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Cory

Oil Change - How important is it to run the engine before?

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Cory

I crossed over the 50 hr mark last weekend and my dash starting flashing a maintenance message on the screen. So, I'm going to change the oil and oil filter.

I have an evacuator pump that sucks the oil out. How important is it for me to run the engine to full temp before changing the oil? Is this just important if you are going to try to let gravity drain the oil out? Is it ok to change the oil on a room temperature engine since I have a pump? Any downside to doing this?

Edited by Cory

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Fman

Cory, I never run it before. The way I look at is I want as much oil to get sucked out of the pan as possible. If you run it before there are two issues. Some of the oil is not in the pan and your filter will be hot along with the oil. The extractor will have no problems extracting that oil at 70-80 degrees room temp.

Just my .02...been doing it this way for seven years now and everyone of my engines passed leak down tests with flying colors.

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Cory

In the past, I was usually doing this oil change either on our lift at our cabin or immediately after taking the boat out of the water at the end of the season. Right now I have the boat at our home, so I'm being lazy and don't wanna pull it out on the driveway to run it off the garden hose. I just wanna do a quick oil change and be done with it. I figure we may only put another 20 hrs on her this season and then I'll be doing another oil change when I winterize her, so I don't wanna put much effort into this oil change.

I think I'm gonna do it at room temp, which being summer in my garage isn't exactly icy cold.

Thanks Fman.

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Cory

I suppose doing it cold means I'll have to add oil when we hit the water since it will draw oil into the tranny cooler and drop the oil level on the dip stick, right?

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oldjeep

I never do, but I just pull the drain line and let it drain into a bucket overnight. I only use my extractor on engines where there is no other option.

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oldjeep

I suppose doing it cold means I'll have to add oil when we hit the water since it will draw oil into the tranny cooler and drop the oil level on the dip stick, right?

Why would there be oil in your tranny cooler? just drain the oil, change the filter and put in the amount of oil listed in the manual.

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Fman

I suppose doing it cold means I'll have to add oil when we hit the water since it will draw oil into the tranny cooler and drop the oil level on the dip stick, right?

What I typically do is change oil and filter then run it on a fake a lake, check for leaks. Let it sit for 15 mins, then recheck the oil level.

It's strange in my 409 it calls for 6 qts of oil with filter change. If I do 6 qts the oil is only half way on the full and low line on dipstick. I have been adding about 1/4 qt more to get it full. Not sure how the 450 is on this.

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Fman

Oh yea, just make sure when you pull the oil filter the gasket comes with it. Doubling a gasket would be catastrophic, it will leak like crazy.

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Ndawg12

I'm hoping there's tranny fluid going through the tranny cooler, not oil. In my experience running on a hose for 15 minutes will not heat up the oil like a few hot laps around the lake so I wouldn't bother, my extractor has no problem pulling room temp oil. Fill it full and add another 1/2 quart to compensate for the lack of oil in the new filter.

Edited by Ndawg12

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Cory

The first oil change on any of my boats has always been a bit of a pain. The dealers do the first oil change for the break in service, then its me from there on out. My dealers have always been great, but they always seem to put the oil filters on too tight... My fingers are cross this time.

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Cory

I'm hoping there's tranny fluid going through the tranny cooler, not oil. In my experience running on a hose for 15 minutes will not heat up the oil like a few hot laps around the lake so I wouldn't bother. Fill it full and add another 1/2 quart to compensate for the lack of oil in the new filter.

Ya, you guys are right... I had a brain fart there. I don't know what I was thinking. Of course, the tranny cooler has the ATF fluid--not engine oil.

As for oil filter, I usually fill the new one 2/3 full.

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oldjeep

The first oil change on any of my boats has always been a bit of a pain. The dealers do the first oil change for the break in service, then its me from there on out. My dealers have always been great, but they always seem to put the oil filters on too tight... My fingers are cross this time.

They seem to get stuck no matter what. I spin on by hand and wind up crushing with a big channel locks to get off every year.

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Cory

What I typically do is change oil and filter then run it on a fake a lake, check for leaks. Let it sit for 15 mins, then recheck the oil level.

It's strange in my 409 it calls for 6 qts of oil with filter change. If I do 6 qts the oil is only half way on the full and low line on dipstick. I have been adding about 1/4 qt more to get it full. Not sure how the 450 is on this.

You are right, I'm gonna need to pull it out to run it on the driveway to make sure there are no issues. I don't wanna find issues at the lake.

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klewislx

Just did my 50 hour service over the weekend as the dealer wanted $728 to do it, yes go ahead and pick yourself up off the floor. It was $200 in parts, only parts in the 50 hours are an oil and filter. The rest of the 50 hour service was checking the tightness of some bolts, etc. So crazy....

I did not run the boat first, it's been hot enough out lately that it had no issue sucking it out with my hand pump.

The filter was a pain on this one, they mounted it up tight against the engine. Kind of defeated the purpose of a remote oil filter. My last boat had it far enough away to have clear access on all sides. This new boat I couldn't get my typical butter dish bucket under it to catch all the oil. I got a bunch of those spill pads that the dealer gave me and just packed them all around the filter to catch the oil.

I am considering next time that I will crack the filter loose, then unbolt the three bolts holding the remote filter bracket to the engine and hold it away while I spin it the rest of the way off, we'll see how that goes.

The filter was on tight from the dealer's 10 hour service, but the socket style oil filter wrench that slides on the bottom worked great.

I always fill up the new filter with some new oil before reinstalling it. It just helps get a faster read on your dipstick as you put the rest in. My 450 took exactly 6 qts as listed and was perfect.

