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Hard wake, Soft wake ???


gonorth

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I have heard the term several times now. The other day I pulled a pro-barefooter that used to work at sea world. (My first time pulling a footer) She had never footed behind a Malibu before and said it was a good pull but the wake was soft and that she could have used an extra MPH or two because of it. I meant to ask her more about that but the discussion went to her instructing my two daughters and I never got back to that.

Can some of you explain what Hard/Soft means? Which is better for barefoot, slolom, wakeboarding? I'm guessing it has something to do with how the boat compresses the watter but like I said, just a guess.

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Can some of you explain what Hard/Soft means?

Actually a great question to which I do not know the answer. Just seems to me there is a goooood joke in there somewhere. ROFL.gif

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Can some of you explain what Hard/Soft means?

Hard

Brick-03-Color.jpg

Soft

200px-A_single_white_feather_closeup.jpg

;)

I'll take wakeboarding...

Most of time wakeboarders want a hard wake. A soft wake compresses as you edge through it. When you are using the wake to get air you want it to be solid - much like hitting a wooden ramp on a skateboard. Imagine riding over one built out of foam - not good.

Wake hardness is a function of the hull design and how it is weighted. If a boat is weighted with all the weight it the rear wakes usally become steep and peaky and as a result soft. This is becase they don't have much width or mass and are easy to break through - or soft. To make the wake hard the boat must be evenly loaded. Weight in the front and rear, the entire boat is moving the water and creating a big solid wake. When a rider with a serious cut rides up it has enough mass to prevent the rider from busting through the top or feeling mushy.

Another aspect of wake hardness is speed. As the speed increases the water (and wake) becomes harder. However most of the time in wakeboarding the wake becomes smaller as the speed increases so it is a trade off. This is one of the reasons you see pros with 3000+ pounds of weight running 24-26MPH.

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I'll throw my $.02 on Slalom.

A skier wants a soft wake. Unlike a boarder, the skier wants to slice thru the wake with as little ski bounce as possible. When Malibu went from the SV23 hull to the Diamond hull on the ski boats, I didn't notice that much difference in the wake size, but the wake on the Diamond was softer and easier for a skier with less than perfect form to slice thru. My SLxi on a Diamond hull is much heavier than my Echelon on the SV23 hull, but I find the wake softer and easier to slice thru.

A footer wants as solid of a wake as possible because a soft wake with let them punch a foot thru much easier.

As a little side note, the other day I boarded for the first time behind a "wakeboard" boat. I've always boarded behind a direct drive, I suck at boarding so I didn't care. So, the first cut across the V-ride wake, wedged and lightly sacked, I hit the wake and just shot up in the air. As the board was gaining altitude at a much higher rate of speed than my head, I bailed and went into self protect mode. I'm calling it my first invert trick. I was used to hitting the much softer wake behind my SLxi, and when I hit the hard wake of the V-ride it launched me.

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I went slalom skiing behind my 06 VLX last night after being used to the wake behind my 01 SS VLX with the diamond hull. They are both V-drives, but there is quite a difference. The wake at 30 mph looks just a bit bigger than the wake was behind the SS VLX, but it is a lot harder. I had fun free skiing, but was too timid to try any hard cuts across the wake for fear I would be launched. That is fine with a wakeboard going 19 to 20 mph, but not so good with a slalom ski going 30.

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soft wake on a BF boat means you have to add speed to do tricks like surface turns and 1 foot tricks. with increased speed comes increased pain.

the harder the wake the easier it is to cross and do tricks basically. Some call it personal preference.

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soft wake on a BF boat means you have to add speed to do tricks like surface turns and 1 foot tricks. with increased speed comes increased pain.

the harder the wake the easier it is to cross and do tricks basically. Some call it personal preference.

OK, if the increased speed is because of soft wake, when you wipe out and hit that soft wake it shouldn't hurt so much. (just jerking our chain a little) Crazy.gif

Actually, great explainatoins. I understand a lot more now.

Any opinions on how a Response LX would compare to a Prostar 197 at 38-40 mph?

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never footed behind a prostar 197, but I've spent some time in an X5 and they are really nice boats, but not the footing boat the rlx is IMO.

I don't know anyone who would take a 197 over a response to foot behind. But if she likes it, she likes it. Its all presonal preference and what you're used to IMO. I know guys that would rather use their 15 year old trick handle than a nice new one???

