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DarkSide

Sharing the water

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DarkSide

I know this is a common issue, and getting worse. The problem is we have a small amount of water, and this time of year mother nature is less than cooperative. We get monsoons, so winds come up quickly and can get pretty bad. So when there is a small amount of protected area, and multiple people wanting to use it, do you have an obligation to reduce your wake?

Example i was on the lake early, found a cove had it to myself for 45 minutes, The one guy in my crew who wakeboarded took his set and we switched to surfing. As the winds come up others start to congregate in the cove. AZ law says you have to go in counter clockwise rotation. This is enforced also! So as I circle the cove area, i am basically making it impossible to wakeboard long after i have past due to my continuing rollers. I am not blocking anyone and not maliciously trashing the water, just enjoying the surf, and by the time i come back around at 11 mph it is fine again (for surfing). Do i have an obligation to drain a couple thousand pounds and make my wave mediocre?

How would you proceed? These are public lakes, and this is 11:00 so not screwing up someone's 5:00 AM glass...

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DarkSide

When the winds come up, 2~3' chop is common, even my wave is no fun in that, we jokingly refer to it as surfing double ups.

When winds are calmer i do relinquish the water. I am just fine in light chop, but when chop is causing folks in the cabin to get sprayed with every wave we hit, mrs. Darkside. Starts to get unhappy

Edited by DarkSide

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Wayne

For most sports I would say you have as much right to the water as anyone.....except you are responsible for the wave you are generating. If some poor fisherman happened along in a low freeboard skiff and didn't realize what you were doing he could be in a world of trouble trying to take a wave from your boat. Since he's in a cove it may not be possible for him to run from the wave or avoid it and get out safely.

I don't know the cove you are in but this could be a real scenario, especially if he snuck past you while changing riders.

I think we need to be as aware of our surroundings when pulling a skier/rider/surfer as other need to be. We should be even more aware since we have a person in the water that is vulnerable to other boats. We should not create a situation that puts others at risk either. Wether it be passing too close to another watercraft, a downed rider or sending a wave that could create a bad situation.

I think surfing has a negative reputation to people that are not into it. Why push a negative image further on a sport that often comes under fire for safety regarding the surfers proximity to the boat or the wave being thrown.

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oldjeep

A lake with people doing circles around it is my definition of hell. In the small bays here if there is more than one boat they just float and take turns - straight lines with keyhole turns. No idea if you can do that surfing, but the few surfers I see seem to keep to the open water and out of the bays.

Edited by oldjeep

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saidainc

We dont share the water either. If there was a drain I could reach, I would pull the plug when I was done with my set.

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martinarcher

I can't believe they have a law to run counter clockwise. All the towboats on our lake know to run parallel to shore. We can share a shoreline between 6 of us and keep the water ridable.

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DarkSide

The lake i go to primarily has an additional cove that it's very protected, and is only about 8' deep, great for wakeboarding, sucks for surfing. I only go in there when the crew wants to wakeboard. I just want to be somewhat courteous. Now when most of the lake is decent, i have no issue throwing an endless 3' roller to the shore.

As for fisherman, well we have an abundance of no wake zones. So i don't typically worry about them. Granted i don't pass 30' from them them, but even my wakeboard wake rocks them fairly hard.

Tubers get guilt free rollers.

I was mainly curious how others view water sharing.

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DarkSide

I can't believe they have a law to run counter clockwise. All the towboats on our lake know to run parallel to shore. We can share a shoreline between 6 of us and keep the water ridable.

They do this as most lakes are very small. 3000 acres, if you have people going undirected in these small spaces it gets dangerous fast!

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Bangon

Fishermen here on Norman do not get a pass as they will come out of our small cove and gun it past our dock rocking it all over. When we sit down at the end of a cove waiting for the water to settle for a good wakeboard run they think nothing of running right across your path. As for tubers still trying to get a law passed to be able to shoot the tube.

We try and surf main channel in the evenings when there is plenty of room and no docks for a few hundred feet.

