Semantics - I/O called "ski" or "Wake" boats?

[dlb]

Call it what you want. What ever gives you pleasure.

I call mine a wakeboard boat. Most people respond "what is that". When they find out it has over 300 HP they want to know if it does 80 MPH.

So I am gravitating to saying I have a boat and when they ask what kind I say it's a Malibu. The conversation about boats a few times has ended there.

[MadMan]

I'm proud to call my Malibu a runabout.

Okay, so for whatever it is worth:

"Runabouts: A broad category of boats, runabouts are the most common small boats and include bowriders, deck boats and cuddy cabins. These boats are versatile, accommodating large numbers of passengers and can be used for virtually any type of boating activity including: day cruising, overnight cruising, fishing, watersports or entertaining.

http://powerboat.about.com/od/powerboats/tp/TypesofBoats.htm

And for more types listed: http://www.boatus.com/newtoboating/types-of-boats-powerboats.asp

Where:

"Runabout

Many boats are called runabouts. Generally a runabout is defined as a small powerboat somewhere in the 14–24 foot range. They are usually powered by an outboard or stern-drive engine. They are a multipurpose boat suitable for water sports, cruising and fishing."

and

"Ski and Wakeboard Boat

These boats are designed specifically for water sports. They can be ballasted for producing higher wakes for trick skiing and waterboarding. They are also great for pulling inflatable tubes."

These definitions are generally consistent with what I've always believed when it comes to terminology. Yes there is some ambiguity about what constitutes "specifically designed for watersports." Given that the general definition of a runabout includes that capability, I still do not consider a boat that would be a runabout to be a ski boat just because it has a tower or storage for skis. But again, I don't really care, I'm just wondering what people generally mean when they use terms, even if they use them "improperly." I only posted these definitions since folks are now calling those who differentiate purpose built ski/wake boats from general purpose ones used for watersports.

On edit. Sorry I have no clue what's up with the foratting up there. Tried to change it, couldn't.

[ajgear]

People can call their Rinkers ski boats or their Chaparrals wake boats. They can hang arches and board racks on them and put pylons and ski lockers in them. And yes, they can, in fact ski/board behind them. And they can have a lot of fun doing it. Heck, I had fun skiing behind my dad's Ranger 680T with a tiller drive 60 horse. But a ski boat it was not.

So, while I agree that snobbery is just as bad as braggadocio, we need to call things what they are, or terms lose their meaning. Distinctions are important to maintain the accuracy of communication in all realms. So let's call things what they are. If the primary intended purpose behind the boat's design is to be a ski/wake boat (regardless of engine placement or drive type), then it's a ski/wake boat, even if it sucks at it. But if it's a runabout or cruiser that simply has the ability to tow a boarder/skier, it's a runabout or a cruiser. I don't think it's snobbery to ask people to be accurate in their descriptions. If I'm a finish carpenter, I may prefer a tack hammer to a claw hammer. If I'm a framer I prefer the claw hammer. In either case I don't view one hammer as inherently better than the other, but I also understand that each is better at its particular function. I can interchange them, but neither will do as well in the other's roll. So if I'm coming over to help you frame in a garage, and you tell me you have a claw hammer I can use, you better not hand me a tack hammer when I get there and expect me to be of help. It's not snobbery to say, "Dude, you said you had a claw hammer. This is a tack hammer, not a claw hammer."

In reality, it's the marketing and sales people who have changed the lexicon. I mean hey, who wants to buy a 'runabout' when you can have a 'ski boat' or a 'wake boat'? So take the same tired runabout hull and slap a tower or a pylon on it, and now you can call it a ski or wake boat. Well you can strap a narwhal tusk on a white horse, but it doesn't make it a unicorn.

[SkiBumPMC]

It's like someone saying Kleenex...Just a name they used to describe their boat and what they do with it.

The reality is many boat owners, especially first time owners, don't know what they want. They might look at or want an inboard Malibu, Nautique or Master Craft but they flip out at the prices, so they go looking for the next best option. This is why the mainstream boat mfr's have marketed some of their boats as wakeboard boats because they know that many people simply won't fork out the cash for a new or even a used inboard; plus, they want a share of the market. Of course, those boats won't perform like an inboard, but they may serve the purpose of the people that own them.

