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NCSurfing

Battery wiring question

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NCSurfing

For my install, I opted to detach the amp board from the factory batteries (leaving as is otherwise from dual switch) and run the amp board direct to my XP series AGM battery (class 31). After setting it up, I don't like that it is powered at all times (and hate the spark when I connect it) and would like the opportunity to shut off power to the amp board as opposed to having to disconnect from the battery when not in use for extended periods. Thus, I was thinking about adding one of these (one to battery, other to 300A fuse block)...this should do the trick, yes?

http://shop.pkys.com/Blue-Sea-6006200-Mini-ON-OFF-Battery-Switch-in-Black_p_3648.html?gclid=CNjC8Z73jsoCFYcjgQodsMgBrw

post-31175-0-51302500-1451870059_thumb.j

Edited by NCSurfing

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MLA

Why circumvent the main battery switch and add more? One switch turns all off but the auto bilge.

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Soon2BV

Its not here to confirm, but i believe my amp (JL Audio) has a remote switch that only has it powered when the head unit is on. The amp is wired direct to one battery.

Does your amp have a remote input?

AMP.pdf

Edited by Soon2BV

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NCSurfing

Why circumvent the main battery switch and add more? One switch turns all off but the auto bilge.

I wanted to have the audio system on a separate battery bank....mostly due to Malibus recommendation not to tie a system that large into the alternator although our specific use patterns are also better served by this model.

Its not here to confirm, but i believe my amp (JL Audio) has a remote switch that only has it powered when the head unit is on. The amp is wired direct to one battery.

Does your amp have a remote input?

It does and it's hooked up however, I wasn't worried specifically about the ability to turn the amps on and off (which happens with head unit) rather a 'live' power source hooked to them during the week when I am not using it. Edited by NCSurfing

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MadMan

this should do the trick?

Yes, that switch will work.

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MLA

I wanted to have the audio system on a separate battery bank....mostly due to Malibus recommendation not to tie a system that large into the alternator although our specific use patterns are also better serve by this model.

Odd that Malibu suggested this, and they dont fallow it themselves. Have you talked with Indmar or GM, who actually do the engines?

So what is your plan for a long day on the water, when your G-31 dedicated stereo battery is dead in about 2 hours because it has zero alternator contribution? I can assure that your stereo system will not damage the alternator.

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NCSurfing

Odd that Malibu suggested this, and they dont fallow it themselves. Have you talked with Indmar or GM, who actually do the engines?

So what is your plan for a long day on the water, when your G-31 dedicated stereo battery is dead in about 2 hours because it has zero alternator contribution? I can assure that your stereo system will not damage the alternator.

I ran my previous system off this battery and would get 6+ hrs play time before a charge was needed. Am thinking I may add another in parallel which will increase this. I have an onboard AGM charger and shore power at the dock so I hook it up for a charge each night thus, what you outlined hasn't been an issue.

Curious though as I struggled with the best way to do this...how is yours setup? The thing that drove me nuts in the past when I had it run to main battery switch was having to switch the battery every time I went from running to stopped (I had engine and accessories on 1 and stereo on 2)

Edited by NCSurfing

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jonyb

The spark you speak of is the power supply charging.

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MLA

I ran my previous system off this battery and would get 6+ hrs play time before a charge was needed. Am thinking I may add another in parallel which will increase this. I have an onboard AGM charger and shore power at the dock so I hook it up for a charge each night thus, what you outlined hasn't been an issue.

Curious though as I struggled with the best way to do this...how is yours setup? The thing that drove me nuts in the past when I had it run to main battery switch was having to switch the battery every time I went from running to stopped (I had engine ans accessories on 1 and stereo on 2)

One issue with a battery-direct system with zero input from the alternator, is that the battery is cycling WAY deeper then it needs to. The other issue is the very nature of your thread here, and thats having 12V B+ to the amps ALL the time and no way to disconnect it for storage. Yes, a simple ON/OFF switch will do this, but I dont feel battery direct is the way to go.

The best way to do it with the switch your boat has, is to wire all B+ to the C post of the switch. If dont want to mess with the switch but when you board the boat and then leave the boat, then swap the switch and add an ACR/VSR setup. Stereo and other house loads only draw from the house battery, house battery receives alternator charge will engine is running and the switch disconnects all voltage when boat is stored. This a manual/passive setup and work very well.

