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Prop for 6.2 Raptor?


whatshesaid

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4 hours ago, teamerickson said:

Buy one! Then let me try it! ;)

I did buy a '17, supposed to be here this week ?

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Thanks for the report. I run the #2401 15x17.75 on my 2017 23 LSV, but it does seem to consume more gas. One day on a friend's 2017 23 LSV with the 2277 15x15.25 prop and the next day in my boat, and I noticed that his seem to do surprisingly well on gas. 

If I get time, I will check to see RPMs with the 2401, but I know that sacked out we seldom go over 3300 RPMs up to 11 mph when surfing.

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acceleration is great! It seems to still have lots of low end tq. The real test will be when i have a boat full of people, and we are surfing with full ballast. Worst case i drain a few hundred LBS out of the rear, or put the old prop back on it.

I feel very happy with the prop change.

bbattiste247, is your 2017 transmission 1.76?

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35 minutes ago, whatshesaid said:

acceleration is great! It seems to still have lots of low end tq. The real test will be when i have a boat full of people, and we are surfing with full ballast. Worst case i drain a few hundred LBS out of the rear, or put the old prop back on it.

I feel very happy with the prop change.

bbattiste247, is your 2017 transmission 1.76?

Yes. I am pretty sure they didn't make a change from 2016. My boat is a lot quieter than a 2016 though.

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I don't know what the changes are. My 2017 is much quieter than the 2016 I had. Someone said the transmission or vdrive is different.

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22 hours ago, whatshesaid said:

The boat feels a lot better cruising, @ 22mph its 450rpm less, and this make all the deference in the world! A very common surf speed for us is 10.8mph and its 600rpm less, not sure it this is gonna hurt fuel consumption or make it better, but the engine still has power left over so im hopeful that it will not hurt fuel consumption. New prop also added almost 3mph, i was just looking a the mph gage on the boat also, no GPS.

I also tested the stock prop#2249 with full ballast 3500#, and she did get on plan with no wedge, and then I used the lift on the wedge and it made things a lot easier.

I did not try this test with the new prop, just didn't want to put the engine thru that. But i will say i have no doubt it could get the job done with the wedge in the lift mode.

I also only have 3/4" from the hull of the boat, and i do not see any damage, so FEAR NOT!!

I think the ACME #2849  15.50 X 15.50  .105cup is money for how i use my boat.

I also considered just having more cup added to the old stock prop, but i think it would only give me 1 more MPH.

Wondering if you consulted ACME about this prop? Have they changed there stance on 1 inch minimum clearance?

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14 hours ago, teamerickson said:

Wondering if you consulted ACME about this prop? Have they changed there stance on 1 inch minimum clearance?

In this very informative book, Dave Gerr recommends a minimum of 15%, which is ~2".  This is not based on gel coat burn though. It's more of the prop not being shrouded too much to allow it to operate efficiently.

https://www.amazon.com/Propeller-Handbook-Installing-Understanding-Propellers/dp/0071381767

 

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I was very concerned about burning the gel coat, but they thought it was going to be okay on this application so i took a chance. I plan on keeping an eye on it as well, but so far so good. Here is a long reply from Acme. Enjoy!

Jeff,

 

This is outstanding information. Very well done and much appreciated.

I have forwarded this to the other guys here, and we will save it for future reference on similar applications.

Information like this helps us to dial things in for better performance, efficiency, speeds, optimum RPM, etc..

 

One very important thing that I must continually stress… Some people are not aware of how critical the gear reduction is in determining optimum propeller diameter. A 15.5” or 16” dia. prop may be, generally speaking, the optimum diameter for a 1.76:1 gear ratio (also depending on the size of the boat, the amount of horsepower/torque of the engine, the rated RPM of the engine, the amount of ballast in the boat, the elevation at which the boat is used, and certain other factors), but this same diameter will probably be overkill in most cases for a 1.5:1 gear.

 

This is general, “ballpark” sort of information, that I’d like to share with you, because there are also other contributing factors such as the amount of engine horsepower, including factors that I’ve already mentioned… However, as a guideline, if we’re talking a boat that is being fairly heavily ballasted (in which the wedge is also a factor, if used), and the boat is most likely being used predominantly for wakeboarding / wakesurfing, and assuming we are looking to optimize RPM, performance, propeller efficiency, engine efficiency, fuel efficiency, and so forth… Following are some helpful tips / guidelines that may be of use to you (and others on the forum) (at least as a starting point in seeking the best or most appropriate propeller size):

 

(some older boats, 1:1 gear ratio): optimum propeller diameter for wakeboarding / wakesurfing is likely about 12.5” to 14” diameter… (but again, just be aware that the number of blades, amount of blade area, and amount of cup, among other factors in the prop, also have some impact on this)

1.23:1 gear ratio --- optimum propeller diameter for best power/acceleration (i.e. wakeboarding/wakesurfing/added ballast)… 13.25” to 14.5” dia.

