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jsmail

Mixing a pair of Icon 8s with the Rev 10s already on the boat

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jsmail

Just looking for a little feedback from this group. I completely understand the difference between the two speakers so we don't need to get into the difference in speaker design. I originally had the Icon 8s with the factory setup and was not satisfied at all, but when I went to take the Icon 8s out I realized they were only being fed 75 watts per speaker and the gains on the RF amp were turned all the way down. At that point I had already purchased a Syn 4 and a pair of Rev 10s. I love how loud the Revs are and was curious if anyone had paired them with the Icons for a Hybrid setup. I talked to Wet Sounds and they said that powered right the Icons would be a perfect compliment to the Rev 10s. I know Exile really pushes their Hybrid setup so I wasn't sure why everyone says that the Icons are a waste with the Rev 10s. We surf a lot and I am looking for a little more sound closer to the boat, and a little richer sound inside the boat.

My plan is to use channels 1-4 bridged on my Syn 6 to give them 200 watts a piece or to use a Syn 2 and give them the same 200 watts a piece.

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shawndoggy

ICBW, but I don't think exile actually does "push" the hybrid setup anymore, but Exile will accommodate people who want to try it.

What shortcoming in your current setup are you trying to address by adding the icons?

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plick1221

Would you change your mind and sell the Icon 8's? I am looking for a pair of the stock Malibu Icon 8's.

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MLA

What are you hoping the smaller Icons with only 75W are going to lend to the setup, next to a 10" Rev-10 fed with 400W each? Even bumped up to 200W, the smaller speaker is going to be dominated by the larger speaker, thats just physics.

I am looking for a little more sound closer to the boat

The Rev-10 will do this, with or without the Icon-8

and a little richer sound inside the boat.

I would address this with the in-boat setup, not the tower setup.

Swap the Icons for the Rev-10 and drive them with the Syn-4

Use the existing 600.4 (now vacant) for the some of the in-boats, maybe, dont know what the rest of the system is other than a Syn-6.

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jsmail

ICBW, but I don't think exile actually does "push" the hybrid setup anymore, but Exile will accommodate people who want to try it.

What shortcoming in your current setup are you trying to address by adding the icons?

I am trying to add more volume at surf distance, but we are on a small lake and I am afraid I am going to piss everybody off if I add another pair of Rev 10s. Also I felt the Icons had a more dynamic sound and actually sounded great inside the boat you just couldn't hear them at all while skiing and wakeboarding.

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MLA

I am trying to add more volume at surf distance, but we are on a small lake and I am afraid I am going to piss everybody off if I add another pair of Rev 10s. Also I felt the Icons had a more dynamic sound and actually sounded great in the boat you just couldn't hear them at all while skiing or wakeboarding.

To have one, you will likely have the other as a matter of fact. Even though the 75W speaker now are hard to hear while surfing, they are traveling across the lake more than you think.

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jsmail

Sorry MLA if I am being confusing. Here is my current setup.

Amps:

SYN 4 - Rev 10s

SYN 6 - In boat (4-xs 650 in front and pass through & 4 xs808 in rear cabin)

JL600.1v2 - 12W6v3

I already own a pair of Icon 8s that came from the factory with the boat. If I use the Icons I will pair it with a SYN 2, if I purchase another pair of Rev 10s I will use another SYN 4.

The in-boat sound is already amazing, but both my wife and I agree that we would like more volume when we surf. That seems to be what we do most. I almost feel the Rev 10s are louder when I ski than when I surf. I am sure that is partially because of the exhaust noise being closer to the boat.

Edited by jsmail

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MLA
I almost feel the Rev 10s are louder when I ski than when I surf

Ok, now im getting confused.........where is this reference coming from, are the Rev-10 already mounted and powered? Are the Icon-8 already pulled off?

I did understand that the Icon-8 were factory installed and they are on 2 chnls of a 600.4, just didnt know what the rest of the system consisted of as you mentioned looking for better sound in the boat.

Im gathering the 2 pair of 6.5" are on chnls 1-4 and the 2 pair or 8's are on 5 and 6 @ 150W to each?

Any way you slice it, I dont see an advantage of hanging an 8" coaxial next to a 400W 10" HLCD.

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shawndoggy

Have you considered an FAE? If your speakers are louder long line that behind the boat it's probably because you are competing with engine noise?

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SuperchargedC6

Why don't you add a WS-420SQ and just use your Rev-10s? With the 420 you can EQ and control volume to each zone separately. You can crank the inboats without having the tower blasting everyone.

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jsmail

Have you considered an FAE? If your speakers are louder long line that behind the boat it's probably because you are competing with engine noise?

