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kayakwv

Wetsounds 420 Noise...please help.

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kayakwv

420 installed by local shop has no issues with just the key on, but speakers have a constant engine whine after I start the boat. Whine gets worse with throttle. Shop is going to look at it Friday. Cabin speakers are a whine, Tower speakers are a faint white noise.

1. What should they look at first?

2. Is there any way to turn off the 420, or is it always on when the key is on.

I really can't deal with this noise and we have a 4 day lake trip next week. Got to get it solved asap.

Thanks for any input.

Edited by kayakwv

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wdr

Common ground for all components and shielding the RCA cables from a power source is another preventative measure most will recommend. From what I have been reading on here, the 420 and mine is no exception has an inherent hiss even at rest. Turning down the amp gains will help some and reducing the volume on the high filter on the 420 has reduced it even more for me. The 420 is the middle man from the head unit to the amp so you can't turn it off.

Edited by wdr

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kx250frider617

Literally every boat I've seen that has upgraded the stereo in some way has resulted in a engine noise whine of some sort. Im not sure if its the way malibu runs their RCA cable and power distribution cables, but it's something similar with all of them.

What cured mine, was running high quality RCA's and grounding the heading straight to the battery, vs the distribution block under the dash. Your Equalizer may need the same thing.

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MLA
From what I have been reading on here, the 420 and mine is no exception has an inherent hiss even at rest.

Not at all accurate with the WS-420SQ and 420BT. Not even an issue with the previous 420 gen. It was with the original 420 that was out about 6 years ago. Noise with a 420SQ is going to be either install-induced or a bad component, and not inherent of the product design.

Yes, quality grounds are important, but also the B+ termination of all the audio gear. With even mid level grade RCA cable, noise entering into them from power cables in rare. This is mostly due to the improvements of all electronics over the years. Less stray EMI to get in and less chance of reproducing it if it does.

Amp gain hiss quite different from engine whine that varies with RPM. You need to make sure the amps and EQ gains are set to conservative levels, and then check for engine whine. Engine whine will likely still be there with low gains, but gain his is present when the music is low and does not change between engine off/on or RPM.

To question #2, the EQ should be triggered on and off in the same manor as the amps, via the head-units remote turn-on circuit. So if the head-unit is on, the EQ and amps will be on.

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kayakwv

Update on WS420 problems: noise is still there.

Boat's been at the Stereo shop since Friday. They've tried about everything and have reduced the noise, but its still there. All stereo components are on a common ground isolated to one of the batteries. Power is also all brought from one source. There is no head unit. New RCA cables have been run. The Gains have been lowered. Even with the key out, and stereo running solely off of the battery, there is unwanted noise.

It seems to be isolated to the Bluetooth on the 420. When the 420 is set to Bluetooth, there is a faint whining over low white noise static & When it is switched to Main or Aux, the whine goes away and you just hear the low static. It is heard in the tower and cabin speakers, not in the sub, but that may be due to the higher frequency of the noise.

They've even swapped in a new WS 420 and it's still there. It is at its worst when there is no music, between songs, or on talk channels.

Getting Frustrating, given the expense of this EQ. It is faint, but still annoying considering what all this costs. Starting to think I should've just got a $99 head unit instead.

Any other suggestions on what we should try next?

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MLA
They've even swapped in a new WS 420 and it's still there. It is at its worst when there is no music, between songs, or on talk channels.

I bet it is. Lower the source unit volume when there is not music, and i bet the unwanted noise goes away.

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kayakwv

I can understand a faint static or white noise when there are no songs playing, but the whining high pitch noise starts as soon as Bluetooth is switched on. I've tried with the iPod source unit volume lowered but same results.

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MLA

If 2 WS420BT's have been installed, then the odds are slim to none that its the EQ.

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SmoothWaterMan

It's where you are sourcing the power and ground in my opinion. Everything should to go direct battery. The only other source I've run into is bad rca cables.

Peter

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kayakwv

I'm running new dual blue top optimas. Could this brand or type battery be an issue?

All grounds and power are dedicated to one battery & All new RCA's. It is a faint whine, just not what you'd expect from audio equipment of this caliber, but I've about run out of ideas, since the faint whine still appears even when running solely on the battery. Tomorrow I think they're going to try a basic head unit or maybe a 420sq to see If they can further isolate the issue. They did call Wetsounds, but said it wasn't too much help.

Also should gains on the tower amp be less than 50%? I think that's where they are setting them.

Edited by kayakwv

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MLA
Also should gains on the tower amp be less than 50%? I think that's where they are setting them.

Its always nice when the final resting point for the gains ends u being below 50% or lower, but there is no right or wrong percentage for all setups. Hard to form any real opinion without knowing what the setup is.

It seems to be isolated to the Bluetooth on the 420

What about with the EQ still in AUX, but connected using a 3.5mm cable to the AUX port?

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Levi900RR

Pretty sure there is a DIP switch on my 420BT to combat engine noise...

From the manual:

12: Ground Isolation. Occasionally alternator whine may appear in your system if you source unit and amplifiers may have different grounds. You may use the isolation jumper to eliminate the noise. Please make sure unit is off when adjusting the jumper.

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David

If the whine is gone on another input selection and the problem is limited to BT then focus on the BT problem.

Try using the phone only on battery power, eliminating any plug-in power supply, if that's not already the case.

Try the 420SQ with an outboard BT module. First the Wetsounds BT then perhaps a JL Audio BT module.

Finally, if a hardwired connection solves the whine then ditch the BT altogether.

