23 MXZ coming?

[malibu.c.c]

also heard all new model ..not mxz line up .. amazing performance ..huge wakes.. nov release..

g killer from all i have heard ..

[Sunscape fan]

I wonder if Nautique is looking for a LSV killer....hmmm....if the G boats were so great, wouldn't they be outselling the LSV? I'm not saying the G isn't a nice boat...I just don't think Malibu needs to have ANOTHER model to compete with the G boats.

[malibu.c.c]

malibu needs a big boat ..i dont mean long like the 25LSV... i mean big like the G ..

there is a market for it and malibu should be in it ~

[JoeA]

I truly believe the G competitor will arrive in November. Yes, the LSV sells very well but why not sell more boats? Get ready........it's coming.

[txgator]

Anyone have any new info on the boat or timeline?

Edited September 20, 2015 by txgator

[JoeA]

Nobody knows for sure but rumors point to November.

[saidainc]

I wonder if Nautique is looking for a LSV killer....hmmm....if the G boats were so great, wouldn't they be outselling the LSV? I'm not saying the G isn't a nice boat...I just don't think Malibu needs to have ANOTHER model to compete with the G boats.

They are probably not outselling the LSV because they stay at 140-150k firm and they burn a ton more fuel due to displacement

[TenTwentyOne]

I'd be curious if the G23 was selling fairly close to the 23 LSV. If you figure in-

1)Axis is close to 40% of production.

2)While the 23 LSV is the most popular Malibu..... Malibu still has a couple other very popular models.

3)Malibu has more models than Nautique.

4)Last I heard, Nautique was putting out better than 800 G23s a year. 5X as many as the G25, and 3x as many as the G21. I don't think they are pumping out very many 210s or 230s.

Nautique doesn't sell a lot of boats compared to Bu/Axis, but they sell a ton of G23s.

[DarkSide]

800 would make the G23 the #1 model in the nation. According to Malibu financials. They sold 3404 boats in FY 2015. 67.7% was Malibu, and of that 225 were from Australia. So Tennessee produced 2080 Malibu branded products. That would mean for 23 LSV to sell more than 800 units it would have to be 2 out of every 5 sales, or 40% of BU's volume. I think that is incredibly optimistic. 20% maybe, but they sold a lot of 22 VLX and a lot of 22/24 MXZ this year also.

So if the 800 number is accurate, that would explain why the "G Killer" is so important.

From Mastercraft earnings. They are #2 only 6-10 points behind the leader (BU). Axis is #4 selling just over 1100 boats. So #3 has to be Nautique, with MC being 6-10 points below. They are 600-1000 boats behind BU annually placing them best case 1500 boats per year. That would place Nautique somewhere between 1100 and 1400 boats per year. That would mean G23 would have to be more than 50% of total production. That seams way too optimistic. I would guess probably closer to 500 G23, best case. Even at that volume that puts G23 at a minimum of 35% off thier volume.

Edited September 21, 2015 by DarkSide

[IXFE]

I don't believe the 800 figure, especially not from a guy who thinks 32.3% is close to 40%.

[TenTwentyOne]

800 would make the G23 the #1 model in the nation. According to Malibu financials. They sold 3404 boats in FY 2015. 67.7% was Malibu, and of that 225 were from Australia. So Tennessee produced 2080 Malibu branded products. That would mean for 23 LSV to sell more than 800 units it would have to be 2 out of every 5 sales, or 40% of BU's volume. I think that is incredibly optimistic. 20% maybe, but they sold a lot of 22 VLX and a lot of 22/24 MXZ this year also.

So if the 800 number is accurate, that would explain why the "G Killer" is so important.

Ya, that is what I was kinda thinking, although, I wouldn't be surprised if the 23LSV is close to that. They certainly sell a lot of VLXs and MXZs though too.

If I had to guess (Just purely a guess), Nautique sales are probably something like-

1600-1800 boats total.

700-800 G23

150 G25

250-300 G21

200 210

200 230

50 200 sport

50-100 200 ski

[TenTwentyOne]

I don't believe the 800 figure, especially not from a guy who thinks 32.3% is close to 40%.

Just regurgitating what I was told at the Malibu factory tour last year. Apologies....

[IXFE]

Just regurgitating what I was told at the Malibu factory tour last year. Apologies....

I'm just giving you chit... probably should have made a smiley face but the mobile version doesn't allow it.

I actually follow your logic and think it's sound.

[DarkSide]

No doubt the G23 is a winner for Nautique, this also makes it more reasonable that they updated the G series this year. With a target on your back, you have to keep improving or eventually others will overtake you. Arguably they need the G's to continue to sell Very well or they would become irrelevant.

There is not a huge Pavati killer following....yet

[Chattwake]

Just so you know, domestically, these are the numbers for some boats in the 23ft segment comparing 2014/2015 (as of June 30th):

Description.........................2015..........2014.......2015 Market Share ........2014 Market Share

All......................................2,492.........2,045......100.00%.......................100.00%

Malibu - Wakesetter LSV......627...........543.........25.20%.........................26.60%

Nautique - G23...................365............322.........14.60%.........................15.70%

Moomba - Mojo..................286............179.........11.50%..........................8.80%

MasterCraft - X-30..............272............264.........10.90%..........................12.90%

Nautique - 230...................130............157.........5.20%............................7.70%

Edited September 22, 2015 by Chattwake

[DarkSide]

Chat,

Wow excellent info! I am surprised the X23 was not on the list. I didn't think it was a huge seller, but thought it would be a bigger seller than the 230.