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nyryan2001

I will usually handrail a shoreline to keep my surf side rollers crashing into shore vs the center of the lake. It isn't 100% wave reduction, but it makes a difference surf side vs non surf side.

Also makes it less likely for Wally Tuber to run up on your surfer because they stand like idiots while they drive looking in every direction except for the one they are heading.

Generally the same here, late morning and afternoons. I don't feel too bad about it till I see someone trying to teach a newbie wakeboard or something.... Then I'll try to avoid them.

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Afun

Well Darkside, maybe Norris in your future ehhh. You got me at the counter clockwise law. Surfing in chop sucks. Surfers deserve glass too! First come, first serve....then extend courtesy if needed to a certain extent. I only cut my day early if it gets dangerous, not because my surf session is interrupting someone's beer drinking....I guess these are small lake issues

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SkiingPT

It cracks me up how everybody trashes tubers on here while thinking surfing is perfectly fine. I would rather see 5 tubers than one surfer.

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Afun

It cracks me up how everybody trashes tubers on here while thinking surfing is perfectly fine. I would rather see 5 tubers than one surfer.

What?!

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ibelonginprison

We have a ski slew with a slalom course. My wife and I like to roll up slowly, at idle, and park in one of the coves off to the side and float and watch. I have a great respect for the slalom guys, so I won't mess up their water.

But they get blasted by lake lice and tubers. It sucks. I feel bad for them.

Now, there's one guy that has a dock towards the front that's always pissed when anyone rolls passed that has a big wake. 12mph, 20mph, 30mph on plane... just a grumpy grump that hates anything with a ballast. Him... I don't feel sorry for so much. Lol

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Technicallyabu

First come first serve imo. More important to follow established practices like running parallel to shore. Nothing pisses me off more than powerturning surfers. Not even tubers. Wont encroach on an established slalom course though.

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GreenMan

Darkside, I highly commend your interest in the effect of your activity on others in the area.

You have the same right as anyone to use it but it is certainly worth remembering that specialist surfing boats may have introduced a significantly higher magnitude impact or hazard to others, particularly those in smaller craft.

(At risk of starting armageddon:) I've used the same river area for 17 years or so and generally everyone gets on fine (discounting the ever-present issue of irresponsibly operated PWCs...). Nevertheless, it cannot be ignored that there is an increasing concern among some users of the waterway that the size of surf wakes is presenting issues for others that have never before existed on the river. I'm sure there's a different situation on lakes where the weather can generate significant waves but on a narrow river, the only waves of significance are generated by boats and they have never before existed like this. Fishermen are now genuinely concerned about being tipped out of their boats or taking a significant amount of water over the side if the timing gets a bit wrong. The ability to minimise the impact is lost when the fisher is tied up and can't manoeuvre.

Generally for me now, if I see a surfer approaching while I have someone in tow, I get the rider to let go so that I can just concentrate on getting my boat safely over the wake. Our rider is unlikely to be able to get through the wake anyway. The issue can be further complicated if one just comes around a corner and is faced with several boats in the immediate area and a surfer approaching. The options for minimisation can be limited. This river is quite narrow, has plenty of fallen trees encroaching into the water (increasing erosion has to be a contributor to the higher frequency of this) it's not practical to just turn away and simply stopping is risky unless willing to take a big one over the bow or something. On occasion I am genuinely concerned that I'm going to get a roller over the side when I get wrong-footed at low speed, broadside between rollers - I don't know if that's possible or has ever happened.

I've spoken to several kayakers and the like. I stay conscious of them and do my best to minimise my wake for them when I can. One said to me something like 'Oh, so you have one of those Malibus". When I explained that it's a ski boat, not a surf boat they were perfectly happy saying skiers don't bother them much at all and they've lived with them for decades anyway but they aren't that delighted with the waves the surf boats are presenting. A new dynamic has been introduced.

