Oil change at the end of season or beginning

[Michigan boarder]

Not really 85. The oil will always drain back to the sump. Its an open system and there is no way to maintain the residual pressure needed to maintain prime. An inlet check valve would be needed on the inlet side of the pump to achieve what your talking about and I have never seen and engine that had one. There would be too much danger for the check valve to become plugged.

You realize that the oil pump isn't submerged in the sump and that there is a pick up tube that carries oil to the pump. really it only takes a minute for all the oil to drain back down through the pump and down the pick up tube and into the sump.

The important part is that the gears in the oil pump maintain some coating that allows the pump to get some sort of suction asap. Even if I took apart an engine that sat for 5 years, there would be oil coating the gears.

I hate the fact that we are reduced to these kind of posts during this time of the year. No offense, Lance, I read it entirely and will continue to do so and even post similar thoughts....until spring........

[85 Barefoot]

Not really 85. The oil will always drain back to the sump. Its an open system and there is no way to maintain the residual pressure needed to maintain prime. An inlet check valve would be needed on the inlet side of the pump to achieve what your talking about and I have never seen and engine that had one. There would be too much danger for the check valve to become plugged.

You realize that the oil pump isn't submerged in the sump and that there is a pick up tube that carries oil to the pump. really it only takes a minute for all the oil to drain back down through the pump and down the pick up tube and into the sump.

The important part is that the gears in the oil pump maintain some coating that allows the pump to get some sort of suction asap. Even if I took apart an engine that sat for 5 years, there would be oil coating the gears.

Yes, I understand just fine, and I'm using layman's descriptions of course.

Would you not agree that after an oil change the system takes a few seconds to build pressure due to air and voids in the oil circ system?

Would you not agree that that lag time is significantly reduced the next time you start it (and thereafter)?

Would you not agree that there will be more residual oil film on parts an hours after shutdown than months?

...see what I'm getting at?

I'm not saying upon startup in the spring pressure is instant, I am saying its significantly less than the 1st post-change startup. And after months as opposed to a few hours, wear is significantly more during a post storage start. So shouldn't all efforts be made to keep that prime time as low as possible?

yall can do what you want but I like seeing that needed pop to 60 immediately, especially after a long layup, which won't happen if you haven't started the engine since an oil change.

[Lance B. Johnson]

I hate the fact that we are reduced to these kind of posts during this time of the year. No offense, Lance, I read it entirely and will continue to do so and even post similar thoughts....until spring........

Not sure what you mean? In no way was my post meant to be inflammatory.

[ahopkins22LSV]

I think he just doesn't want to think about winterizing

[85 Barefoot]

I do fill the filter, but fail to see what difference it makes if I start it right after the oil change or on 6 months.

You've never had your alarms go off your first start after an oil change? never noticed it takes up to 10 seconds for your pressure to build?

[Michigan boarder]

Not sure what you mean? In no way was my post meant to be inflammatory.

I think he just doesn't want to think about winterizing

I totally did not think it was inflammatory. I'm just depressed that we have a 2 page thread (likely to be 3) about the timeliness of oil changes, instead of all the other fun stuff when we have boats on the water.

[formulaben]

I hate the fact that we are reduced to these kind of posts during this time of the year.

I see a sig update in my future

Edited October 13, 2015 by formulaben

[1HELLUVALIFE]

Yes, haha this is a depressing time of year as the water and air temps are quickly dropping. Honestly I don't see any negatives to leaving "old" oil in the block until next year. If you aren't due for an oil change then you likely only have around 25 hours on the "old" oil, so how bad can the condition of the oil be?

[oldjeep]

You've never had your alarms go off your first start after an oil change? never noticed it takes up to 10 seconds for your pressure to build?

No, I've never seen an oil pressure alarm in anything after an oil change.

[Michigan boarder]

I see a sig update in my future

This spring you need to make yourself a "glass half full" kind of guy!!

[Lance B. Johnson]

Yes, I understand just fine, and I'm using layman's descriptions of course.

Would you not agree that after an oil change the system takes a few seconds to build pressure due to air and voids in the oil circ system?

Would you not agree that that lag time is significantly reduced the next time you start it (and thereafter)?

Would you not agree that there will be more residual oil film on parts an hours after shutdown than months?

...see what I'm getting at?

I'm not saying upon startup in the spring pressure is instant, I am saying its significantly less than the 1st post-change startup. And after months as opposed to a few hours, wear is significantly more during a post storage start. So shouldn't all efforts be made to keep that prime time as low as possible?

yall can do what you want but I like seeing that needed pop to 60 immediately, especially after a long layup, which won't happen if you haven't started the engine since an oil change.

What I am saying is that no matter what, any engine that has sat 3 months is going to go through the same process no matter if you ran it after the OC or not.