[TenTwentyOne]

X23 sold out its 2015 production in 3 months from its release......

Chatt, where is that info available? Is there more data on different models?

Edited September 22, 2015 by TenTwentyOne

[bamabonners]

Just so you know, domestically, these are the numbers for some boats in the 23ft segment comparing 2014/2015 (as of June 30th):

Description.........................2015..........2014.......2015 Market Share ........2014 Market Share

All......................................2,492.........2,045......100.00%.......................100.00%

Malibu - Wakesetter LSV......627...........543.........25.20%.........................26.60%

Nautique - G23...................365............322.........14.60%.........................15.70%

Moomba - Mojo..................286............179.........11.50%..........................8.80%

MasterCraft - X-30..............272............264.........10.90%..........................12.90%

Nautique - 230...................130............157.........5.20%............................7.70%

How can you sell more boats in 2015 than 2014, but lose market share? Its all about how much increase versus the competition. Moomba stole some market share and had a major increase from the previous year, despite not selling as many boats. Its amazing to me how much impact you can have by just selling 90 more boats than last year. Just shows how small of a market it really is.

Malibu LSV sales increased 15%

G23 increased 13%

Mojo increased 60%

x30 increased 3%

230 decreased 17%

[TenTwentyOne]

From Mastercraft earnings. They are #2 only 6-10 points behind the leader (BU). Axis is #4 selling just over 1100 boats. So #3 has to be Nautique, with MC being 6-10 points below. They are 600-1000 boats behind BU annually placing them best case 1500 boats per year. That would place Nautique somewhere between 1100 and 1400 boats per year. That would mean G23 would have to be more than 50% of total production. That seams way too optimistic. I would guess probably closer to 500 G23, best case. Even at that volume that puts G23 at a minimum of 35% off thier volume.

According to the MCBC S1 2014 production was 2200 boats. 2015 production data was only completed for first half of year (which is the slower half of the year), and was showing over 1200 units. If things went normally like they do, (based on prior year offset of first half/second half sales) MC should have landed in the neighborhood of 2500-2600 units for the fy 2015. Which should indicate that CC is producing in the neighborhood of 1800+ units. With the other current CC offerings, I don't have a hard time believing the G23 is nearly 50% of their sales.

That said, chatt's data shows a completely different story on the G23 unit sales. Only problem with that, is- what the heck is CC selling so much of, if it's not the G23?? According to the local dealer, CC sells less than 100 ski boats a year, and even less of the long forgotten sport 200.....And why are they doing a huge plant expansion to increase production beyond 2000 units per year??

Also. I'm a little confused by your layout of market share numbers......The market share data for Malibu includes Axis. They aren't seperated.

Edited September 22, 2015 by TenTwentyOne

[DarkSide]

The numbers don't add up! Maybe i have wrong data!

Example. Malibu claims roughly 31% market share. They produced just over 3400 boats, making the total market just under 11,000 boats. Axis produced 32% of Malibu's total production. Giving Malibu roughly 21% market share and axis 10% market share. If MC is 6-10% behind the leader, that would give them 11-16% of the market. If MC was selling more than Malibu without AXIS they would have a legitimate claim to #1 not #2.

As they are claiming #2 they have to be selling less than BU. Which sold 2300 boats.

[DarkSide]

The other thing that surprises me from Chat's data. Is that would make the 23 LSV 27% of BU's sales. I know the 23 is popular, but i did not expect better than 1 in 4. With Bu having 9 models, granted the response series is very small part of the equation. Even with 7 models taking the response out. That is huge! We also know 22 VLX was a success, so that means other boats did not sell well at all. I am guessing 247 and 20 MXZ sold very little.

[TenTwentyOne]

The numbers don't add up! Maybe i have wrong data!

Example. Malibu claims roughly 31% market share. They produced just over 3400 boats, making the total market just under 11,000 boats. Axis produced 32% of Malibu's total production. Giving Malibu roughly 21% market share and axis 10% market share. If MC is 6-10% behind the leader, that would give them 11-16% of the market. If MC was selling more than Malibu without AXIS they would have a legitimate claim to #1 not #2.

As they are claiming #2 they have to be selling less than BU. Which sold 2300 boats.

I think where you are losing track is that Malibu/axis sells a lot more, not just Malibu. Based on the published data, MC and Malibu sell about the same amount of boats. Malibu+axis = 34ish percent of market share. Malibu alone is somewhere around 21-22ish percent of the market share.

[IXFE]

Also, I'm guessing Chatt's data is US sales only.

[Chrisjjbrown]

Just so you know, domestically, these are the numbers for some boats in the 23ft segment comparing 2014/2015 (as of June 30th)

Description.........................2015..........2014.......2015 Market Share ........2014 Market Share

All......................................2,492.........2,045......100.00%.......................100.00%

Malibu - Wakesetter LSV......627...........543.........25.20%.........................26.60%

Nautique - G23...................365............322.........14.60%.........................15.70%

Moomba - Mojo..................286............179.........11.50%..........................8.80%

MasterCraft - X-30..............272............264.........10.90%..........................12.90%

Nautique - 230...................130............157.........5.20%............................7.70%

I think something that is throwing people off as IXFE pointed out is that these numbers are domestic and this also appears to be only comparing market share of 23 foot class boats.

maybe the reason the x-23 might not be in the data is there is it was new in 2015 so nothing to compare too for prior year.

[tn_rider]

Chattwake knows about this new boat. I know he does. Maybe if we all threaten him with his life and tell him we will take the drain plug out of his boat every time we see it he will spill the beans.