1st and 2nd boat were manual setups with a 1/2/BOTH switch. 3 boat was a manual/passive setup like i just described. 4th boat is under construction and will likely be a large Ah bank thats stand-alone due to the engine being a smallish outboard.

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NCSurfing

The spark you speak of is the power supply charging.

Thanks jonyb...you,mean the power supplies on the amps? Is this why I heard them cycle as soon as I hooked up the battery (before turning them on)?

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David

The spark at connection is caused by the empty filter capacitors across the primary terminals inside the amplifier. The same occurs inside a switch, where you can't see it, but to a lesser degree with a more positive contact.

I'm going to mirror just about everything that MLA states. Because he is right.

A simple single 1/2/All/Off manual switch will do the job. There's no need or no point to having two switches.

If you are running the stereo battery down at rest no lower than 12.0 volts, which is recommended, then the drained battery represents no real threat to the alternator. If you are cycling deeper then you are rapidly shortening the effective life span of the battery and adding an unnecessary load to the alternator especially when combined with the stereo draw at high output and boat operations.

Running the stereo battery bank independent of the alternator at all times is just placing added stress on the battery. It would be better to operate the audio system off the alternator with battery reserves while running around and until you are at rest.

It would be a very different story if you had 500 A/H reserves combined with a 10Xmegawatt system, or even with a jet boat having only a 28 amp stator.

An ACR plus a dual circuit battery switch is the ideal solution because it allows the alternator to service the system until you have a long and loud duration at rest and then the ACR automatically keeps the alternator off line until it is safe for the alternator to come on line and charge the stereo bank.

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NCSurfing

The spark at connection is caused by the empty filter capacitors across the primary terminals inside the amplifier. The same occurs inside a switch, where you can't see it, but to a lesser degree with a more positive contact.

I'm going to mirror just about everything that MLA states. Because he is right.

A simple single 1/2/All/Off manual switch will do the job. There's no need or no point to having two switches.

If you are running the stereo battery down at rest no lower than 12.0 volts, which is recommended, then the drained battery represents no real threat to the alternator. If you are cycling deeper then you are rapidly shortening the effective life span of the battery and adding an unnecessary load to the alternator especially when combined with the stereo draw at high output and boat operations.

Running the stereo battery bank independent of the alternator at all times is just placing added stress on the battery. It would be better to operate the audio system off the alternator with battery reserves while running around and until you are at rest.

It would be a very different story if you had 500 A/H reserves combined with a 10Xmegawatt system, or even with a jet boat having only a 28 amp stator.

An ACR plus a dual circuit battery switch is the ideal solution because it allows the alternator to service the system until you have a long and loud duration at rest and then the ACR automatically keeps the alternator off line until it is safe for the alternator to come on line and charge the stereo bank.

Thanks David. So it's not too late for me to change my mindset on this...how would you wire it? Seems the factory setup has accessories on both batteries and I didn't want to mess with that setup and introduce an option to void a warranty claim - in fact my primary goal was to leave the factory setup as is but wanted to use my XP3000 AGM (group 31) for the stereo.

Do I add my group 31 as a third battery and wire it directly to the switch? I would love a solution that allows me to not have the stereo stand alone however, just not sure how to do in a way that leaves the current setup alone. Also, what's the proper implementation of the ACR?

Edited by NCSurfing

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DarkSide

NC,

A simple solution is to power RFX6000 off of the switch, then tie amps directly to battery. You should have multiple batteries. position one should be start battery, position 2 should be house battery (stereo, lights, etc). Additional batteries can be added in parallel to battery 2, thus extending play time without the engine running.

The amps will not turn on without the head unit on. The reason to do this is the perko, has a 250 amp limit, I don't know how much power you will be running, but this would be a good idea if you are running tons of power.

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David

I wouldn't worry about the Perko switch capacity. 250 amps is the DC continuous rating and audio is an AC format. So it would take a Class D audio system well in excess of 10,000 output watts to approach 250 continuous amps DC draw.

Also, consider that the most demanding draw is that of starting the boat....which normally passes through the Perko. Plus, the alternator output reaches the batteries via the Perko. The Perko is made to do the job.

If you need more capacity, both Blue Sea and Perko have 350 amp switches available.

