Jump to content

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew!

As a guest, you are welcome to poke around and view the majority of the content that we have to offer, but in order to post, search, contact members, and get full use out of the website you will need to Register for an Account. It's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the TheMalibuCrew Family today!

Sign in to follow this  
minnmarker

Amp Ideas Please! - 4 channel + sub + 2 channel on budget

Recommended Posts

minnmarker

What I have is:

4 channel A/B amp (60W RMS x 4) for in-boat speakers that runs off the front RCA output from the head unit. Front/rear outputs are set at different gains right now and want to keep that ability.

Sub A/B amp (bridged 150W RMS x 2 for total 300W RMS) run off the head unit sub output.

I want to add:

2 channels for "outside speakers" that will be put out on the back hatches only when we're parked and swimming around the boat. They will run off the rear RCA output from the head unit so I can use the fader to adjust inside vs outside volume. I do not want tower speakers for several reasons.

Problem is - there is room for only two amps so just adding a third amp is not an option.

What seems to be a good solution is replace the 4 channel amp with a 6 channel amp for the 4 in-boat and sub. I could then use the current sub amp for the outside speakers @ 150W RMS x 2 and run them off the rear head unit outputs.

I found this Pyle amp:

http://www.amazon.com/PLMRA620-Channel-Waterproof-Bridgeable-Amplifier/dp/B000N5T0TE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453221163&sr=8-1&keywords=PLMRA620

Channels 1-4 @ 100W RMS x 4 to the in-boat speakers and bridge 5-6 @ 500W x 1 for the sub.

The current 4 channel amp would then go to the pontoon boat, which was going to get a new amp anyway.

Does anyone have experience with Pyle amps?

Are there any 8 channel amps out there that would handle my balancing requirements? The 8 channel Pyle will not do that.

We're not big on volume or heavy bass. Just want nice sound in the boat and while floating next to it.

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
MLA
Channels 1-4 @ 100W RMS x 4 to the in-boat speakers and bridge 5-6 @ 500W x 1 for the sub.

Cut these numbers in half and you would likely be closer to a realistic RMS.

JL makes an 8 chnl that would likely do what you need, but I like your idea of re-purposing the 2 chnl for the new speakers and replacing the 4 chnl with a 6 chnl (or 5 chnl)

Share this post


Link to post
WINEGRAPEGROWER

if room is an issue, use class D amps. Class D amps are more efficient and are smaller and use less power. And sound better.

The amplifier makes a huge difference in sound quality. ie you get what you pay for. Pyle amps are at the bottom or even below the bottom of the barrel.

Share this post


Link to post
minnmarker

Winegrapegrower, I would consider a Class D amp for the sub if I really liked a lot of bass for long periods of time - but I don't. As for the other speakers, Class D's that have reasonable distortion at higher frequencies are very expensive. I've never seen specs on the JLs, Wetsounds, etc. Class D's have built in limitations. Also, since we rarely hang out more than a couple hours and I have a Group 31 deep cycle dedicated to the stereo I don't need the efficiency.

What I'm wondering is how the Pyle will compare to the more expensive stuff as far as linear response, distortion, and reliability. I'm not looking for perfect sound reproduction. I am looking for reasonably good sound - and reliability. The current 4 channel is a JBL in the same price range as the Pyles and it meets my sound quality needs.

MLA, do you know if JBL, and others, also overstate their RMS output numbers?

Share this post


Link to post
MLA
Winegrapegrower, I would consider a Class D amp for the sub if I really liked a lot of bass for long periods of time - but I don't. As for the other speakers, Class D's that have reasonable distortion at higher frequencies are very expensive.

Im not going to judge your threshold of what is or isnt expensive, but when looking at a comparable marine Class A/B and marine Class-D, there is very little price difference. For example, the last Kicker ZXM700.5 that I sold, retailed for $500. The current Class-D marine KXM800.5, retails for $550. Further, you will not find too many reputable amp manufactures that are still producing class-A/B. I switched over 100% about 3 years ago.

As noted, Pyle is at the bottom of the price point amps along with BOSS. Its very common with the price point lines to use an unrealistic peak output in their advertising. Some state their RMS but bury it, some dont and you have to use to deductive reasoning. Like when an amp claims to do 150X4 @ 4 and only has a single 25A fuse int he chassis. We know that aint happening.

Share this post


Link to post
David

Yes, Pyle is like Boss. They rarely if ever meet their power specs regardless of the qualifiers.

Yes, cheap Class D have limitations. Cheap AB amplifiers do also. How do you even know it's Class AB? Often these cheap amplifiers are actually Class B with zero bias. Can they get away with false claims? Sure. Who enforces power specs? No one. The better brands can't afford to tarnish their reputation so they are honest and often on the conservative side. The cheap brands don't have a reputation to defend and prey on the budget buyers who want to believe.

Every marine audio brand that matters went to Class D years ago.