1.48:1, 1.49:1, 1.51:1 gear ratios --- optimum propeller diameter is typically about 14.0 to 15.0”

1.72:1 / 1.76:1 gear ratio --- optimum propeller diameter is typically about 15.0” to 16.0”

2:1 gear ratio --- optimum propeller diameter is typically about 16.5” to 18”

 

Concerning the nature of these applications, it’s important to verify clearance, and to maximize / optimize propeller diameter based largely upon the gear ratio. But too much diameter can be overkill / not good. Also, if/when there are diameter limitations, but the configuration, power, gear, and amount of ballast are “desiring” more diameter, then additional cup in a prop can sometimes help to mimic additional diameter.

 

Please keep in mind that if the user’s performance objectives are quite different than these aforementioned, then in most cases, the approach to sizing the propeller can be quite different. For example, what if a person rarely adds much ballast, and maybe he or she doesn’t ever use the wedge, and perhaps he/she wants to barefoot with the boat occasionally?… then the better propeller choice might be one of slightly less diameter and more pitch. Nevertheless, with deeper gear reductions and heavily ballasted boats, optimizing propeller diameter is not only important regarding power and efficiency and lowering operating RPM, but it is also important in terms of achieving better speeds.   

 

Regarding necessary amount of tip clearance between the prop and the bottom of the boat (closest point): It varies somewhat, depending on the horsepower, torque, RPM of the engine, etc… I’m not 100% certain on the exact reason why, but from my experience it seems clear that more powerful, more torquey engines require more tip clearance between the prop and the bottom of the boat, to avoid burn. Perhaps it also has to do with rated RPM / WOT RPM, gear ratio, the hull itself, and/or how the boat is being used most of the time… It’s not set in stone… But let’s just say that the general starting preference is about ¾” tip clearance or more (in many/most cases this will usually work) … Yet if someone is running a 550/575 supercharged engine, then ideally I’d like to see at least 1” inch or more. (again, keep in mind… more tip clearance is better, nicer, safer… but if one has to sacrifice too much diameter relative to the configuration, they will likely be sacrificing power, performance and efficiency)

I’ve seen or heard of boats/hulls with standard 5.7L, V8 engines (maybe 325 hp or so), with something like a 1.5:1 gear ratio, get away with ½” tip clearance, and they didn’t seem to experience any issues whatsoever. But then I’ve also seen or heard of boats with 450 to 500+ horsepower engines, experience burning even though they had 5/8” tip clearance or more.

Years ago, when I first started doing this kind of work, I heard the recommendation was 15% of the propeller diameter for tip clearance (perhaps more so on the bigger boats, e.g., sportfish and pleasure yachts, running much larger props in most cases). Later I heard 10% of the propeller diameter (for tip clearance) was the recommendation. Well, today, at least concerning inboard wakeboard / wakesurf, boats, those “recommended guidelines” were shattered probably nearly a decade ago… because I’ve seen numerous boats coming directly from OEMs with ¾” tip clearance, and sometimes less, using 13.5” to 15.0” dia. props.

 

Anyway, Jeff, I’ve had so many emails and phone calls today, I don’t even know if I’m making any sense any more. But I thought some of this information might be helpful, or of interest to you.

 

Thanks again,       

 

Jim Thelen

www.acmemarine.com

E: [email protected]

PH: 888-661-2263 or (231) 592-8711

FX: (231) 592-0471 

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On 4/21/2017 at 3:36 PM, bbattiste247 said:

Please report back how you like it. I run the 15x17.75 and it is a little over pitched, but it runs very low RPM's and WOT is about 42mph.

Is that the 2401?  I am looking for an extra extra prop and was trying to find something in between the 2277 and the 2401.  I thought I remember hearing about an OJ prop that wasn't really given a model number yet that was close to a 2277 but had just a little more pitch that lowered rpms a little bit didn't sacrifice much power. I understand that OJ and Acme use a little difference measuring method so props from the 2 companies that have the same measurements might be a little different. 

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On 5/1/2017 at 7:29 PM, 2THEL8K said:

Please remind me again, is the gearing different from '16 to '17?

yes on VTX and 21 VLX (but its new obviously).  I thought they alos run the 1.5 in supercharged boats but not sure.

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3 hours ago, Lees23 said:

Is that the 2401?  I am looking for an extra extra prop and was trying to find something in between the 2277 and the 2401.  I thought I remember hearing about an OJ prop that wasn't really given a model number yet that was close to a 2277 but had just a little more pitch that lowered rpms a little bit didn't sacrifice much power. I understand that OJ and Acme use a little difference measuring method so props from the 2 companies that have the same measurements might be a little different. 

