at least 3 and it is quite annoying. 

My thoughts are to replace 8 cabins with either Jl M650's or Wetsounds XS650'..Suggestions ?  I know it is a Coke vs. Pepsi or Chevy vs. Ford but I'M sure some of you have had both and can give you experienced opinion.

I think for time being I'm going to hold off on Tower speakers but will revisit that later.

Amps???  Not sure what would be best fit and easiest switch??

Finally Sub...I recall someone finding a prebuilt enclosure that was mounted through kick plate that I currently have?  Is that the easiest solution?  And for Sub itself?  JL WS or Exile??? 

Thanks for all replies and sifting through my rambling!

[wdr]

I have replaced all of my stock RF in boats due to UV damage and poor construction issues. The "crackling" you speak of sounds exactly like the issues I had with mine before I replaced them all, mostly speaker cone separation from the foam suspension pieces. Before you buy amps I would look to replace the speakers first. If you dont replace anything I would strongly suggest you get a new sub box built to RF spec's. A pre built box is going to be hard to find to fit that space. They may be out there, but I didn't see any anywhere. In our '10's the sub box (at least on mine) was 1/3 too small volume wise and was not sealed at all! It is built out of stapled together star board with a few screws to try and hold it all together. The worst part is the front panel is a structural part of the sub box and the front trim piece as well. The weight of the sub and the lack of proper support cause the back half of the box to sag, which in turn caused the box to separate. I had gaps anywhere from a 1/4 to 1/2 wide, no wonder it sounded like crap! I built a new box to spec and used the old starboard to build a base for it. A word of warning the deck is not level in that area so be prepared to do a lot of trial and error to get it to sit level. My sub box ended up having a 10 x 12 inch deep base, 15 1/2 tall and 12 deep left side, 23 wide x 12 deep on top a 3 1/2 drop x 12 deep on the right side and a 45 degree angle up from the base to close the right side. I beleive they call it a trapezoid. That got me the volume RF called for for the M12 sub we have. Sorry I don't have pictures, I will pull it and post them if you are really interested.

Edited February 23, 2016 by wdr

[MLA]

Quote

 My issue is Amps seem to be acting up and also I have crackling  (I assume due to age) speakers in cabin

I would want to know the root cause of any issues before replacing equipment for those reasons. Would be a bummer to power it up the issue still be there.

Quote

Amps???  Not sure what would be best fit and easiest switch?

The gotcha is the big square holes cut in the amp board under the amps. This can make swapping amps a challenge. If a new board is needed, then its really a moot point. other wise, you are shopping for amps based on their physical size not spec. Ive had excellent results from amps from Wet Sounds, Kicker, Arc Audio and JL.  

 

Quote

Finally Sub...I recall someone finding a prebuilt enclosure that was mounted through kick plate that I currently have?  Is that the easiest solution?  And for Sub itself?  JL WS or Exile??

For the marine application, I would choose a woofer that does NOT have a paper based cone. Sometimes they are listed as hybrid or cellulose. 

A pre-made enclosure may be a quick and easy solution, but you may not get an enclosure thats best suited for the woofer or the boat. A custom enclosure would certainly achieve both of those, but yes, does cost more. Also, some premade enclosures are not very sturdy and not made for a humid environment at all. 

[csilcox]

Thanks guys for responses!  Yes I'm sure most of cabin issue is UV damage because I can see it on a few and could really see it on tower speakers before I replaced.  I am torn on the JL vs Wetsounds for replacement....

WDR I would love to see a photo of your box but please don't go out of your way if you don't have one! 

Thanks again!

[wdr]

I have to undue 2 screws but not a problem. I will pull it tonight and take a few pics and post the dimensions as well. Tools included: a table saw, router, cordless drill/bits and a jig saw. Material used was: 3/4" x 24" x 48" piece of Birch plywood (Lowes) and the Star board remnants from the original sub box. 4x 3" deck screws to hold the star board base to the box, 2 3/4" deck screws to hold the box assembly together with Gorilla glue for assembly as well. Polyurethane to seal it and silicone for the interior (joint seal (insurance) and 2"x2" aluminum angle stock for the attaching brackets and I reused the SS screws from the original box to assemble the base and attach it to the mounts and deck. I got nearly the same color carpet for the front fascia from Home Depot and an old aluminum business sign from my warehouse was "repurposed" as the front fascia. I suppose this could of been built with hand tools, but it would of been a lot more work!

Edited February 23, 2016 by wdr

[wdr]

csilcox, I am going to have to apologize up front. I got into,the boat to pull the sub for the pictures I promised and it dawned on me that I did another upgrade in the same area. I moved my ballast Y valve up into the cubby below the throttle and I forgot all that that entailed to get the lines run and the cubby secured to the floor. Needless to say I was overcome by the thought of getting a "disassembly _ss whiping"! I do have pictures of the finished installed products. Sorry for crushing any hopes you had. Bottom line is I went to the RF sub box builder for our discontinued M2 dimensions which will show you a square box. When I measured the deck area for the sub, I figured I needed a base 1 3/4" high to clear the angle where the deck transitions to the hull and the "V" shape of the area available to mount it in. I built a card board box to the RF dimensions and literally took my jig saw and cut and taped the box together repeatedly until I had a shape to fit the space and still retain the volume specified by RF. I would be happy to talk details if you want to go the diy route. Shoot me a PM and I will get back to you. I will try to post some finished pictures if I can figure this new format out.