Surf boats have every right to exist and operate in unrestricted areas. They're here to stay. Their introduction has resulted in a step change in the effect that one boat can have on others. (Sorry, I need to remember that I'm largely talking about the river I use where there are no boats larger than Wakesetters and the like - we don't see any big cruisers etc. Just the odd pontoon boat wandering along.) Generally, those most affected by the larger waves just acknowledge that everyone has the same right to be there but I think it's fair to say that there may be a rising undercurrent of concern as the number of boats increases. Last season I started hearing several tales from others who had frights or some unpleasant or perceived unsafe interaction with a surf boat wake. Wake boarding seemed to add just a minor additional irritation to others whereas surfing has really upped the ante.

I've seen crew on surf boats have a big old laugh at others smashing and battling through their wakes - this sort of thing doesn't do a great deal to encourage harmony. Conversely, some active interest by the likes of Darkside or catching up with someone later back at the camp with "Mate, we saw you struggling through our wake. Sorry 'bout that!" can go a long way to maintaining good will. I guess, in the end, I'm just arguing that it can be important to be aware how one's own activity can effect others and, when practical, minimise it. Conversely, "Tough luck, Sunshine. I have every right to be here" type attitude may be accurate but not helpful. In practice, that probably doesn't leave many opportunities to do anything different but maybe it's food for thought?

Just my two-bob's worth. I hope I've presented a respectful, reasoned point.

Not sure if I should retreat to the bunker for return fire... :(

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GreenMan

This is in reply to DocPhil's post #18 (I can't get the 'quote / reply' function to work?)

I go out of my way to do things like if I'm towing a tube, knee boarder, wakeboard and come up to someone about to foot or slalom on some glass, I stop and motion or tell them to take it. Invariably met with a highly appreciative acknowledgement and sometimes the favour is returned in the coming days or weeks with a smile and thumbs up. When I can, I take the opportunity to apologise to a kayaker or whatever If I've given them a rough ride for whatever reason (slaloming past is no problem) once again, always meets with appreciation and respect.

For me and in my experience, it goes a long way.

Conversely, I've come across a few astonishingly selfish boaters with no respect whatsoever for others. They don't get any in return.

Edited by GreenMan

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Kmart25

I would like to dedicate this thread to the guy surfing at the boat launch Saturday.

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DarkSide

I would like to dedicate this thread to the guy surfing at the boat launch Saturday.

Every lake seams to have the DB that likes to do the "look at me" pass right at the ramp, sending rollers right up the launch. I hope one day to get to hold a discussion with one of these folks.

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shawndoggy

Every lake seams to have the DB that likes to do the "look at me" pass right at the ramp, sending rollers right up the launch. I hope one day to get to hold a discussion with one of these folks.

nah, at my lake that's where the two blown flatbottoms will be racing. While pulling tubes of course.

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DocPhil

This is in reply to DocPhil's post #18 (I can't get the 'quote / reply' function to work?)

I go out of my way to do things like if I'm towing a tube, knee boarder, wakeboard and come up to someone about to foot or slalom on some glass, I stop and motion or tell them to take it. Invariably met with a highly appreciative acknowledgement and sometimes the favour is returned in the coming days or weeks with a smile and thumbs up. When I can, I take the opportunity to apologise to a kayaker or whatever If I've given them a rough ride for whatever reason (slaloming past is no problem) once again, always meets with appreciation and respect.

For me and in my experience, it goes a long way.

Conversely, I've come across a few astonishingly selfish boaters with no respect whatsoever for others. They don't get any in return.

Yeah maybe I'm a butthole but I will NEVER drop my rider to protect someone elses "glass". If you want more glass, get out earlier in the day.

I love comments about people nearly getting "flipped" over by these astonishing surf waves. I've never seen a surf roller flip someone or swamp someone and probably never will. Is it uncomfortable for a minute to take a roller? Sure. Is there a potential to take on a bit of water? Maybe. However, so is taking a roller from a huge I/O. It is part of boating.

My number one priority is the safety of my crew, riders, myself and other boaters.

My advice is for everyone to get their man cards out and be safe. If it is not dangerous and everyone is following the law....get over it...

Edited by DocPhil

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