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As far as barefoot wakes go I found that the SSP eliminated the soft foamy ridges and dips found in the center of the wake of the Rlx. Without the plate I found that I really had to pay close attention when crossing or I'd wind up on my face. When I added the plate it opened the door for one foot crossings.

I'm not having as much luck with the plate behind the Rlxi. Still a bit of a dip there, but I still need to do some playing w/ rope lengths and plate adjustment.

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I have heard the term several times now. The other day I pulled a pro-barefooter that used to work at sea world. (My first time pulling a footer) She had never footed behind a Malibu before and said it was a good pull but the wake was soft and that she could have used an extra MPH or two because of it. I meant to ask her more about that but the discussion went to her instructing my two daughters and I never got back to that.

Can some of you explain what Hard/Soft means? Which is better for barefoot, slolom, wakeboarding? I'm guessing it has something to do with how the boat compresses the watter but like I said, just a guess.

Great question.

Does the prop affect the hardness or softness of the wake?

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never footed behind a prostar 197, but I've spent some time in an X5 and they are really nice boats, but not the footing boat the rlx is IMO.

I don't know anyone who would take a 197 over a response to foot behind. But if she likes it, she likes it. Its all presonal preference and what you're used to IMO. I know guys that would rather use their 15 year old trick handle than a nice new one???

I am gonna have to pull her a few more times to let her get a better idea of the differences in the two boats. One short run can't tell a lot. She wouldn't do any tricks on the run with my boat either because I didn't have a release on it yet. It will be interesting to see what she and her husband say about a slolom run with the RLX too.

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Any opinions on how a Response LX would compare to a Prostar 197 at 38-40 mph?

A ProStar 197 won't go 40 MPH.

:lol:

Nice. :lol:

I have heard the term several times now. The other day I pulled a pro-barefooter that used to work at sea world. (My first time pulling a footer) She had never footed behind a Malibu before and said it was a good pull but the wake was soft and that she could have used an extra MPH or two because of it. I meant to ask her more about that but the discussion went to her instructing my two daughters and I never got back to that.

Can some of you explain what Hard/Soft means? Which is better for barefoot, slolom, wakeboarding? I'm guessing it has something to do with how the boat compresses the watter but like I said, just a guess.

Great question.

Does the prop affect the hardness or softness of the wake?

Yes it does.

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Come on now WakeGirl, you can't just say "yes it does" and leave it at that. Can you elaborate? At least in general terms regarding things like 3 versus 4 blade, higher versus lower pitch...

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Anyone have a engineering degree with a focus on hydrodynamics?

From personal experience...

My 13 X 14 4 blade put out a tighter, harder, more turbulent wake than my 13 X 12 CNC'd 3 blade.

The steeper pitch pushes the water back harder causing the difference? Dontknow.gif

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I was always under the impression that a 4 blade prop made the wake softer and less turbulent. I've never tested or played around with 3 vs. 4. I had a 3 blade on my sporty and never changed it. I had 4 blade on my wakeboard boats and always changed them to other 4 blades.

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Here is an opportunity for an inventor, a take off from the power wedge. Invent a prop where you can push a button and make the prop switch between hard and soft wakes. The perfect combo for slolom, footing, and wakdboarding change overs. (anyone ever change their prop between runs?) :lol:

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I was always under the impression that a 4 blade prop made the wake softer and less turbulent.
I think that was true until they came out with the large blade CNC'd props. I think pitch would affect the wake qualities more than the number of blades... Dontknow.gif Edited by NorCaliBu
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While I've never tested the new CNC'd props against the 4-blade nibral, I noticed a softer wake behind my Echelon when I replaced the 3-blade stainless with a 4-blade nibral. More than the hardness, I noticed that my wake was much more symetrical with the 4-blade nibral than with the stainless 3-blade. I dont know if it was the prop material, number of blades, or just the manufacturer that made the difference tho.

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That's the problem...too many variables. You changed # of blades, material, and possibly pitch. I changed # of blades & pitch...

We need a comparo between a 13 X 12 cast 3 blade, a 13 X 12 CNC'd 3 blade, & a 13 X 12 4 blade. Surprised.gif

Who's gonna volunteer to buy all of those and test them side by side by side? Crazy.gif

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