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Surf Setup for 2005 VLX - 3 questions


95echelon

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I have searched until my eyes bleed, and I am ready for some forum member input!

I just acquired a 2005 VLX. It has the factory rear tanks and center tank. For reference the 2005 VLX had the same hull through 2009. I also bought a front hard tank which was optional that year. This will be 1250 pounds total stock ballast and all run off the dash.

Question 1

It looks like my options for surf ballast in the rear are:

What would you recommend for the rear? The piggyback seems so easy and cheap I almost thought of trying it and converting it over if I hated the fill time. However I am handy and have tools. I could plumb something in quickly, but wonder where to put the extra switches (all of my acc switched run tower lights now, but I could do without or move those if needed.

Question 2

The consensus seems to be that these boats like bow weight. Should I get a movable "noodle/duffel bag style" sack for the bow, or go for the big triangle sack? The only reason I worry about a triangle sack is my kids love riding up front. If I go with a regular tube is it safe for kids to sit in front of it, or could it roll around?

Is it ok to get a big sack to go in walkway? Or is that too far back?

Question 3

I plan to get a wake shaping system to avoid listing, but should I plan on getting a bag or two that will fit in the lockers etc? Something to move around and fill on the fly?

The boat came with a 2419 prop so I am hoping to be able to handle this amount of weight. What are the thoughts from the crew on the ideas above?

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Ive tried a number of different things on my boat and heres where Im at. They love weight up front for WB but surfing you need a TON of weight in the back and sides. Ive tried stock+440 in the back corner 300 along side and 400 up front and it wasnt near enough weight. If I roll another 440 on top of the seats with same setup it starts to look decent. If I did it over again Id figure out how to put 750 in the back 300 under seats and another 440 on top of seats when I dont have some people.

The 05 doesnt have a ton of freeboard, so when surfing it gets a little sketchy listed as bad as it needs to. This summer I plan to run my standard wakeboard setup(Full MLS, 440s and 1000 Triangle) with a mission surf system. If thats still not doing it, Ill swap out the 440s for 750s.

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As for plumbing stuff in. I went with 3 extra reversibles plumbed through the holes already in the boat. I figure it probably cost me $1000 to add these pumps, but its worth it to me. A few good threads on here of how to do that.

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I have about 500 lbs up front, rear and center stock ballast full, and about 500 - 750lbs on each side loaded equally in the locker of aftermarket ballast. I then built a crappy makeshift surfgate out of a 2x12 and a couple turnbuckles. It looks ugly, but my pocket is up to 15 feet back. Wedge all the way down and 2 clicks up.

Edited by theGrant
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As for plumbing stuff in. I went with 3 extra reversibles plumbed through the holes already in the boat. I figure it probably cost me $1000 to add these pumps, but its worth it to me. A few good threads on here of how to do that.

Did you do quick connectors or anything for the front and interior bags? Or just a hose that you can move around?

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We have an 05 VLX as well and run the following setup:

  • Front, middle, and rear surfside hardtank full.
  • 800# piggyback from wakemakers in surfside locker
  • 650# bow fatsack on top of seats
  • wedge down

This is basically the setup you have posted above from the Wakemakers website which I think would be a really good starting point for you. Boat definitely needs bow weight to get the wave off the swim platform. As for the piggyback system from wakemakers it fills pretty quick but can be slow to drain as the fatsack drains by gravity into the hard tank below before being pumped out.

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I have all four stock tanks full plus two or three people sitting in the front matched with whatever bags I had (leftover from my other direct drive) and wicked wake gate and it was awesome. This year I'm gonna run twin 1100's in the rear locker.

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Did you do quick connectors or anything for the front and interior bags? Or just a hose that you can move around?

