Towing Capability

[isellacuras]

Tested out my 2003 Tahoe with 5.3L this week. 3 trips to the dump with concrete and two with sod and fill dirt. I had a heavy duty dump trailer FULL. The dump weighs on the way in and out. Most loads were around 19,500# and a couple over 20000# with truck and trailer full. Dump loads were 8500-9000#. Trailer prolly weighs in at 3500# so I was towing in the 12000# range In my poor 7500# rated rig. All that and no trailer brakes!! It was a little sketchy but I didn't have real far to go and kept my speeds waaaaay down. Anything over about 40 and she started to wag. I don't recommend trying that.

[oldjeep]

Tested out my 2003 Tahoe with 5.3L this week. 3 trips to the dump with concrete and two with sod and fill dirt. I had a heavy duty dump trailer FULL. The dump weighs on the way in and out. Most loads were around 19,500# and a couple over 20000# with truck and trailer full. Dump loads were 8500-9000#. Trailer prolly weighs in at 3500# so I was towing in the 12000# range In my poor 7500# rated rig. All that and no trailer brakes!! It was a little sketchy but I didn't have real far to go and kept my speeds waaaaay down. Anything over about 40 and she started to wag. I don't recommend trying that.

I can hear the transmission exploding from here

[isellacuras]

I can hear the transmission exploding from here

No way. I used the tow/haul button on the shifter.

[mainekneeboarder]

With all the talk on this site about vehicle weight ratings it makes me wonder if maybe some are relying on that info a bit too much? Is there actually a law based on the GVWR sticker? I know typically around here it more relies on if the vehicle is being used for commercial use, then it has to be registered as commercial if its over 10,000lb, but very rarely do you hear anything about the GVWR sticker. Most manuals I have read typically word it as "weight recommendations" or "guidelines"? A friend of mine and I talk about this often because he has a CDL license and typically trys to go by the book on towing/carrying stuff while playing on the weekends, as to not cause any issues with his license.

I have read my manual alot, and maybe things have changed on how they do it, but its pretty clear (IMO!!) to see back in 97-99era they were more concerned about warranting type stuff with the GVWRs then they were about safety! It never says anything about brakes, tires, or dual rear wheels, and in some instances a 2500 has a higher tow rating then a 3500.

Rite from my owners manual from 1997,

C-2500 With 7.4L (auto) 4.10 gear Max trailer Wt. 11,000lbs

C-3500 With 7.4L (auto) 4.10 gear Max trailer Wt 10,500lbs, go to a 4.56 gear, 12,500lbs.

K-3500 With 7.4L (auto) 4.10 gear Max trailer Wt 10,000lbs, go to a 4.56 gear, 12,000lbs.

And the funny one to me because everyone recommends a diesel.

K-3500 With 6.5L diesel 4.10 gear Max trailer Wt. 7,500

So in 1997 a 7.4gas, two wheel drive 3/4 ton truck can have a higher weight rating then a 6.5diesel 4x4 1 ton truck by 3,500lbs!! Thats alot! I realize a 1 ton diesel 4x4 truck is going to weigh more then a 3/4 ton 2 wheel drive truck, and thats where some of difference in numbers come from, but 3,500lbs lighter, and the one ton will have bigger brakes, and they never say anything about dual rear wheel trucks, (the manual came out of a dually truck) how much focus are they putting on safety?! Now the one that really gets me is the GVWR sticker on my 1999 Classic K1500, 5.7, 3.73, ex cab, 4x4. The GVWR is 6400lbs,when I weighed it with me in it and partial gas it weighs just under 5700, add my sport ATV in the back that weighs 480lbs, =6180lbs, add another person to the truck weighing 200lbs, =6380, that doesn't leave much room for gear/gas/tools? what would happen if I owned a 4x4 wheeler? Are we paying too much attention to these numbers? While I wouldn't tell some one they are ok to haul way over the trucks weight limit, there are alot on here that will jump on someone for hauling their boat with a half ton truck because the sticker says its unsafe?!!

So I have added alot more power and cooling aids to my 3500 truck then I have brakes, am I safe to haul more then the factory rating because I have more power? I added very little power to my 1500 but did alot with the brakes, added air bags, run 10ply tires. Going on what trend I see from the GM numbers I shouldn't haul anymore with the 1500 because I didn't add power? Obviously I am being sarcastic here, but do you see where I'm headed?

While I know there are some that will argue this to death because its the manufactures numbers, and some will throw out the "I wouldn't want to get in an accident being over the sticker", (I'm over the GVWR on my 1500 50% of the time I drive it, and I bet alot of others are also) But do these numbers really mean all that much? looking at my 1997 book, you will have to argue hard to convince me. I mean come on, a 3/4 ton gas having a higher tow rating then a 1 ton diesel? If you had both sitting in your driveway which one would you hook to a 10,000lb trailer?

[oldjeep]

So in 1997 a 7.4gas, two wheel drive 3/4 ton truck can have a higher weight rating then a 6.5diesel 4x4 1 ton truck by 3,500lbs!!

Easy answer to that one - the 6.5 is, was and always will be a turd

[mainekneeboarder]

Agreed!!

[Falko]

Yeah, the lower weight rating for the 6.5 was so the tow truck didn't have to pull too much...

