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Finally going reversible


Ndawg12

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I am with Shawn on this. I thought i wanted above the water line drains but I procrastinated and had to get the install done quick this spring so I skipped it. At this point I wouldn't worry about it. It is just so easy to leave the locker door open and monitor the bag. I suppose either method is fine but we survived the summer just fine using the through hull for both drain and fill.

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I am with Shawn on this. I thought i wanted above the water line drains but I procrastinated and had to get the install done quick this spring so I skipped it. At this point I wouldn't worry about it. It is just so easy to leave the locker door open and monitor the bag. I suppose either method is fine but we survived the summer just fine using the through hull for both drain and fill.

I did this with my coffin bag the last two summers. Worked like a charm. I was in the same boat as Lance....now I don't know if I'll ever change it.

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Just to clarify....can a reversible pump move more or less water than a 1100gph aerator pump in the same time?

An 1100 gph aerator is going to lose flow at the sac, maybe about 25% depending on the lift and length of hose. At the sac, the flow rate of the aerator and a reversible will be very close.

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You guys draining back out the bottom of the boat, do you have to watch your bags every time you drain so you don't burn up your impeller? Or can you just listen to it?

You can listen to it, but it gets hard to tell with multiple pumps running and impossible when people are chatting in the boat.

basically doubling the wire.

Wire isn't all that expensive or hard to run. Do not do the double wire idea.

You don't. With reversibles with check valves in the vent lines siphoning shouldn't be a concern.

I had draining issues listed until I cross vented. Never had a problem after that. Check valve can't stop water from coming out, otherwise the vent wouldn't "vent."

Less. They are rated at 800GPH

Paper ratings and reality are two very different things. Those aerator ratings don't take into account lift height, which is a killer for aerator pumps. In my real world experience, my impeller pumps are faster than the 1100GPH aerator I had.
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No problem draining out to bottom for me and I have 3 pumps running and you can clearly hear when one is done. I thought about draining out the side but if I had to do it agin I would do it the same way. When people said the pumps where loud I did not believe them. Now if you planning on draing while under way a lot I could see the Benifit as it gets a little harder to hear the pumps.

I have had no distance problems either. My front bag is filled by a thru hull that is up near the front drain plug hose runs to pump in the back then on up to the bow.

I used a blue seas distro box to power and fuse all my wiring.

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I think I'm just going to run the extra hose and drain above the waterline when I do mine... I don't see any risk / downside to it.

other than the obvious downsides of it being more expensive and taking up more room, two more check valves to fail is the risk / downside.

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other than the obvious downsides of it being more expensive and taking up more room, two more check valves to fail is the risk / downside.

hahaha

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I drain out the bottom, mainly because it was an easier install. I do see the value in draining above the waterline though, but I would still personally stick with the way I have it.

Regarding pump ratings, my experience is that the aerator ratings are waaaaayyy overrated, while the reversible ratings are very close. I would argue that at the very least, an 800 GPH reversible pump is equivalent to an 1100 aerator(assuming 1" plumbing), but I believe that it's faster. Also, the reversible just works better in all aspects, especially draining.

Edited by Brodie
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Ok, never thought I'd say this but TMC has talked me into doing something cheaper and easier. So is it really this simple?

IMG_0454_zps0hknicyn.jpg

That's my set-up but I have a diverter valve tucked under the gunnel that let's me throw the valve and either fill the ski locker or the dual bags on the floor for surfing. I went all 1" hose and valves. I also didn't use any vents at all since I like the bags "vacuum sealed" when the drained (floor bags). The locker bag is vented with a 1" to a thru hull but I will tell you the floor on my boat will explode before that vent will keep up with my pump. It's pretty crazy.

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other than the obvious downsides of it being more expensive and taking up more room, two more check valves to fail is the risk / downside.

Plus I like the stealth under hull drain. :)

I'm shocked s many prefer the above water drains. Unless the boat is on plane it's pretty obvious the sound change that pump makes when it runs dry IMO. Even if everyone is chatting on the boat it will catch everyone's attention.

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That's my set-up but I have a diverter valve tucked under the gunnel that let's me throw the valve and either fill the ski locker or the dual bags on the floor for surfing. I went all 1" hose and valves. I also didn't use any vents at all since I like the bags "vacuum sealed" when the drained (floor bags). The locker bag is vented with a 1" to a thru hull but I will tell you the floor on my boat will explode before that vent will keep up with my pump. It's pretty crazy.

if they aren't vented how does the air get out during fill? Is it because i am currently using aerator's that i have to bleed the air from the top of the bag during filling?

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if they aren't vented how does the air get out during fill? Is it because i am currently using aerator's that i have to bleed the air from the top of the bag during filling?

they get sucked dry like a raisin. You might need to vent a top plug on the bag the first time to bleed off air but after that there shouldn't be any air in the bag.

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Nate, I would not do that for a couple of reasons. First it's kinda ghetto. Second it is somewhat irreversible. Once you start hacking up factory wiring it's tough to undo. I guess this goes for removing the hard tank too. what's the point of that? If you ever want to sell the boat this might make it harder.

Spend the money, do it right. Genuinedealz has good prices on tinned duplex 12awg wire. It's easy to work with and pull through the boat.

http://www.genuinedealz.com/12-awg-gauge-2-conductor-marine-wire-duplex-flat

Ghetto is a matter of opinion, I live in the south remember :biggrin: Unused wires hanging around looks ghetto to me. I'm not saying I'm surely doing it, just want to know if doubling them up would be sufficient for the demands of the pump, like running another 4ga power wire to the starter from the battery rather than ripping it out and installing a single 00.