I have a quick disconnect for the front bag but the back ones I screwed in. I found that screwing them in allows the pump to suck them completely flat.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/12/2016 at 5:14 PM, pdneuman said:

We have an 05 VLX as well and run the following setup:

  • Front, middle, and rear surfside hardtank full.
  • 800# piggyback from wakemakers in surfside locker
  • 650# bow fatsack on top of seats
  • wedge down

This is basically the setup you have posted above from the Wakemakers website which I think would be a really good starting point for you. Boat definitely needs bow weight to get the wave off the swim platform. As for the piggyback system from wakemakers it fills pretty quick but can be slow to drain as the fatsack drains by gravity into the hard tank below before being pumped out.

For a few bucks more, I can get the bakes system with extra drain pumps. Worth it? I can also buy the wakemakers bags and use the bakes plumbing with dedicated drains (something that Spencer at wakemakers had sort of reccomended). Spencer said that bakes plumbing setup was faster and a bit more elegant, but required some drilling. But the Wakemakers LBS bags would fit better than the 1100lb fly high bags.

https://www.bakesonline.com/searchresult.aspx?CategoryID=1068

Thoughts?

On 2/13/2016 at 8:49 PM, slipperinn said:

I have all four stock tanks full plus two or three people sitting in the front matched with whatever bags I had (leftover from my other direct drive) and wicked wake gate and it was awesome. This year I'm gonna run twin 1100's in the rear locker.

Man, I have both goofy and regular riders (I am goofy) I hate the straps on the wicked wake, but the mission is 150 more for a pair of surf things. However no straps involved and they float!

 

http://www.missionboatgear.com/products/surfside-malibu-vlx

 

Edited by 95echelon
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And you're "nickle and diming" your way to an M235 :whistle:

There is no limit to the stuff you can add to get a bit better wake.  For my little group, some of us had a great time surfing with just one 750 on the surf side and the wedge down, but others (heavier) could not get enough push to let go of the rope.  Combination of not enough wave and not enough skill.  Then we got a bow bag, better, then another locker bag, better - and we were getting better, then reversible pumps, convenient, then the detachable surf gate, much better, then the permanent automatic surf gates, which will be very very convenient.  We have regular and goofy riders too - and the time spent filling and draining bags for port or starboard list was the low point of the whole experience.  If you're going to be switching sides you probably don't want a slow draining piggyback system, unless you don't have to list because you have a surf gate(s).

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Thanks for all the help everyone!

So I am going to get the DIY detachable surf gate. probably do it with lenco's to get martinarchers control box next season. I spent most of my fun money on a new boat lift after finding out that my old one was only rated for 2500 pounds (glad I caught that). 

For now I cheaped out (see pic). If the family likes surfing then reversibles are an easy add. I have a full set of tools at the lake to do the work on the lift. Got the piggybacks with the custom fit bags, and a moveable sack with pump.

I have also been working out and losing weight to get ready for wakeboarding again. If I go from 215 to 195 I wont need as much weight I hope :) (ballast weight i mean) 

d182c2a34172d7ed1bfc58f6f2a27c57.png

Edited by 95echelon
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45 minutes ago, 95echelon said:

 

So I am going to get the DIY detachable surf gate.

 

What's the plan there?  I think I'm building my own this year, simple plywood, maybe epoxied, maybe HDPE.  There's about a zillion pics measurements to go from on this site.

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3 minutes ago, Michigan boarder said:

What's the plan there?  I think I'm building my own this year, simple plywood, maybe epoxied, maybe HDPE.  There's about a zillion pics measurements to go from on this site.

There is a guy on CL selling a big sheet of starboard for 150. Want to go halfsies? Then some lenco's with cheap switches for year one. Stainless steel hinges are expensive too, but I think for under 500 I could have motorized (but manual) gates. I am happy to work on it with you preseason. I can drag out the VLX on a warm day.

http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/bpo/5445670624.html

My big question is if I can do this with my fiberglass platform or if I should build a nice new teak platform.

Edited by 95echelon
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9 minutes ago, 95echelon said:
9 minutes ago, 95echelon said:

There is a guy on CL selling a big sheet of starboard for 150. Want to go halfsies? Then some lenco's with cheap switches for year one. Stainless steel hinges are expensive too, but I think for under 500 I could have motorized (but manual) gates. I am happy to work on it with you preseason. I can drag out the VLX on a warm day.

http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/bpo/5445670624.html

My big question is if I can do this with my fiberglass platform or if I should build a nice new teak platform.