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kayakwv

Update: The BT seems to be the issue, so they swapped out the 420 for just a basic Samsung media player with Bluetooth and there was no noise. Then they used the 420 with a JL Bluetooth module, and it was very minimal noise, so next step is they are going to switch in a 420 SQ and use a JL Bluetooth audio module. If this solves the noise, I'll be happy, even if we never really find the exact cause. My thought is that it's the iphone to Bluetooth on the 420; might try another brand phone to see if it changes. Or, maybe that the power supply wiring needs upgraded, since I'm using a 420 instead of the stock HU., with stock wiring from a 2005 VLX.

Are there any disadvantages to using the SQ with a separate Bluetooth instead of the 420BT unit?

Edited by kayakwv

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David

The rules applied to a common audio system ground would also apply to the ground connection of the BT module.

Also, now that you have an external BT source, the switch inside the EQ could now have a small impact.

A factory Philco AM/FM mono radio was totally noise free as compared to the aftermarket replacement that picked up some high frequency noise. But the fidelity of the aftermarket replacement was far superior on a better station with more strength. And sometimes the identical equipment will have noise in one boat and not on another. But if you have narrowed down a true solution I would put the technical cause in the rearview mirror.

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MLA
Or, maybe that the power supply wiring needs upgraded, since I'm using a 420 instead of the stock HU., with stock wiring from a 2005 VLX

This points to the EQ being wired to the helm BUS, not directly to the same source as the amps.

Are there any disadvantages to using the SQ with a separate Bluetooth instead of the 420BT unit

From an audio standpoint, none at all. The 420BT makes for a clean flush mount all in one install, but you can get the flush mount plate for the SQ also. The BT-VC can be panel or surface mounted, or get the underdash mount that will house both the SQ and the BT-VC.

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kayakwv

Got the boat back from the shop yesterday. The new wetsounds 650 speakers are awesome. Never could get the 420 BT to work right, so they put in a 420 SQ with a JL Bluetooth accessory. Still get some white noise, but only get the faint high pitch whine when the BT is not connected, or someone takes their BT source out of range. I would like to totally eliminate the noise and white noise, but truthfully, I can't keep chasing it in the middle of the season, and will have to look at it again in winter. There is still some noise when no song is playing, but it's much better than the BT unit in the 420 BT, so I'll deal with it now, and I'll take it to the lake this weekend to see if all the major problems are resolved.

Now my Battery Question:

My setup: Two Blue Top Optimas, wired through a typical 1,2,OFF and ALL Perko switch. Wired in parallel with the negative terminals of both batteries connected and the positives going to the Perko.

In wiring all the stereo components, they hooked everything directly to battery 2, with a separate relay and on/off toggle switch. So apparently the good thing is that the stereo doesn't cut when the power is cut, and does not need the key to turn on and play the stereo.

But, does this mean that it has bypassed the Perko switch? I did try both battery 1 and 2, and the stereo plays on both switch positions, as well as the ALL switch. Would this mean my Perko switch is not working properly?

Edited by kayakwv

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shawndoggy

They bypassed your perko, so you will only be charging from the alternator if it's set to 2 or all. If running on 1, your stereo is just running off of the battery, like it would be if you turned the stereo on in your garage with the boat turned off.

Not really the optimal way to do it with 1-2-ALL switch. Usually stereo would be wired to the common post on the switch.

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MLA
But, does this mean that it has bypassed the Perko switch?
In wiring all the stereo components, they hooked everything directly to battery 2

In this manor, the audio has bypassed the switch, meaning that you cannot isolate the #2 from the audio loads when the boat is laid up. You are forced to run on BOTH or #2, or that battery goes dead.

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kayakwv

Shawndoggy,

Does this sound right, with my current setup:

1.With key out: Stereo is running only on Battery 2 directly.

2. With key in and Perko set to 2 or ALL, Stereo is still running on Battery 2, through the Perko switch (enabling an alternator charge).

3. When key is on, and Perko is set to 1, stereo is still running off Battery 2 directly, but unable to be charged via alternator.

4. Is my Battery 1 still being saved/ isolated for starting the boat.

I usually run all day on ALL, and then switch to one of the batteries when anchored. I can always change the wiring setup, but I probably won't fool with it until after this weekend's lake trip. Just wanted to talk through it with someone more knowledgeable about stereo/battery setup before I get out on the lake this weekend.

Thanks a lot for the response.

kayakwv

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kayakwv

MLA,

If I just keep my Perko switch setup on ALL, what are the disadvantages? Is the audio then able to draw down battery 1 as well?

Thanks,

kayakwv

Edited by kayakwv

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shawndoggy

If you usually run on all, and switch to 2 when beached/floating, it will work fine, and not run down batt 1. You could turn to 1 to run (but stereo battery won't be charging) or ALL (stereo battery will be charging).

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kayakwv

I guess my main concern after I saw the way they ran the stereo directly off Battery 2, is that there is no way to actually isolate Battery 1 for starting purposes.

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shawndoggy

you can turn to battery 1 and not turn the stereo on, right? I mean when turned to 1 the stereo is (or sounds like it is) completely isolated from the rest of the boat. When turned to 1 if you run the stereo batt dead, battery 1 should still be fine.

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David

The Perko switch was intended to be wired and used in a certain manner. I would follow the right way and get it rewired when the season is over. Everything (all audio equipment, starter/alternator feed, and helm buss) driven off the Perko common output post. This way the logic that you apply to its usage is simple. There are no more questions. Never any confusion. Never the added potential for noise based on how you select the switch. You simply select the battery you want to use which automatically leaves the other in isolation. In the same manner you select the battery(s) that you want to receive an alternator charge.

The only argument I have heard for a battery-direct scenario is when the audio system current draw is excessive. But in reality an audio system is never going to surpass 250 continuous amps, the switch rating. And larger capacity switches are available if you did have such an extreme system.

An ACR/VSR might have a different scheme so ignore those systems with your basic manual switch.

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