As for the tanks, I know a guy that's done it on his 05 VLX and would never think about putting them back in, plus I recall a few threads on here about it. I think my 1100's would conform to the space better and fill up more. I'll be eliminating 4 aerator pumps and hoses. All in all I doubt I'll lose much total capacity by taking out those tanks. I would be removing that whole carpeted panel and the bottom is finished off like the bilge so it would be easier to clean and less carpet for mold and mildew. More space when the bags are empty. Wouldn't need 2 more switches, between my gates, stereo, and ballast I almost feel like I should write a manual on how to operate my boat :crazy: This would at least keep my ballast to the original 4 switches. I plan to own this boat for a long time so I'm not worried about possibly devaluing it by ripping out the tanks. Remember most are not like us TMC'ers, I envision the conversation gong something like this:

Me: It has the 400HP Hammerhead

Buyer: So that's a v8 right?

Me: Yes sir.

Buyer: I bet it's fast!

Me: Uh yeah, and I plumbed in 1100's in the rears for wakeboarding and surfing.

Buyer: So it does have ballast and I can just flip these here switches and wait for the bags to fill and drain while I sip my Strohs'?

Me: You got it buddy.

Now are you guys telling me I don't need to vent either? Is there an audbile change in the pump as it struggles to fill when it's slammed full?

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Ghetto is a matter of opinion, I live in the south remember :biggrin: Unused wires hanging around looks ghetto to me. I'm not saying I'm surely doing it, just want to know if doubling them up would be sufficient for the demands of the pump, like running another 4ga power wire to the starter from the battery rather than ripping it out and installing a single 00.

As for the tanks, I know a guy that's done it on his 05 VLX and would never think about putting them back in, plus I recall a few threads on here about it. I think my 1100's would conform to the space better and fill up more. I'll be eliminating 4 aerator pumps and hoses. All in all I doubt I'll lose much total capacity by taking out those tanks. I would be removing that whole carpeted panel and the bottom is finished off like the bilge so it would be easier to clean and less carpet for mold and mildew. More space when the bags are empty. Wouldn't need 2 more switches, between my gates, stereo, and ballast I almost feel like I should write a manual on how to operate my boat :crazy: This would at least keep my ballast to the original 4 switches. I plan to own this boat for a long time so I'm not worried about possibly devaluing it by ripping out the tanks. Remember most are not like us TMC'ers, I envision the conversation gong something like this:

Me: It has the 400HP Hammerhead

Buyer: So that's a v8 right?

Me: Yes sir.

Buyer: I bet it's fast!

Me: Uh yeah, and I plumbed in 1100's in the rears for wakeboarding and surfing.

Buyer: So it does have ballast and I can just flip these here switches and wait for the bags to fill and drain while I sip my Strohs'?

Me: You got it buddy.

Now are you guys telling me I don't need to vent either? Is there an audbile change in the pump as it struggles to fill when it's slammed full?

You should vent. Its not so much about trapped air and you wont hear the pump change when the sac is "full". What you will hear, is fiberglass crackling.

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Mine would still break fiberglass with the vent line attached. That's how my ski locker is set-up (1 inch fill and 1 inch drain) and I've blow the locker latch apart once with the bag....now we carefully watch it. The vent line works fine and pushes water out but those pumps can sure build pressure regardless.

Any yes, if you don't vent you'll need to burp the bags on the first fill of the day (unless you don't unhook the bags). If you leave them hooked up in the bottom of the lockers they will stay like a vacuum sealed bag after draining.

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Ghetto is a matter of opinion, I live in the south remember :biggrin: Unused wires hanging around looks ghetto to me. I'm not saying I'm surely doing it, just want to know if doubling them up would be sufficient for the demands of the pump, like running another 4ga power wire to the starter from the battery rather than ripping it out and installing a single 00.

As for the tanks, I know a guy that's done it on his 05 VLX and would never think about putting them back in, plus I recall a few threads on here about it. I think my 1100's would conform to the space better and fill up more. I'll be eliminating 4 aerator pumps and hoses. All in all I doubt I'll lose much total capacity by taking out those tanks. I would be removing that whole carpeted panel and the bottom is finished off like the bilge so it would be easier to clean and less carpet for mold and mildew. More space when the bags are empty. Wouldn't need 2 more switches, between my gates, stereo, and ballast I almost feel like I should write a manual on how to operate my boat :crazy: This would at least keep my ballast to the original 4 switches. I plan to own this boat for a long time so I'm not worried about possibly devaluing it by ripping out the tanks. Remember most are not like us TMC'ers, I envision the conversation gong something like this:

Me: It has the 400HP Hammerhead

Buyer: So that's a v8 right?

Me: Yes sir.

Buyer: I bet it's fast!

Me: Uh yeah, and I plumbed in 1100's in the rears for wakeboarding and surfing.

Buyer: So it does have ballast and I can just flip these here switches and wait for the bags to fill and drain while I sip my Strohs'?

Me: You got it buddy.

Now are you guys telling me I don't need to vent either? Is there an audbile change in the pump as it struggles to fill when it's slammed full?

I'm not sure if the doubled up gauge of both wires would be sufficient or not but I would avoid doubling up wires. I have had doubled up wires cause problems with solenoids in my line of work. It usually works fine for a couple years before problems start. I'm not sure these pumps would have the same type of issues but if it were my project I would not do it.

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