Inboards, (DD or V-Drive) are purpose built boats, like a fishing boat or high performance speed boat (Off-shore). You want to ski, buy a DD, you want to fish, buy a fishing boat, you want to go fast, buy an off-shore speed boat. However, not everyone uses their boat for only one purpose and there are trade-offs with any boat. Frankly, I'd rather be in a 26 foot Cobalt doing 55 or 60 on a busy Saturday than getting pounded at 45 MPH in a DD or less pounded in a V-Drive. The Cobalt is the better boat for cruising, but it will still pull skiers, boarders and tubers, so, for may people, that is the best all around boat.

I've been a skier since 5 years old and I bought an inboard for the torque and the hole-shots getting up on a slalom ski with double boots. However, I made a tradeoff and bought a V-Drive for the room and a better rough water ride and also because I realized my days of going pro, were over. That said, I'd rather get a pull behind my neighbors Malibu Response, any day of the week, which I normally do!

Frankly, I sometimes laugh at some of the people I see boarding behind some of the newest, most expensive direct drives out there which, these days, are mainly V-Drives. Most of the boarders I see look like novice slalom skiers on a fat ski, just going back & forth across the wake; they simply don't have the skills to justify the boat. On the other hand, the best boarders I've seen on my lake are a group of younger kids who routinely land flips and 360's and they have some tricked out Reinell from the late 1980's with a tower on it. To them, that is their wakeboard boat.

I call my V-Drive a Ski Boat...Because that's what I do, plus, that is the heritage behind of all Malibu's, Nautiques & Master Crafts ! ! !

[robbennett]

People are ALWAYS calling my boat a ski boat. I tell them actually it is a wakeboard boat. Both inboards completely opposite objective. They even make inboard center console fishing boats like the Fish Nautique. I believe that a wake or ski boat could be made out of something other than an inboard but most of what is happening is adding ballast, tower cruise and pylons to the same old runabout hull. I still believe that there is plenty of potential to have fun behind these and they fit some peoples needs just right. Most of us on this forum are lucky enough to have a quality inboard that puts out a perfectly flat or huge wake. The guy with the shallow dock with stumps may need to adapt an I/O to a wake boat out of necessity.

On a side note what is the price point difference in an "I/O wakeboard boat" and a "real" wake boat? I know a small Bayliner or Sea Ray that puts out fairly flat ski wakes is substantially cheaper than a DD ski boat.

[SkiBumPMC]

You shouldn't take it personally that people refer to your boat as a ski boat.

Again, like Kleenex, "ski boat" is the name that most people generically attribute to inboards. Beyond that, all these bands, Malibu, Nautique & Master Craft did build their brands on waterskiing, so it's only understandable that people refer to them as Kleenex, I mean, ski boats.

In actuality, inboard boats, DD & V-Drive, have morphed into multi-sport boats for any water sports enthusiast, boarding, surfing or skiing. A DD with ballast and a wedge can pull most boarders, perfectly fine. Likewise, without ballast, a V-Drive can pull a slalom skier at 36 mph and have a better wake any I/O. Plus, with an inboard, DD or V-Drive, a skier will pop out of the water and won't get dragged halfway across the lake under water. Actually, for wakeboarding, because of the wide surface area, you really don't need the torque of the inboard for hole shots, like a slalom skier, as most I/O's will pull a boarder up fairly quickly. The same cannot be said for a slalom skier behind an I/O, especially with a narrow slalom ski and double boots. An I/O on a Bayliner or Sea Ray will double or triple the time for a slalom skier to get on plane, especially with several people in the boat, whereas my VLX pops me up in about in about 3 to 4 seconds, regardless. Beyond that, an advanced slalom skier will pull a Bayliner off track on every turn, which will give you slack in the rope.

Also, aside from crafting a hull for wakes, flat or big, the main difference in most inboards (Malibus, Nautiques & MC's) is that they are "wet" hulls, meaning that they don't plane off like most I/O's. This is why they handle so well, but also why they don't handle really rough water as well as a deep v hull found on most I/O's. A wet hull with inboard propulsion is also why you can maintain & control your speed at 15 to 18 to 22 mph without having the bow rising up and not being able to see over it. Of course, you could make a V-Drive or a DD with a planning hull and they do. Likewise, I suppose they could make an I/O with a wet hull, although the lack low end of torque in the drivetrain would likely make it a challenge to maintain constant speeds.

So, your Wakesetter and my VLX are V-Drive boats, but they will still do any watersport better than most I/O's on the market.