I have considered an FAE and I know that would solve my problem, because with the boat weighted down for surfing and running around 3500 RPM there is a decent amount of engine noise, but I love the sound of the LS3 and I am not sure that would be the best option for me. Besides louder is always better... right???

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jsmail

Why don't you add a WS-420SQ and just use your Rev-10s? With the 420 you can EQ and control volume to each zone separately. You can crank the inboats without having the tower blasting everyone.

That is on the short list for offseason improvements... I didn't want to tear the whole boat apart to run the 4 pair of RCAs during the season.

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shawndoggy

I have considered an FAE and I know that would solve my problem, because with the boat weighted down for surfing and running around 3500 RPM there is a decent amount of engine noise, but I love the sound of the LS3 and I am not sure that would be the best option for me. Besides louder is always better... right???

You will still hear the LS3 no doubt. It's not like FAE puts it on mute. At all. At least not mine.

And no louder not always better. You have to consider the added strain on your batteries and charging system too.

I've been in your shoes and run two pair of rev10s very well powered. I (and everyone in my boat) strongly prefer a single pair and FAE.

If you can't hear a pair of well powered rev10s at surf distance something else is the culprit.

Edited by shawndoggy

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jsmail

Ok, now im getting confused.........where is this reference coming from, are the Rev-10 already mounted and powered? Are the Icon-8 already pulled off?

I did understand that the Icon-8 were factory installed and they are on 2 chnls of a 600.4, just didnt know what the rest of the system consisted of as you mentioned looking for better sound in the boat.

Im gathering the 2 pair of 6.5" are on chnls 1-4 and the 2 pair or 8's are on 5 and 6 @ 150W to each?

Any way you slice it, I dont see an advantage of hanging an 8" coaxial next to a 400W 10" HLCD.

The Rev 10s are already mounted.

And yes you are correct on how I have the SYN 6 wired.

I am going to add another pair of tower speakers one way or the other to increase the volume behind the boat (mainly for surfing). So the real question is another pair or Rev 10s or the Icon 8s I already have. I will have to purchase the additional amp either way and there is only $30 difference between the Syn 2 & 4. Just trying to save a little money if the Icon 8s will satisfy what I am trying to achieve. I may just have to wire them up to see the difference for myself and it wouldn't be too difficult since I still have the P400.4 that I could give them 200w a piece for a test.

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TimbrSS

I second the FAE with 1 pair of Rev 10's. Sell the Icons to cover the cost of FAE. I don't need the engine noise at all. It's nice to be able to talk to the driver while surfing if you have to.

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jsmail

You will still hear the LS3 no doubt. It's not like FAE puts it on mute. At all. At least not mine.

And no louder not always better. You have to consider the added strain on your batteries and charging system too.

I've been in your shoes and run two pair of rev10s very well powered. I (and everyone in my boat) strongly prefer a single pair and FAE.

If you can't hear a pair of well powered rev10s at surf distance something else is the culprit.

That was part of my concern with the second pair of Rev 10s. The one pair is already so loud for the rear passengers. So are you using a FAE on your current setup?? Did you notice a difference on you wave, wake, or power after adding???

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shawndoggy

I bought my boat with it installed so I don't have a point of comparison to say anything about power. I did install one on a prior boat. I feel that boat may have lost a couple % of holeshot. But maybe not. Never measured scientifically. Wake and wave are clean. Far will cause a little spray at speed (say 25+). At least mine both have. Seems purely cosmetic (definitely nothing you'd call a rooster) but I don't ski either so dunno how it impacts the barge's ski wake.

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David

I don't like the mix because a) the Rev10s are more sensitive with more output than the Icon8s based on the size difference alone before we even get into a conversation about conventional versus HLCD, b) there is a large difference in power handling (much smaller tweeter VC and much smaller midbass VC on the Icon), and c) 400 watts to each Rev versus 175 watts to each Icon. With speaker and power differences that's easily a 6 dB inequity. Huge. The Icons would be essentially invisible. Or, you can tame the Rev10s to closer match and protect the Icons. In either scenario you are wasting precious power and wasting investment. So get some of the cost of a second pair of Rev10s by selling the Icons.

If you really think that a second pair is necessary then nothing says you have to max the power of both Syn4s in use. The excess would keep things running especially conservative and clean. Plus you have all that speaker surface area and amplifier power so you could do some interesting sound shaping without stressing the equipment.

