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chrismclean1

LSV engine size?

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chrismclean1

Getting my first ski boat. Always had outboards so don't understand the inboard/surf boat dynamics so thanks for your help in advance. Just curious what the benefits are for getting a bigger engine for the LSV? I barefoot on occasion but really would like to get into wake surfing. I have decided on getting the LSV 2013 or newer. I have found a boat with the 350 and one with the 450. Both happen to be 2014 model years. Is the 450 going to give me a lot more top end speed or is it just going to allow me to weight down the boat more for surfing?

Thanks

Chris

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shawndoggy

not a lot more top end, but yes, ability to push more weight for surfing. If you plan to use the boat to surf, you'll eventually end up disappointed with the performance of the 350 (IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc).

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wedge88

The 450 will give you the best in both worlds. I don't know what you barefoot at but I long line around 41mph. The 350 will get you there with the right prop but it may not be the right prop to push a lot of ballast while surfing. The same works from the other direction. The right prop may push 4K in ballast but you won't hit 41-42mph. With the 450, your chances are better. My A22 has the 350 and while I don't have an issue with running 3K+ ballast and the wedge but I cannot get much above 38-39mph. The LSV is going to be heavier than mine. For reference I run the 1235 prop.

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Kalamazoo

altitude matters too. I'm near sea level, 350 is usually plenty if propped correctly. if at elevation you need more displacement...and the right prop.

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kx250frider617

Get the 450. My buddy has it in his 16' lsv and it's perfect for that size boat. I have another buddy that has a 14' lsv with the 409 and it's a tad bit under powered when running pnp ballast and wedge with more than two people in the boat.

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Steve B.

The bigger the better= chick magnet.

I got a one track mind. Fairly obvious, lol,

Steve B.

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skyskier

My boat has way too much horsepower and torque...........said no one.......ever.

And now some useful info..........

My 2004 23 LSV had plenty of power with the 383 Hammerhead and 1235 prop. My 2008 and 2010 23 LSV's with the 350 Monsoon did not have enough power with the factory prop. The 1235 prop woke them up just enough to get the job done, but with nothing left in reserve. My current boat is a 247 with the big block engine. This is my first boat with a big block. The prop is Acme 1615. Acceleration is instant. The pull is rock solid......even as the boat is crossing over rollers. I can't feel it when speed control tells the boat to speed up or slow down. Top speed was close to 60 mph with the factory prop, which I think was Acme 537. The 1615 dropped top speed by about 3 mph. I mention top speed because it may matter to you. It does not matter to me. I ride at 23.6 MPH and cruise at around 35 MPH. Anything over that is wasted on me.

If you get the small engine you won't know what you are missing......and that's ok. If you get the big engine there is no way you will ever go back.

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wdr

IME/IMO with all things being equal go bigger. If the cost difference is going to be a deal breaker I honestly don't think that you will be disappointed with a 350 spinning at least a 1235. I have been running that set up for 5 years and 560 hours @ 350 ASL. Granted it is an older boat and I "occasionally hit the wall" when I am getting going but not often. I am running full MLS both sides with a home built surf gate with an 1100 in the locker and a 750 in the bow with max wedge and 4-6 peeps @ 3200 rpm. Wake boarding is not a problem. You can forget about footing and slalom blows but it is doable at 75 ft with some front ballast. A more aggressive prop might show even better results for you.

I almost forgot, if you plan on surfing with 750s in both rear lockers w/o bow ballast you will definately need a bigger engine. I can do it, but only with out the wedge and having to utilizie all of my captain skills. :) Fortunately with the surf gate I never have to!

Edited by wdr

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ConnollyCrew

Getting my first ski boat. Always had outboards so don't understand the inboard/surf boat dynamics so thanks for your help in advance. Just curious what the benefits are for getting a bigger engine for the LSV? I barefoot on occasion but really would like to get into wake surfing. I have decided on getting the LSV 2013 or newer. I have found a boat with the 350 and one with the 450. Both happen to be 2014 model years. Is the 450 going to give me a lot more top end speed or is it just going to allow me to weight down the boat more for surfing?