Class D is about more than just efficiency. It's about power also. A group of amplifiers that require 60% more supply current to generate the same output wattage, will in turn pull down the supply and thus the voltage sags. As the voltage sags, the amplifiers generate far less power. And audio components fed by weak voltage sound thin. You can walk up on a system running with a supply below 12 volts and tell instantly.

You are getting some good advice here from others. Have an open mind.

Share this post


Link to post
WINEGRAPEGROWER

Winegrapegrower, I would consider a Class D amp for the sub if I really liked a lot of bass for long periods of time - but I don't. As for the other speakers, Class D's that have reasonable distortion at higher frequencies are very expensive. I've never seen specs on the JLs, Wetsounds, etc. Class D's have built in limitations. Also, since we rarely hang out more than a couple hours and I have a Group 31 deep cycle dedicated to the stereo I don't need the efficiency.

What I'm wondering is how the Pyle will compare to the more expensive stuff as far as linear response, distortion, and reliability. I'm not looking for perfect sound reproduction. I am looking for reasonably good sound - and reliability. The current 4 channel is a JBL in the same price range as the Pyles and it meets my sound quality needs.

MLA, do you know if JBL, and others, also overstate their RMS output numbers?

sounds like you have your mind made up. Enjoy the pyle amp.

amps hardly ever break...so reliabilty is typically not an issue or consideration when selecting an amp. unless one buys the cheaper brands.

and not sure I understand your comment about class D amp and a lot of bass. if too much base, turn it down. all amps are tunable to your tastes and or preferences.

and your battery size was not mentioned in your initial post....your limitiation(s) / concerns as far as room was. class d amps are about 1/2 the size of a/b amps.

Share this post


Link to post
minnmarker

I knew this was going to happen! You guys are nudging me up into higher quality and more $$.

The all Class D Kicker KXM800.5 is $525, as MLA noted. I found a Rockford M6005 for $300 that has Class D for the sub channel and A/B for the other 4.

Both are CEA 2006 rated (just learned about that) at 14.4 volts. When do we see 14.4 volts?

Both have identical RMS outputs of 4 x 50W and 1 x 200W (all into 4 ohms).

In regard to layout, the control location on the M6005 would be more accessible in my mounting position.

Is the kicker worth the extra $200?

Share this post


Link to post
minnmarker

sounds like you have your mind made up. Enjoy the pyle amp.

amps hardly ever break...so reliabilty is typically not an issue or consideration when selecting an amp. unless one buys the cheaper brands.

and not sure I understand your comment about class D amp and a lot of bass. if too much base, turn it down. all amps are tunable to your tastes and or preferences.

and your battery size was not mentioned in your initial post....your limitiation(s) / concerns as far as room was. class d amps are about 1/2 the size of a/b amps.

Still learning...

Now looking at the 2 combinations in the last post above or, looking at the smaller size as you suggested, going with a 4 channel Class D (RF R400-4D) and a Mono Class D (RF R500X1D).

Are the Rockford Class D amps fairly close in performance to the JL or Wetsound products or should I stay away and not make the jump to Class D unless I want to spend big?

Share this post


Link to post
MLA

I knew this was going to happen! You guys are nudging me up into higher quality and more $$.

The all Class D Kicker KXM800.5 is $525, as MLA noted. I found a Rockford M6005 for $300 that has Class D for the sub channel and A/B for the other 4.

Both are CEA 2006 rated (just learned about that) at 14.4 volts. When do we see 14.4 volts?

Both have identical RMS outputs of 4 x 50W and 1 x 200W (all into 4 ohms).

In regard to layout, the control location on the M6005 would be more accessible in my mounting position.

Is the kicker worth the extra $200?

Ill stick with what what the manufacturer retail prices are in order to keep the comparison more fair. Its hard to use the pricing that can be found from one internet seller to another. The M600.5 is listed at $499, so only $100 less.

The cable connections on both are nearly identical as all are along one side of the amp on both. You likely wont ever see 14.5, but thats the standard that is used. Here is what that extra $50 gets you:

Class-D efficiency across the whole amp. About 90%.

Sealed setting and controls door

100 x 4 @ 2 ohm compared to the 75 x 4 @ 2 from the M600.5, so more wattage to the full range speakers when running 2 pair per chnl

400 x 1 @ 2 ohm compared to 300 x 1 @ 2 on the sub chnl

Low-Pass, Hi-Pass, Full-Pass, Band-Pass on chnls 3/4 v's only full-pass and hi-pass on the M600.5

Low-pass, Hi-Pass, and Full-Pass on chnls 1/2 v's Hipass and low-pass on the M600.5

Adjustable Subsonic filter on the sub chnl, fixed setting on m600.5

ABYC compliant terminals, meaning the setscrew doesnt push directly on the wire but rather a tab is. Greater surface are contact between the wire and terminal, stays tighter and less chance of pinched/cut strands.

Are the Rockford Class D amps fairly close in performance to the JL or Wetsound products or should I stay away and not make the jump to Class D unless I want to spend big?