[67King]

People are ALWAYS calling my boat a ski boat. I tell them actually it is a wakeboard boat. Both inboards completely opposite objective. They even make inboard center console fishing boats like the Fish Nautique. I believe that a wake or ski boat could be made out of something other than an inboard but most of what is happening is adding ballast, tower cruise and pylons to the same old runabout hull. I still believe that there is plenty of potential to have fun behind these and they fit some peoples needs just right. Most of us on this forum are lucky enough to have a quality inboard that puts out a perfectly flat or huge wake. The guy with the shallow dock with stumps may need to adapt an I/O to a wake boat out of necessity.

On a side note what is the price point difference in an "I/O wakeboard boat" and a "real" wake boat? I know a small Bayliner or Sea Ray that puts out fairly flat ski wakes is substantially cheaper than a DD ski boat.

I'd say they probably fit most people's needs just right, or at least did until surfing became so prominent. I actually really like Yamaha's, and was considering those as an alternative to an Axis back in early 2011. There is a 21' "Watersports edition" one that bases at $50K. The Response bases at $65K. However, according to seedealercost.com anyway, the dealer cost on the Yamaha is actually higher than the dealer cost on the Response. So the transaction prices may be a lot closer. They don't list seating capacity, but it probably is pretty close to the Response, as most of the I/O's I see have much less capacity than V-Drives of the same hull length (e.g. our VLX has more room than my friend's 24' Cobalt). Comparably equipped, who knows?

[oldjeep]

I'd be offended if someone referred to my boat as a Surf Boat - might as well call it a tubing boat

FWIW, the first boat I skied a course in was a Mariah Shabah 180? 182?- 4.3L powered I/O. And while I agree that you can really pull around an I/O, it was fine for coming up out of the water without any issues.

Edited November 4, 2015 by oldjeep

[SkiBumPMC]

The two most notable and challenging boats I've skied behind...

At 12 years old, I skied behind an aluminum rowboat with a 1950's Evinrude 18 Horse...I did a dock start on 2 skis, just fine, and got pulled around the lake. However, I got bored and wanted to slalom so I dropped a ski. As I started sinking in the water, the engine puked and we could never get it started again that weekend.

At about 17 years old, I skied behind a 17' Boston Whaler with a 70 horse...As we were leaving the dock with a driver and a spotter, 4 to 5 more people said they wanted to go out on the boat and hopped right on....Ughh??? So, after 2 failed deep-water slalom attempts, breathing water and submarining...On the 3rd attempt, I told the driver to "hit the throttle" when I said hit it, no matter what. So I pulled about 15 feet of rope to slack and said hit it. The driver couldn't believe what I was doing, but after I yelled hit it for the second time, she hit it...After the initial jolt, I still got dragged a bit, but I did manage to old on and get up.

I'm spoiled now, but if I didn't own a boat, I would jump at any chance to ski behind any boat, on any ski, at any time I could...and I would have fun, regardless.

[hunter77ah]

I started wakeboarding behind our 1996 rinker. It was always fun but once we started progressing to faster speeds and bigger tricks, we knew it was time to move on (for our own safety). Like you guys, I now have a habit of asking what the boat is when someone says "ski boat". It's not meant in any negative way, but more of my sheer curiosity.

[Malibuzer]

I'd be offended if someone referred to my boat as a Surf Boat - might as well call it a tubing boat

FWIW, the first boat I skied a course in was a Mariah Shabah 180? 182?- 4.3L powered I/O. And while I agree that you can really pull around an I/O, it was fine for coming up out of the water without any issues.

That is hilarious! That is exactly the boat I first skied the course! Also it was my first boat. Show me some pictures!

[oldjeep]

That is hilarious! That is exactly the boat I first skied the course! Also it was my first boat. Show me some pictures!

It was my father in-laws boat, not sure if I would have a picture of it - it was his last I/O before he got an SSLXI and then an LXI

[Malibuzer]

Here was mine. It was a great first boat. Well put together. I put a lot of money into that 4.3 l to try and get more power. After three times the head gaskets blew I bought my first Malibu.

[kerpluxal]

I will say, there is zero fishing in our TXi

Then what do you use those rod holders for on your fishing scaffolding?

[kerpluxal]

You shouldn't take it personally that people refer to your boat as a ski boat.

Again, like Kleenex, "ski boat" is the name that most people generically attribute to inboards. Beyond that, all these bands, Malibu, Nautique & Master Craft did build their brands on waterskiing, so it's only understandable that people refer to them as Kleenex, I mean, ski boats.