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jsmail

I don't like the mix because a) the Rev10s are more sensitive with more output than the Icon8s based on the size difference alone before we even get into a conversation about conventional versus HLCD, b) there is a large difference in power handling (much smaller tweeter VC and much smaller midbass VC on the Icon), and c) 400 watts to each Rev versus 175 watts to each Icon. With speaker and power differences that's easily a 6 dB inequity. Huge. The Icons would be essentially invisible. Or, you can tame the Rev10s to closer match and protect the Icons. In either scenario you are wasting precious power and wasting investment. So get some of the cost of a second pair of Rev10s by selling the Icons.

If you really think that a second pair is necessary then nothing says you have to max the power of both Syn4s in use. The excess would keep things running especially conservative and clean. Plus you have all that speaker surface area and amplifier power so you could do some interesting sound shaping without stressing the equipment.

Thanks David... I don't think I have the Rev 10s to their max potential without having the WS 420 because the highs were too overpowering with the gains turned up very loud at all. (Especially with Viper II because it won't allow any settings or fading) So after the feedback about the Icons I think I will go ahead and install the WS420 during the offseason and tune the Rev 10s and in boats speakers a little better and see if I still need more volume for surfing. (I also still might go with a FAE because I have been on the fence with that as well because of the exhaust fumes) If I have to add the Rev 10s later that wouldn't be too difficult or time consuming.

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MLA

For a test run, unplug the RCA cables at the in-boat amp and go for a surf. Feel free to crank the tower speakers and see what you got. If you cant hear Rev-10's driven by a Syn-4 surfing, an EQ wont fix it. If the issue is having the in-boats too loud for passengers before the surfer gets any volume from the tower speakers, then yes, you need some zone control like from the WS-420.

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jsmail

For a test run, unplug the RCA cables at the in-boat amp and go for a surf. Feel free to crank the tower speakers and see what you got. If you cant hear Rev-10's driven by a Syn-4 surfing, an EQ wont fix it. If the issue is having the in-boats too loud for passengers before the surfer gets any volume from the tower speakers, then yes, you need some zone control like from the WS-420.

I didn't go into this because I already knew where this was limited with my current setup, but I have a late production 2015. The early 2015's had both the RF Bluetooth dongle and Viper II. My boat only has Viper II. You cannot shape the sound at all with Viper II without an EQ (There aren't even bass or treble settings within Viper II) If I currently turn the gains up past where they are now the speakers are still clear and get louder but the highs are over powering. Along with being able to control tower vs in boat speakers levels I also will be able to emphasize different sound frequencies (All I am able to do with the amp is set frequency limits or allow the speaker to be full range) I can shape the sound a little more if I use the generic input jack but that isn't convenient or what we ever use. If I am able to tune the bass, mid, and high level frequencies with the WS420 I will be able to turn the gains up and keep the sound proportionate.

Edited by jsmail

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shawndoggy

Most phones have the ability to eq from the source. Not ideal but good for proof of MLAs concept.

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jsmail

Just to finish the thread, I was able to test both sets of tower speakers together (Rev 10s & Icon 8s) before I started changing some in-boat items and it was a fail. The 2 pairs didn't match well at all like everyone said. I also added the RF blue tooth dongle last week which let me tame down the highs on the Rev 10s a little bit and by far the two of them alone versus all 4 sounded best. The Icons actually seemed to add a little deeper sound quality at lower volumes but at higher volumes they got really muddy where the Rev 10s were still crystal clear. I can't wait to get my new gear installed and hear the difference on the in-boats.

Also... is it bad to pack a cooler and sit in the boat in your garage and crank the stereo while sitting alone??? My wife might think I am a little crazy, but I am already having some serious withdrawals.

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Ndawg12

Just to finish the thread, I was able to test both sets of tower speakers together (Rev 10s & Icon 8s) before I started changing some in-boat items and it was a fail. The 2 pairs didn't match well at all like everyone said. I also added the RF blue tooth dongle last week which let me tame down the highs on the Rev 10s a little bit and by far the two of them alone versus all 4 sounded best. The Icons actually seemed to add a little deeper sound quality at lower volumes but at higher volumes they got really muddy where the Rev 10s were still crystal clear. I can't wait to get my new gear installed and hear the difference on the in-boats.

Also... is it bad to pack a cooler and sit in the boat in your garage and crank the stereo while sitting alone??? My wife might think I am a little crazy, but I am already having some serious withdrawals.

We all do it, some admit it, some don't. I like to make low pitched V8 engine noises. :biggrin:

Edited by Ndawg12

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teamerickson

Also... is it bad to pack a cooler and sit in the boat in your garage and crank the stereo while sitting alone??? My wife might think I am a little crazy, but I am already having some serious withdrawals.

Heck no! My boat stereo is better then my car or house setup. Got to enjoy it!

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