Yes, that is the 2401. I run it on my boat and I like it, but it feels a little under powered. I am considering the 2277 which seems to work well on the 410 Raptor.

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I have reached out to Eric at OJ and he has offered either a 15" x 16.25 (825) or a 15" x 16.5 (829).  I guess I would like to know the difference in how they are measured.  I would like my spare to be different.. it would be nice to have a light load prop and a prop for lots of ppl. 

 

I habenent even looked at how to change them, is this something that can be done easily when the boat is on the trailer?

Edited by Lees23
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5 minutes ago, Lees23 said:

I have reached out to Eric at OJ and he has offered either a 15" x 16.25 (825) or a 15" x 16.5 (829).  I guess I would like to know the difference in how they are measured.  I would like my spare to be different.. it would be nice to have a light load prop and a prop for lots of ppl. 

 

I habenent even looked at how to change them, is this something that can be done easily when the boat is on the trailer?

they are measured the same.  the second number is the distance it will travel for one revolution.  So, the 829 is a (slightly) steeper prop.

you'll need a puller.  OJ will sell you that too.  Back the nut off but don't remove, spin prop so keyway is up, attach puller, pop will break loose, remove nut, remove prop, reverse process.  be sure the prop is good and seated and don't forget the key!

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1 hour ago, whatshesaid said:

After my testing I would not consider any more than 15.50 pitch if you surf.

Any more details you can offer? If I'm following along correctly you went from the speed to the torque prop and then did the 15.5 which is in between. Did the 15/5 drop your RPMs loaded and surfing from the 2249 torque prop? 

Edited by WakeSS
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1 hour ago, whatshesaid said:

After my testing I would not consider any more than 15.50 pitch if you surf.

I have the 2277 with my Raptor 410 and it kills everything, almost. I want a bit more torque when I surf. What prop would do this? I am not looking for a huge difference, just be able to add another 4-500 lbs lead and keep it at 36-3700 rpm.The 2277 is alllmost enough. 

Thanks in advance.

Jerald

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17 hours ago, ConnollyCrew said:

I have the 2277 with my Raptor 410 and it kills everything, almost. I want a bit more torque when I surf. What prop would do this? I am not looking for a huge difference, just be able to add another 4-500 lbs lead and keep it at 36-3700 rpm.The 2277 is alllmost enough. 

Thanks in advance.

Jerald

I'm thinking about a 2849 or 2847. Those props are too new to know for sure. But, some of the posts in this thread like the 2849. 

Edited by teamerickson
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3 hours ago, teamerickson said:

I'm think about a 2849 or 2847. Those props are too new to know for sure. But, some of the posts in this thread like the 2849. 

Compared to the 2277 the 2849 gives you a 1/2" diameter increase  and drops the pitch from 15.75" to 15.5" and the 2847 gives you the same 1/2" diameter increase and further drops the pitch to 15".  Care to explain how these 3 props will perform differently in surfing and cruising applications?

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14 hours ago, Lees23 said:

Compared to the 2277 the 2849 gives you a 1/2" diameter increase  and drops the pitch from 15.75" to 15.5" and the 2847 gives you the same 1/2" diameter increase and further drops the pitch to 15".  Care to explain how these 3 props will perform differently in surfing and cruising applications?

I currently have the 2277 on the boat with a 2249 as backup/spare. I'm happy with the 2277 but would like a tad more. Most of my boating is around 500 elevation. It does fine surfing but sometimes I wakeboard heavy. I'm definitely not the prop expert but taking with someone it seems as the 2849 might be very similar to the 2277 with a little lower RPMs. I think the 2847 would give more pull then the 2277 with similar RPMs. So I'm leaning towards the 2847. This is all kind of new. The general consensus was keep a minimum of 1 inch prop clearence. 

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22 hours ago, WakeSS said:

Any more details you can offer? If I'm following along correctly you went from the speed to the torque prop and then did the 15.5 which is in between. Did the 15/5 drop your RPMs loaded and surfing from the 2249 torque prop? 

Stock prop was the TQ prop #2249 (top speed 36.1mph), and it was to aggressive.

So I went to a larger prop, and not as aggressive #2849 (top speed 38.9mph)

 

 

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2 hours ago, teamerickson said:

I currently have the 2277 on the boat with a 2249 as backup/spare. I'm happy with the 2277 but would like a tad more. Most of my boating is around 500 elevation. It does fine surfing but sometimes I wakeboard heavy. I'm definitely not the prop expert but taking with someone it seems as the 2849 might be very similar to the 2277 with a little lower RPMs. I think the 2847 would give more pull then the 2277 with similar RPMs. So I'm leaning towards the 2847. This is all kind of new. The general consensus was keep a minimum of 1 inch prop clearence. 

 

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