There is a guy on CL selling a big sheet of starboard for 150. Want to go halfsies? Then some lenco's with cheap switches for year one. Stainless steel hinges are expensive too, but I think for under 500 I could have motorized (but manual) gates. I am happy to work on it with you preseason. I can drag out the VLX on a warm day.

 

http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/bpo/5445670624.html

Thanks, but first I'm just going to experiment with wood & glass, so I can paint it to match.  I want to give that a chance first.  That is a good deal though!

I have this table that we can experiment with, should match up to your boat very close.  I am currently using the NDawg's teak deck from his older '06 Vride.  My boys bailed on using it, it's just sitting in the basement now.

msg-8942-0-83015600-1343398792_thumb.jpg

 

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3 minutes ago, Michigan boarder said:

Thanks, but first I'm just going to experiment with wood & glass, so I can paint it to match.  I want to give that a chance first.  That is a good deal though!

I have this table that we can experiment with, should match up to your boat very close.  I am currently using the NDawg's teak deck from his older '06 Vride.  My boys bailed on using it, it's just sitting in the basement now.

msg-8942-0-83015600-1343398792_thumb.jpg

 

Wood and glass sounds fun. What are you thinking for dimensions? You going to gelcoat it you think?

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1 minute ago, 95echelon said:

Wood and glass sounds fun. What are you thinking for dimensions? You going to gelcoat it you think?

I think so.  Haven't got very far yet, been on the back of my mind.  But you are moving it quickly to the forefront!

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  • 3 months later...

Time to report in: I tried all sorts of setups this weekend and was able to surf the best with "less" weight. I tried wedge up and down without too much difference. And i have a theory on why:

Setup 1:

  1. All MLS full (no bow tank yet), plus 400 on the bow. 2 adults and assorted kids
  2. Wave was washy (boat wasnt listed at all) but not bad
  3. RESULT: Very tiny but surfable sweet spot

Setup 2:

  1. 900 pounds each rear locker, 400 on the bow, full MLS (center and both rears)
  2. RESULT: Giant wave, but totally washed out, could only ride right near the platform.

My current goals are:

  1. More bow weight (plumb in my 350 pound hard tank)
  2. Home built wake shaper
  3. Another moveable bag to toss behind the driver (I ride goofy)

So in summary I think this boat needs a lot more bow weight to shine, and I dont have enough bags around to properly list it (or enough friends to toss in the boat since my lake is hours from home). I have a suction handle waiting around for a job to do, so I will try to make a homemade wake shaper. More to come this weekend.

I tried a Large broadcast and a phase 5 prop. Both did ok, I liked the prop, but for my 200 pound weight the broadcast is easier. Maybe a danielo carbon coming soon after I dial it all in.

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47 minutes ago, 95echelon said:

Time to report in: I tried all sorts of setups this weekend and was able to surf the best with "less" weight. I tried wedge up and down without too much difference. And i have a theory on why:

Setup 1:

  1. All MLS full (no bow tank yet), plus 400 on the bow. 2 adults and assorted kids
  2. Wave was washy (boat wasnt listed at all) but not bad
  3. RESULT: Very tiny but surfable sweet spot

Setup 2:

  1. 900 pounds each rear locker, 400 on the bow, full MLS (center and both rears)
  2. RESULT: Giant wave, but totally washed out, could only ride right near the platform.

My current goals are:

  1. More bow weight (plumb in my 350 pound hard tank)
  2. Home built wake shaper
  3. Another moveable bag to toss behind the driver (I ride goofy)

So in summary I think this boat needs a lot more bow weight to shine, and I dont have enough bags around to properly list it (or enough friends to toss in the boat since my lake is hours from home). I have a suction handle waiting around for a job to do, so I will try to make a homemade wake shaper. More to come this weekend.