[wdr]

My pictures are too fat so I will have to post a link to it. I am actually busting my cherry for link posting, kind of sad in this day and age.  Here is the link to my boat house pictures and all of my other mods, I think. http://www.themalibucrew.com/index.php?/garage/vehicle/116-malibu-wakesetter-23-lsv/&show=mods&page=2

Edited February 24, 2016 by wdr

[csilcox]

WDR ...thanks a ton man! You didn't have to do all that and I truly appreciate effort!  I did however enjoy you photobucket album....I got a ton of ideas for things that bug me to no end...especially you windshield bumper!!!! I think I will just start with in boats and go from there!!! 

On a side note how the hell do you keep your bilge so clean? My god you could eat off off the floor?? I guess my lake is filthy compared to yours because I always have a scum line on fuel tank!

[Truekaotik]

On February 22, 2016 at 4:35 PM, csilcox said:

disclaimer:I know nothing about install of audio equipment other than basics!  With that said I am looking for a pretty basic remove and replace...I currently have the 8 RF in boat and 2 sets of the Tower (which I replaced the speakers in cans with Hertz last year) and the 12 SUb.  I believe the amps were all Punch 400-2,500-2 and 400-4.  I also added the Wetsounds zone controller last year.  My issue is Amps seem to be acting up and also I have crackling  (I assume due to age) speakers in cabin.  Not all are bad but at least 3 and it is quite annoying. 

My thoughts are to replace 8 cabins with either Jl M650's or Wetsounds XS650'..Suggestions ?  I know it is a Coke vs. Pepsi or Chevy vs. Ford but I'M sure some of you have had both and can give you experienced opinion.

I think for time being I'm going to hold off on Tower speakers but will revisit that later.

Amps???  Not sure what would be best fit and easiest switch??

Finally Sub...I recall someone finding a prebuilt enclosure that was mounted through kick plate that I currently have?  Is that the easiest solution?  And for Sub itself?  JL WS or Exile??? 

Thanks for all replies and sifting through my rambling!

For the speaker replacement I would not drop to 6.5" speakers in the 8" holes. The Rockford 8" cut outs are smaller than the WS or JL 8". The Kicker are very close to the Rockford. I've done several Wakesetters and this is what I've found out. 

For amplifiers, fitment would be the least of my worries, to replace the amp board size is as easy as a screw driver. But to keep it, Most of the Marine/non-marine class D amplifiers will replace the Rockfords as they have a small footprint as well. 

For the woofer they do make pre fab "marine" enclosures spec'd for specific woofers that will fit also. Easiest solution, yes but best? No.... The build quality just isn't as good as a true marine box builder could do. For the woofers its your choice, we have done MANY non-marine, cellulose or Hybrid woofers and havnt had one returned in 10 years... It's all about maintenance of your 100,000 boat

[wdr]

2 hours ago, csilcox said:

WDR ...thanks a ton man! You didn't have to do all that and I truly appreciate effort!  I did however enjoy you photobucket album....I got a ton of ideas for things that bug me to no end...especially you windshield bumper!!!! I think I will just start with in boats and go from there!!! 

On a side note how the hell do you keep your bilge so clean? My god you could eat off off the floor?? I guess my lake is filthy compared to yours because I always have a scum line on fuel tank!

Thanks for the compliments, but keeping it clean isn't easy. I boat on the Cumberland River and if I don't stay on top of keeping it clean it will constantly smell like a cat peed in it. Dish soap in the bilge about once a month with a little scrub brush action and I shop vac out both bilges and the deck on Sunday after I put her back into the garage. Also if I get a lot of water in the boat while we are out I use my Johnson reversible pump with an attachment I made to suck it dry so the scum doesn't build up as much.

[David]

I totally agree with this statement by MLA, quote: "For the marine application, I would choose a woofer that does NOT have a paper based cone. Sometimes they are listed as hybrid or cellulose." Here's why I agree.

A paper/pulp/cellulose cone is essentially pressed and treated paper....very similar to an MDF enclosure....and we know exactly what happens to an MDF enclosure in a boat. The term "hybrid" means a coating on the face of the cone or a separate plastic dust cap over the face of a paper cone. If not for the exterior coating or the plastic cap, the paper woofer would often be done in a single season. Keep in mind that the back side or interior side of the cone is raw/untreated/unprotected paper. That's of even more concern in a ported enclosure. But MDF enclosures breath and are never totally airtight. So there's still a concern with a sealed enclosure. Paper absorbs moisture. This changes the parameters. This weakens the joints to the surround and to the spider/voice coil. Every time the speaker cycles through wet/dry conditions it becomes even more vulnerable to moisture. Whether a paper woofer is still working or not after a number of seasons shouldn't be the determining factor. The fact is that is can still be working and it can still appear to be fine, but it performs differently. It sounds different.

Today there is absolutely no initial performance advantage to using a paper-based woofer versus the other available options, such as polypropylene for example. If it was lighter or sounded better or any of the other misleading reasons usually given, those advantages would be out the window once the plastic cap was added to the face of the paper cone. Why do some importers/builders use hybrid-paper cones? Because they were originally intended for automotive use and because those are the off-the-shelf Asian parts available to them without expensive tooling costs. It is a cost factor and marine applications were an afterthought.