No, the lag time will be the same if you run it or not (providing you fill the filter before installing it)

I don't really understand this: If you change the oil in October and run it, or just change the oil in October after running it last week end I fail to see that there would be a difference. Besides, I have disassembled lots of engines that have been sitting for extended times and parts are always coated in oil. We are talking internal parts like bearings.

And finally, I really don't follow this. Long layup is long layup. Much of the oil ends up in the crankcase either way, starting after oil change, or not. There is something fundamental your missing here......but I am failing to see what it is to help you understand this.

[85 Barefoot]

LBJ, next time you start your boat, watch how quick your pressure builds. Then, next time you change your oil watch the oil pressure when you start it. It will be significantly slower and may take even 10 seconds, especially with remote oil filters. Then compare that with how quickly pressure builds after a layoff, which is almost as instantaneous as in season starts. The biggest "delay-causing" condition comes post oil change.

All my point is, is why start your engine dry after it hasn't run for months if you can avoid it? And furthermore, if people are going to subscribe to the acid theory of why oil should be changed prior to layup, why not circulate it? Why just put fresh oil in the pan and not get it worked up in the areas that matter?

Edited October 13, 2015 by 85 Barefoot

[Woodski]

After the storage period, spin the engine over (pull the coil wire) until you see oil pressure on the gauge and if particularly concerned, pull the plugs so no cylinder pressure is present. The dead zone is mainly due to the non-full or empty oil filter, the only oil drained during an oil change is the unpressurized oil in the pan and the pressurized oil in the filter.

[85 Barefoot]

After the storage period, spin the engine over (pull the coil wire) until you see oil pressure on the gauge and if particularly concerned, pull the plugs so no cylinder pressure is present. The dead zone is mainly due to the non-full or empty oil filter, the only oil drained during an oil change is the unpressurized oil in the pan and the pressurized oil in the filter.

I agree and that's a good hybrid solution. That's what I do with a classic car that sits months between runnings.

[Fman]

I have a question, does filling the filter with oil prior to installation actually do anything? Or is it a waste of time?

[85 Barefoot]

I have a question, does filling the filter with oil prior to installation actually do anything? Or is it a waste of time?

IT cuts down on the amount of time it takes to get positive oil pressure. Otherwise, it has to fill first before any pressure can be attained.

[twitchee2]

I have a question, does filling the filter with oil prior to installation actually do anything? Or is it a waste of time?

It just means the oil filter takes less time to fill up. If a filter is empty, it has to fill before it gets pumped to the engine components. it is better to fill it before installing, however I am sure many thousands of cars on the road today have ever had the filter pre-filled and run without issues for years.

[Sixball]

A lot of work has been done with oils so they leave a lubricating film on parts. That was one of the big differences in the early synthetic oils. They had a poor film after sitting. Not so today from what I have seen.

[Fman]

Ok, one last question, some filters are larger than others that fit a vehicle or even a boat engine. Does a larger filter give any more protection or cleaning properties over a smaller filter? Is it overkill with the larger filters? Assuming oil is changed at proper intervals.

[MLA]

Ok, one last question, some filters are larger than others that fit a vehicle or even a boat engine. Does a larger filter give any more protection or cleaning properties over a smaller filter? Is it overkill with the larger filters? Assuming oil is changed at proper intervals.

i always like to use the longer filter, providing it fits without too much hassle. It holds a little extra oil and filtering element. Its one of those things not worth losing sleep over through.

[shawndoggy]

Ok, one last question, some filters are larger than others that fit a vehicle or even a boat engine. Does a larger filter give any more protection or cleaning properties over a smaller filter? Is it overkill with the larger filters? Assuming oil is changed at proper intervals.

This whole thread is about overkill and its various degrees.

[1HELLUVALIFE]

This whole thread is about overkill and its various degrees.

ha ha, I wonder if everybody is this particular with their vehicles,

[oldjeep]

Ok, one last question, some filters are larger than others that fit a vehicle or even a boat engine. Does a larger filter give any more protection or cleaning properties over a smaller filter? Is it overkill with the larger filters? Assuming oil is changed at proper intervals.

Larger filters have more filter media and are harder to clog. Great on a jeep that operates in a dirty environment, not really a factor on a boat.

[MadMan]

Ok, one last question, some filters are larger than others that fit a vehicle or even a boat engine. Does a larger filter give any more protection or cleaning properties over a smaller filter? Is it overkill with the larger filters? Assuming oil is changed at proper intervals.

One other benefit from running the longer filter is it can flow more oil with less pressure drop. The only time this may become relevant is when starting a cold engine (especially with straight weight oil like I run) it is possible for the oil bypass valve to open and bypass the filter. Since there is less pressure drop with the bigger filter, it's less likely to happen. This is all conjecture though......

[Levi900RR]

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