On another subject, I like the Perko disconnect as the main amplifier supply cut-off while the boat is in storage. Why? There is a safety component to this. Yes, you can use the circuit breakers to do the same but owners are not as likely to use the breakers as a storage disconnect. A single big red switch in a prominent and easy-to-reach location makes sense. The amplifiers cannot turn-on without the HU remote trigger but since power is always applied to the primary B+ terminal it is possible for an amplifier to internally short if it gets wet while in storage (from a wind driven horizontal rain, etc.). Water is an interesting conductor because it can short and burn the amplifier without ever drawing enough current to trip or blow even a small breaker or fuse.

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MLA

Thanks David. So it's not too late for me to change my mindset on this...how would you wire it? Seems the factory setup has accessories on both batteries and I didn't want to mess with that setup and introduce an option to void a warranty claim - in fact my primary goal was to leave the factory setup as is but wanted to use my XP3000 AGM (group 31) for the stereo.

Do I add my group 31 as a third battery and wire it directly to the switch? I would love a solution that allows me to not have the stereo stand alone however, just not sure how to do in a way that leaves the current setup alone. Also, what's the proper implementation of the ACR?

Can you did up your thread from a couple months ago about the switch and battery? I think this was answered there.

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MLA
A simple solution is to power RFX6000 off of the switch, then tie amps directly to battery.

Unfortunately, this puts him right back to the beginning of this thread.........how to disconnect the amps from the battery(s) when boat is not in use. Yes, the amp wont wake up until the head-unit is turned on, but they will always have a 12V closed circuit to them.

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NCSurfing

Can you did up your thread from a couple months ago about the switch and battery? I think this was answered there.

I was looking thru that yesterday before I started this one as I recall it was essentially a discussion between you and I. However, we didn't really address how I would wire it if I chose to use the switch. Given my goal is to leave the factory battery setup as is, trying to understand how I add my XP? Can I just run it parallel off of battery 2 as Darkside suggests and hook the amp back up to the switch? The only thing I don't like about this is that I have to disconnect it every time I want to charge it (as it's AGM whereas stock is deep cycle) Edited by NCSurfing

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MLA

Leave the factory wiring as is, providing its correct, wire your amps' B+ to the switch, then swap on of the original batteries for your XS, pull tab and enjoy the tunes.

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DarkSide

I agree with most of what David is saying, and there is excellent advice there. However, an amplifier is fed via DC, also amplifiers are absolutely not capable of delivering more power than they consume. In reality most amplifiers are fairly inefficient devices. Efficiency rating can be found in the amplifier specifications. Likely as bad as 65% but in some cases as high as 85%. So it will consume 100 watts for every 65-85 Watts of music delivery.

Other published specs should include Fuse size and max current draw at full power. Add these values up if the max music current draw is under 250 total for all of your amps, then you are safe using the perko. If these total over 250, then your perko could become your fuse.

However if you are using so much power that you will be exceeding 250 A, you would likely not be able to stand being in the boat anyway, it would be painfully loud.

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NCSurfing

I appreciate the feedback guys...going to switch and put it on the perko. However, any thoughts on how I might handle the wiring? The AGM I use has M6 posts (see below) which I can convert to a ring terminal however, I'm not sure I can get any accessories on there. Does anyone know how the stock battery 2 is wired (what's on it)?

post-31175-0-44239400-1452218053_thumb.j

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NCSurfing

I took everyone's advice and am much happier with a switched setup. I am going to replace the stock battery #2with an XP2000 (that's their group 24) which will allow to use the existing battery box, location and wiring config. From it, I am going to run my existing XP3000 in parallel, effectively giving me a big bump in my idle play time. Does anyone see a challenge with this approach? Also, does anyone know what the 2 other ground words are that come to this battery?

post-31175-0-29496100-1452468592_thumb.j

Edited by NCSurfing

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MLA

I would not suggest wiring the AGM to the existing wet cell. I would swap it out for the AGM.

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NCSurfing

I would not suggest wiring the AGM to the existing wet cell. I would swap it out for the AGM.

Right...that's what I was saying above - perhaps not so clearly. I am going to replace the current (in pic) with an XP 2000 and then add my XP3000 in parallel

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MLA

Sorry, kinda read it on the fly and saw the word parallel. There is a slight concern about wiring together two batteries of different capacities. Theres also a little concern when wiring new and used batteries together. When you wire two or batteries together, whether its series or parallel, they become one. They equalize in voltage and try to equally distribute the charge. The issue is, difference sized batteries and new and used batteries have different internal resistance. This effects there rate of discharge, their rate of charge and their static voltage.

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