Edited by klewislx

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Cory

Just did my 50 hour service over the weekend as the dealer wanted $728 to do it, yes go ahead and pick yourself up off the floor. It was $200 in parts, only parts in the 50 hours are an oil and filter. The rest of the 50 hour service was checking the tightness of some bolts, etc. So crazy....

I did not run the boat first, it's been hot enough out lately that it had no issue sucking it out with my hand pump.

The filter was a pain on this one, they mounted it up tight against the engine. Kind of defeated the purpose of a remote oil filter. My last boat had it far enough away to have clear access on all sides. This new boat I couldn't get my typical butter dish bucket under it to catch all the oil. I got a bunch of those spill pads that the dealer gave me and just packed them all around the filter to catch the oil.

I am considering next time that I will crack the filter loose, then unbolt the three bolts holding the remote filter bracket to the engine and hold it away while I spin it the rest of the way off, we'll see how that goes.

The filter was on tight from the dealer's 10 hour service, but the socket style oil filter wrench that slides on the bottom worked great.

I always fill up the new filter with some new oil before reinstalling it. It just helps get a faster read on your dipstick as you put the rest in. My 450 took exactly 6 qts as listed and was perfect.

My trick is to get an empty 1 gallon plastic milk/water jug, cut top off with a knife, but preserve the handle. It is thin enough to slide up under and behind the oil filter before the final twist off. Just let the oil filter drop into the container. Almost mess free.

Edited by Cory

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Cory

Klewislx, your dealer never ceases to amaze me. How much was your 10 hr service? Mine was $299.

Edited by Cory

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Fman

Another trick is to use a large zip lock bag to drop the filter in. Seems to work pretty good, I usually throw a couple shop towels under the filter for slop over. Also cory, on the 409 I had to remove the small divider towards back of the engine to gain side access to the oil filter. 450 might be different.

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GreenMan

Like oldjeep, I just drop the drain hose into a drain pan under the trailer overnight. Usually when I do it the engine hasn't been run for weeks or months. There sure as heck isn't any oil still draining from the heads or anything! There's a case to say that some solids, that may otherwise have been in suspension in the just-run oil, are now sitting on the bottom of that sump and won't be swept into the drain hose... Personally, I reckon the filter will have been getting all that stuff out with no probs. Anyway, been doing it this way for about 15 years.

I wouldn't be too worried about doing a test run before launching - about the only thing that can go wrong is the double-gasket issue noted by others. I always wipe clean the filter gasket land before installing the new filter and that's when I can see that there is no old gasket on the block. Filter just goes on firm by hand with a smear of oil on the gasket first- not damn-well-tight-as-I-can-get-it! I pre-fill the filter with oil, too.

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ibelonginprison

I run it just so it drains faster. I also take the time to check for leaks, noises etc. and give it a good once over while it's sitting there in the driveway.

But you don't have to.

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Cory

Another trick is to use a large zip lock bag to drop the filter in. Seems to work pretty good, I usually throw a couple shop towels under the filter for slop over. Also cory, on the 409 I had to remove the small divider towards back of the engine to gain side access to the oil filter. 450 might be different.

The oil filter on the 450 is on the bow side. I haven't studied it, nor have I done the first oil change on it yet, but I remember thinking... gosh that is conveniently positioned. What is going to be more difficult is adding ATF fluid to my tranny. I may need to get a funnel with a long flexible hose. My sea water strainer blocks the tranny dip stick pretty well.

The zip lock bag sounds like a decent trick too. I'll consider that against my milk jug trick this time around.

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Cory

I got a new oil extractor pump from my in-laws for Christmas that I'm eager to give a try. My old one would only hold 4 quarts so I had to stop midway, dump the oil into a container, reconnect and resume. This one:

http://www.amazon.com/Mityvac-7201-Fluid-Evacuator-Plus/dp/B0002SR7TC/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1437685781&sr=8-9&keywords=oil+extractor+pump

is large enough to do the whole engine and it has a valve to reverse pump the oil out of the container. I'm hoping it is mess free. I have brass fittings that I long ago purchased at HD to thread these pumps onto the oil drain hose.

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Cory

Ordered these items on Amazon Prime last night for delivery by Saturday:

Oil Filter: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008YUEM0C?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s02

Oil: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I4E91GI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01 (I purchased two 5Q containers)

(Note: I have the Indmar LS3)

Edited by Cory

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MadMan

the only thing that can go wrong is the double-gasket issue

This is tempting fait.

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klewislx

My trick is to get an empty 1 gallon plastic milk/water jug, cut top off with a knife, but preserve the handle. It is thin enough to slide up under and behind the oil filter before the final twist off. Just let the oil filter drop into the container. Almost mess free.

Could you please try both your milk jug idea and the ziploc idea and report back? There are multiple wire harnesses that are hard up against the filter on the engine side. While I like the sound of the ziploc idea the milk jug might be more rigid to force in there, however the ziploc might be better with the space available below the filter. I know you just mentioned you thought the location was conveinent, I say kinda, you can get to it, but they fell short by packing it tight up against the engine. My last boat was farther off the engine in the same area and had an inch of clearance all the way around it, this one does not.

Klewislx, your dealer never ceases to amaze me. How much was your 10 hr service? Mine was $299.

Tell me about it! For the 50 hour service they wanted $528 labor plus $200 parts, I literally fell out of my chair when I read the email from them. They did my 10 hour service for free, so that was very very nice considering all the fluid changes there. Guess they make up for it after that!

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