I tried a Large broadcast and a phase 5 prop. Both did ok, I liked the prop, but for my 200 pound weight the broadcast is easier. Maybe a danielo carbon coming soon after I dial it all in.

You need more bow weight... nest outing sit your moveable ballast (people) in front and see what the results are... In my LSV I run #1100 up front,,, In my Sunsetter, I ran #900 up front... All Malibu's like bow weight and need it... 400 is not enough... your pocket is short due not enough bow weight.. more weight in front = shorter longer wave, less weight in front = steeper shorter wave... 

Also, what speed are you running at, and what speed can you get up to?

When filling your lockers, (did not realize you were not listing yet have no surf device), try all factory full, and surfside piggy back full, leave non surfside piggy back empty, and then try leaving the non surfside completely empty... 

Here are my listed setups before I got surf devices

Sunsetter (direct drive)

1100 rear,

800 surfside next to engine

400 center tank

900 front

LSV

Factory tanks full (also no factory tank in front)

950 rear surfside locker

800 floor surfside

1100 surf side mid cabin (on seat)

1100 front

Edited by kerpluxal
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12 minutes ago, kerpluxal said:

You need more bow weight... nest outing sit your moveable ballast (people) in front and see what the results are... In my LSV I run #1100 up front,,, In my Sunsetter, I ran #900 up front... All Malibu's like bow weight and need it... 400 is not enough... your pocket is short due not enough bow weight.. more weight in front = shorter longer wave, less weight in front = steeper shorter wave... 

Also, what speed are you running at, and what speed can you get up to?

I am running at a calibrated 9.8-11.5 (tried them all in between). I forgot the GPS phone though so this is a paddlewheel reading (could be a major problem if i was even 2MPH off). I have the 2419 prop with the Monsoon 340 so I can plane and wakeboard with all of this weight.

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43 minutes ago, 95echelon said:

I am running at a calibrated 9.8-11.5 (tried them all in between). I forgot the GPS phone though so this is a paddlewheel reading (could be a major problem if i was even 2MPH off). I have the 2419 prop with the Monsoon 340 so I can plane and wakeboard with all of this weight.

That is good news :).... Your issue is just that you need to list with ballast until you get a surf device... remove weight out of your rear non surf side locker...

Just an FYI for when you get a surf device:

Sunsetter (poorman surfgate)

1000 rear

800 each side

400 center

900 front

th_VID_20150411_140947847_zpsurabm7s9.jp

 

LSV (gosurfassist tabs)

All factory full (again no factory ballast in front)

950 rear lockers

1200 mid cabin floor

1100 front

IMG_20160124_153006555_zpswlh65irf.jpg

Edited by kerpluxal
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My 99 vlx I run 750s in rear lockers full, mls full and about 4-500 in bow. Using a dual suction cup gate and wave is awesome 

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43 minutes ago, jbower said:

My 99 vlx I run 750s in rear lockers full, mls full and about 4-500 in bow. Using a dual suction cup gate and wave is awesome 

Great!

I have a suction cup here from amazon waiting for a friday project...

 

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Just now, 95echelon said:

Great!

I have a suction cup here from amazon waiting for a friday project...

 

I was a little worried to try it because I have a chine on the bottom like your echelon but for 10$ I risked it and couldn't be happier. 

Never mind just seen you have an 05vlx not sure it has the chine or not but either way it'll work

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51 minutes ago, kerpluxal said:

 

Sunsetter (poorman surfgate)

1000 rear

800 each side

400 center

900 front

th_VID_20150411_140947847_zpsurabm7s9.jp

 

 

Do your sunsetter numbers include the MLS? My setup will likely end up being:

2200 rear (900 wakemakers plus 400 MLS)

900 Center (500 MLS, 400 Current Bow Sac moved to walkway)

1350 Front (350 MLS, 1000 flyhigh triangle (to be bought))

Making a suction surfgate this friday. Maybe martinarcher it in the fall.

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