No

No

yes but you have to buy a top shelf amp to get a good quality amp

No, Rockford amps are not on the level of a Wet Sounds or JL, but they are WAY above a pyle and boss.

Dont stay away, they are solid budget friendly amp that will serve well

Yes, make the jump to all class-D amp as the need arises. If you need to buy an amp, go class-D, but I wouldnt dump a good working class-A/B unless it cant be re-purposed into the new plan. But dont buy any more class-A/B amp as they are too many good class-D options out there.

Edited by MLA

Share this post


Link to post
minnmarker

Thanks everyone for all the great advice. I'm going to go all Class D with 7 total channels (6 x 100W and 1 x 300W bridged) on two Rockford R600-4D amps. I know they're not as good as the high end stuff but they're about 1/3 the cost and I can separate or combine channels on different inputs as needed.

The Class A/B 4 channel and 2 channel will go to the pontoon boat.

Share this post


Link to post
David

Sounds like a plan.

Just an FYI, if the pontoon has a small outboard motor, then it's possible that it features a small stator capable of very limited current output.

If using a small outboard, it might be worth getting that spec. And, keep a close eye on the voltage levels. Try and avoid any depletion below 12.0 volts to make your batteries last longer. You'll definitely want to supplement the charging with a shore charger.

Share this post


Link to post
minnmarker

Sounds like a plan.

Just an FYI, if the pontoon has a small outboard motor, then it's possible that it features a small stator capable of very limited current output.

If using a small outboard, it might be worth getting that spec. And, keep a close eye on the voltage levels. Try and avoid any depletion below 12.0 volts to make your batteries last longer. You'll definitely want to supplement the charging with a shore charger.

No worries. It's a 29' I/O with a 4.3 Merc. Will add a deep cycle with isolaror and shore charger. Edited by minnmarker

Share this post


Link to post
Truekaotik

You will like the Rockford amplifiers from all your posts. Seems like you just want a good quality amplifier and the build is solid, the SQ is on par, easy to tune as the POTs are smooth, power rating for the speakers you are looking for. They run their specs, have the marine options available and hold their own with Kicker...

Share this post


Link to post
Steinbada

Does anyone have any experience with MB Quart? I was looking at the na540.6 to run 6 house speakers. Not sure the JL at $500 is within my price range but if the MB is junk I will wait and keep saving. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Share this post


Link to post
11LSV15

If you PM me I would be happy to help you. I am a dealer for several high end lines and can help you out and get you great pricing.

Share this post


Link to post
minnmarker

Now I have the 2 Rockford Class D amps putting out 100W rms per channel (times 6) into my Sony Explode speakers and planned "surfing speakers" plus 300W rms (bridged) into the sub .  Needless to say, the Sonys are not handling it well beyond a point.

Any suggestions on cabin speakers that will take advantage of the new amps but not break the bank?  I found these on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001E5PN2A?colid=1T85B8ZGK4FW5&coliid=I386UUPORZ2KUN&psc=1&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl

Share this post


Link to post
MLA

Assuming the tuning is correct, im sure those will do fine, along with either the wet sounds 65i or 650 series, Kicker KM654, JL M or MX 650 series, rockford m262. 

Edited by MLA

Share this post


Link to post
minnmarker
2 hours ago, MLA said:

Assuming the tuning is correct, im sure those will do fine, along with either the wet sounds 65i or 650 series, Kicker KM654, JL M or MX 650 series, rockford m262. 

Yes, "assuming the tuning." I get you.  Given that I'm not sure how the young adults will be managing the volume how important is the max power handling capacity of the speakers.  The 4 models you list have max power ratings from 65W rms to 100W rms.  Amps are Rockford D class rated at 100W rms (at 14V input though).  I can set the amp gains below distortion level but should I be concerned with the coils burning up with sustained use at high volume?  Will there be a durability advantage for 100W speakers vs 65W speakers?

Share this post


Link to post
skyskier

I had those Polks in my last boat. They sound great at that price point. I powered them with Rockford, then JL. There was a clear difference but I don't think most listeners would care about or appreciate the difference.

Share this post


Link to post
MLA
Quote

 The 4 models you list have max power ratings from 65W rms to 100W rms.

RMS is not max. Those are rms wattage recommendations, not max, or what the industry typically uses, peak wattage. To go further, that wattage @ 14.5 is unrealistic and can drop as much as 25% with the battery at rest @ 12.5 (engine off).  

Share this post


Link to post
minnmarker
28 minutes ago, MLA said:

RMS is not max. Those are rms wattage recommendations, not max, or what the industry typically uses, peak wattage. To go further, that wattage @ 14.5 is unrealistic and can drop as much as 25% with the battery at rest @ 12.5 (engine off).  

Yep, got that.  Sorry if the question was unclear.  The speakers all have published maximum continuous power handling stated in RMS Watts.  The question is: Forgetting about peak wattage, might there be a problem with sustained (or even temporary) driving of a speaker close to it's rated continuous power handling rating?  Example - driving speakers rated at 75W RMS with an amp rated 100W RMS.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...