In actuality, inboard boats, DD & V-Drive, have morphed into multi-sport boats for any water sports enthusiast, boarding, surfing or skiing. A DD with ballast and a wedge can pull most boarders, perfectly fine. Likewise, without ballast, a V-Drive can pull a slalom skier at 36 mph and have a better wake any I/O. Plus, with an inboard, DD or V-Drive, a skier will pop out of the water and won't get dragged halfway across the lake under water. Actually, for wakeboarding, because of the wide surface area, you really don't need the torque of the inboard for hole shots, like a slalom skier, as most I/O's will pull a boarder up fairly quickly. The same cannot be said for a slalom skier behind an I/O, especially with a narrow slalom ski and double boots. An I/O on a Bayliner or Sea Ray will double or triple the time for a slalom skier to get on plane, especially with several people in the boat, whereas my VLX pops me up in about in about 3 to 4 seconds, regardless. Beyond that, an advanced slalom skier will pull a Bayliner off track on every turn, which will give you slack in the rope.

Also, aside from crafting a hull for wakes, flat or big, the main difference in most inboards (Malibus, Nautiques & MC's) is that they are "wet" hulls, meaning that they don't plane off like most I/O's. This is why they handle so well, but also why they don't handle really rough water as well as a deep v hull found on most I/O's. A wet hull with inboard propulsion is also why you can maintain & control your speed at 15 to 18 to 22 mph without having the bow rising up and not being able to see over it. Of course, you could make a V-Drive or a DD with a planning hull and they do. Likewise, I suppose they could make an I/O with a wet hull, although the lack low end of torque in the drivetrain would likely make it a challenge to maintain constant speeds.

So, your Wakesetter and my VLX are V-Drive boats, but they will still do any watersport better than most I/O's on the market.

And again.. Ski Pro... AWSA approved ski boat that is... well.... an I/O......

And again.... FlightCraft... Hydrodine.... MasterCraft 200... AWSA approved ski boats... all Outboards

And again.... if you want to get direct down to what kind of boat you have.... you don't have a ski boat... nor a wakeboard boat... you have a "Competition Tow Boat".....

[ahopkins22LSV]

Then what do you use those rod holders for on your fishing scaffolding?

Huh?? I don't have a tower. I know

[williemon]

Thats how i used to call a dedicated ski or wakeboard boat was to call it a competition ski boat. That was a dead hit that it was either a DD or a V drive.

[SkiBumPMC]

I can't believe this topic has created such a ruckus...

Maybe we should just call them "utilities" as that was the first name applied to the open style boats, without cockpits. I'm not positive, but I believe a "runabout" technically refers to the original "cockpit style" boats from Chris-Craft & Century. You could not walk around those boats, you simply hopped into the cockpit and sat down.

As someone said, when asked what kind of boat you have, simply say, " I have a Malibu!" Nuff said!

Edited November 4, 2015 by SkiBumPMC

[MadMan]

Bayliner's Ski Challenger or Wake Challenger

Here's one for sale:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151868600862?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[kerpluxal]

Huh?? I don't have a tower. I know

hmm... u must have one of dem 3 event boats... aww crap... another category

[Bill_AirJunky]

Here's one for sale:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151868600862?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Ever notice how much they look like a Maristar? My guess is there was some funny business going on between MC & Bayliner.

PS: I see they mention this in the Ebay auction.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Bill_AirJunky

[oldjeep]

Ever notice how much they look like a Maristar? My guess is there was some funny business going on between MC & Bayliner.

PS: I see they mention this in the Ebay auction.

Basically bayliner/searay molded a couple old mastercraft hulls and that is how the bayliner/searay ski and wake boats were built.

Although that ad is off. That is a wake challenger, the ski challenger was a dd

Edited November 5, 2015 by oldjeep

[Bill_AirJunky]

And we're not talking about different years either. Both those boats are 1996s.

I've known owners of both boats. The Bayliner drove & handled almost exactly like the MC did (like a tank, slow turning, porpoising, etc.). And the upholstery in the Bayliner was trash. Otherwise it was crazy to see how similar they were.

[Pnwrider]

I can't believe this topic has created such a ruckus...

And that's how you know it's the off season around here...

[67King]

I can't believe this topic has created such a ruckus...

+1. All I wanted to know is what the general consensus was of what people expected when someone said they had a "ski" or "wake" boat. And now I'm a snob to some folks because a Jon Boat with an eye bolt attached to the transom that pulled a well trained squirrel once isn't what I think of as a "ski boat" and I'm not a snob enough for others, because I don't call mine a "Acme Certified, Milky Way Galaxy Class, Competition Caliber, Mac-Daddy Tow Marine Vessel." Like politics.....if you're in the middle, you get run over by both sides!!!