Thanks

Chris

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ConnollyCrew

In tow boats, bigger engine means more torque. You are buying a water tractor....a bad a** water tractor. Great choice in boat, make sure you post pics of your new ride!

Last weekend I was running about 3200# ballast and the 350 did great with the torque prop.

Edited by BamaLSV

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JoeA

There's no such thing as too much power. 450 is the ideal engine unless you can find one with an LSA (555HP). All engines burn a lot of gas so do not go in to this thinking the smaller engine will save you money on fuel costs. Do not make buy something you'll regret.

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WINEGRAPEGROWER

There's no such thing as too much power. 450 is the ideal engine unless you can find one with an LSA (555HP). All engines burn a lot of gas so do not go in to this thinking the smaller engine will save you money on fuel costs. Do not make buy something you'll regret.

The ilmor engines. the 409 HP and 450 HP. SInce you are wnating more TQ, what are the TQ rating for the 2 engines? I would be more concerned about the TQ than the HP! I gott think there is not that much of a differernce and certainly not worth whatever they charge more for the 450 over the 409.

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The Hulk

450 you wont regret, LSA 555 if you can find... so worth it, especially if you want to barefoot you'll get there in a hurry with the LSA comparable to a smaller closed bow with 250hp which shocks everyone who has ridden in min. Footing with the LSA is cake in a 2013 LSV + LSA

i can say when i upgrade i will own nothing other than the biggest after seeing the performance difference. If i was on a budget id upgrade engine first then worry about everything else. think of re-sale value...more power = better resale. Look online anything with a 350 or less in a wake boat is taking a major price hit as its not ideal for surfing and anyone wanting to buy a wake boat wants to have the ability to surf. so for resale alone id go as big as possible.

if you like footing consider the 2013: you still get SG + the Haul design IMO makes a smaller wake than the newer body which is heavier as well. so for skiing/footin its better IMO....now for loading the crap out it , it might not take as much with lower top deck vs newer ones. depends on the interior details and what you can find or afford. After testing the 2014 i decided on the 2013 "used" because i felt like the newer boats are geared only for wakeboard/surfing while the 2013 was a great "all around" boat. I was deciding between a new stripped down 2014 with 350, vs a fully loaded every option 2013 with LSA for same price so the decision was pretty easy. I'd recommend going used or more used with biggest HP you can find for less depreciation. May be more upfront but you wont have any issue getting top dollar down the road when you sell.

After testing some of the newer boats i'm not so excited to upgrade right at the moment and will wait a few years as i love the 2013 all around abilities for our families activities and the LSA just barely has to work....well except when i can sneak out and blast across the water at 52....

GO BIG!! best of luck!

Edited by The Hulk

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JoeA

The ilmor engines. the 409 HP and 450 HP. SInce you are wnating more TQ, what are the TQ rating for the 2 engines? I would be more concerned about the TQ than the HP! I gott think there is not that much of a differernce and certainly not worth whatever they charge more for the 450 over the 409.

I agree more torque is definitely what you want. I personally do not know the difference between the 409 and 450 or the Ilmor engines. I do know that it is very frustrating to drive a boat that lacks power.

Scenario #1 So you save a few dollars, get the lower HP/TQ engine, does not perform to your satisfaction, then you're looking for a new prop, and running more RPMs and burning more fuel all the time.

Scenario#2 You enjoy the boat regardless of how many people you have on board, you put as much ballast as you want and you have a great boating season. When you sell you can say it has the LS3 or LSA and you can tell the buyer why that's important.

I personally do have the LSA and love it. Fuel consumption with 3-4 people on board with 3,000lbs ballast and surfing at 11.4 is 6.6 GPH. More people and more ballast then we're burning more gas but never concerned about not having enough power to enjoy the day.

Buying a boat is a big decision so make sure you buy the boat with the best engine for your needs.

Edited by JoeA

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nyryan2001

I'm spoiled rotten on the bigger engines. And I've had 400hp, 450hp and now a 550.

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ah2oguy

Not only should you think about the engine size but also consider the resale value down the road!! Go with the 450

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Fman

I also say 450. I am always amazed on how many posts I see on here about how great the 350 is. Who knows maybe they will bring it back for 2017 :lol: My personal experience with 350 on two VLXs was it was bare minimum, and at 2000' elevation underpowered for what we wanted. I am runnng the 409 on my current VLX and its been a nice tweener engine from the 350 to 450. It has never not had enough power for us to this point, even at 2000' but you definitely cant go wrong with a 450.

There is a crew member here that has a very nice 2014 450 LSV for sale for a great price, definitely worth a look!

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MadMan

When buying a used boat, resale is a double edged sword. It allows you to buy a less sought after boat for a screaming (Halloween pun) deal.

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WINEGRAPEGROWER

I agree more torque is definitely what you want. I personally do not know the difference between the 409 and 450 or the Ilmor engines. I do know that it is very frustrating to drive a boat that lacks power.

Scenario #1 So you save a few dollars, get the lower HP/TQ engine, does not perform to your satisfaction, then you're looking for a new prop, and running more RPMs and burning more fuel all the time.

Scenario#2 You enjoy the boat regardless of how many people you have on board, you put as much ballast as you want and you have a great boating season. When you sell you can say it has the LS3 or LSA and you can tell the buyer why that's important.

I personally do have the LSA and love it. Fuel consumption with 3-4 people on board with 3,000lbs ballast and surfing at 11.4 is 6.6 GPH. More people and more ballast then we're burning more gas but never concerned about not having enough power to enjoy the day.

Buying a boat is a big decision so make sure you buy the boat with the best engine for your needs.

I agree! Stereos and engines, you can never have too much power...Doesn't mean ya gotta use all the time, but always good to have some in reserve. I guess no one has the power curves for the 409 and the 450?

Have had boats for 30+ years, and nothing is more frustrating than to be short on power.

Have ski buddies that have and have had boats with smaller engines..and when it comes times to sell and or trade, they always take a hit. Changing props will often fix the problem, but there is always a sacrifice when going that route.

It is interesting, at least to me, that going from say an older Malibu skier with 250-265 HP, to the current 450 to 550 HP, that boats would go twice as fast....you are increasing the HP by close to 100% and more with the 550 HP! Seems with that much more HP, you'd see some increase in speed!

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chrismclean1

Thanks for all the input and edumacation. I am pumped to finally have an inboard

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The Hulk

I guess no one has the power curves for the 409 and the 450?

Darkside had this info and the PDF on his thread http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/topic/57505-gm-marine-engines-hptorq-curves-included/?hl=%20torque%20%20curve

I was doing some research today and came across this web site. It has the information to all of the GM Marine engines, complete with HP and Torque curves. I found it interesting, so thought I would share if this is a duplicate, I apologize.

www.gmpowertrain.com/MarineEnginesControllers/Introduction.aspx

The interesting thing to me is the torque curves from engine to engine. The 350 produces MORE torque than the 409 upto about 2500 RPM, this could explain why some folks are so happy with the 350, also the 409 produces a similar amount of torque as the LS3 up until around 3300 RPM, then the LS3 has a power bump. The LSA is an absolute Beast producing massive power from idle. I put all 4 torque/HP curves on one sheet just for easy comparison.

The reason I was looking for this is I am planning to change props, to lower my RPM. I wanted to see how much less power the engine is producing at the lower RPM, to see if I would still have the grunt to spin the prop. The 350 starts bleeding torque after ~3200, the LS3 has a steady climb to 4600, so the different engines have VERY different power bands.

below chart in pic format:

post-28204-0-95713200-1446496984_thumb.j

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