[RyanB]

Tested out my 2003 Tahoe with 5.3L this week. 3 trips to the dump with concrete and two with sod and fill dirt. I had a heavy duty dump trailer FULL. The dump weighs on the way in and out. Most loads were around 19,500# and a couple over 20000# with truck and trailer full. Dump loads were 8500-9000#. Trailer prolly weighs in at 3500# so I was towing in the 12000# range In my poor 7500# rated rig. All that and no trailer brakes!! It was a little sketchy but I didn't have real far to go and kept my speeds waaaaay down. Anything over about 40 and she started to wag. I don't recommend trying that.

Not trying to be the weight police, but that is an awful lot of weight for that rig. I have an 03 Suburban, upgraded the receiver so I would be more comfortable towing my 23LSV. The OEM hitch on that generation Burb/Tahoe is only rated for 5000 pounds.....

[MadMan]

So in 1997 a 7.4gas, two wheel drive 3/4 ton truck can have a higher weight rating then a 6.5diesel

My '95 RAM is similar but for a different reason. The gas burner is rated to pull more than the Cummins diesel. They were limited by the total weight of the truck + trailer. Since the diesel engine weighs a couple hundred pounds more, it's tow capacity is reduced by the same couple hundred pounds.

[jk13]

Phone call today at work:

Customer: "Hey, you guys put some AirLift bags in my new Ram 1500 a few weeks ago, how much pressure can they hold?"

Me: "35 psi."

C: "Yeah, that's what the manual you gave me said but how much can they take? I've got 50 in them now and it still sags."

"35."

C: " But it still sags with the trailer."

"How much does the trailer weigh?"

C: "8900lbs."

"Are you using weight distribution"

C: "No, but I've heard that I should."

"That's why you have sag--you're overloading the truck."

C: "But it should be fine right?"

"Truck is rated at 5000 without WD."

C: "I only need to do this a couple times a year."

pause...

C: "Should be fine, right?"

"Look, I'm not going to tell you what you can and can't do with your truck but there is not a 1/2 ton truck on the market that is recommended to pull that load without WD."

C: "The dealership told me it would do it."

"Without WD?"

C: pause..."What if I kept it under 50 mph?"

"8900 is more than 5000. Speed or distance doesn't change that."

C: "So what should I do?"

"Get a WD hitch or use a different truck."

C: "I have a diesel, but it's tied up at the moment."

pause...silent facepalm...

C: "Probably be okay though, huh?"

"Not going to say anything more. You have the numbers. Your call."

I swear it was almost like he was recording the call. Hate people like that who just keep asking and asking waiting for me to change the answer.

[isellacuras]

Not trying to be the weight police, but that is an awful lot of weight for that rig. I have an 03 Suburban, upgraded the receiver so I would be more comfortable towing my 23LSV. The OEM hitch on that generation Burb/Tahoe is only rated for 5000 pounds.....

There is nooooo doubt about it. It was unsafe for so many different reasons. I do not recommend it. Would I do it again? Probably, in the same circumstances. Flat, short distance and low speed roads. I didn't even check to verify the tow ratings prior to towing the dump trailer so I wouldn't to now how grossly overweight I was going to be. The Tahoe does just fine towing my VLX, even in the hills.

[justgary]

Yeah, Ryan, I understand what a WDH does. What I do not understand is how the weight of the boat is still not all focused on that one point on the vehicle (regardless of whether the tow rig/trailer interface is kept rigid with the WDH). I mean there are no other contact points between the trailer and the tow rig besides the receiver. If I slam on the brakes, the only thing stopping the trailer from driving through the back of the truck is that mechanical point of contact.

I was just reading through this thread and noticed that nobody actually answered the question you were asking.

Yes, all of the force generated when you stop or hit bumps goes through the drawbar and into the truck frame. The thing you are struggling with is the yield strength of the steel in the hitch.

Cheap steel can easily have a yield strength of 60,000 pounds per square inch, and decent alloys commonly exceed 100,000 PSI. You can see how it doesn't take very much steel to survive anything you can throw at the hitch. That's why these discussions normally ignore the strength of the hitch itself and focus on handling, braking, and loss of control through improper distribution of weight.

Is that what you were asking?

P.S. I always question the strength of the pin that holds the drawbar in a hitch. Even if you have a 5/8" pin, you only have 0.3 square inches of area to shear through. Worst case, you might be talking about under 20,000 pounds to shear the pin. That's not a lot of margin for a heavy dynamic load, so it makes sense to use a good quality alloy pin if you are towing anything but a little utility trailer.

[Soon2BV]

P.S. I always question the strength of the pin that holds the drawbar in a hitch. Even if you have a 5/8" pin, you only have 0.3 square inches of area to shear through. Worst case, you might be talking about under 20,000 pounds to shear the pin. That's not a lot of margin for a heavy dynamic load, so it makes sense to use a good quality alloy pin if you are towing anything but a little utility trailer.

that is why i buy a new pin every year or 2. every start and stop that pin takes a hit.

[Michigan boarder]

Phone call today at work:

Customer: "Hey, you guys put some AirLift bags in my new Ram 1500 a few weeks ago, how much pressure can they hold?"

Me: "35 psi."

C: "Yeah, that's what the manual you gave me said but how much can they take? I've got 50 in them now and it still sags."

"35."

C: " But it still sags with the trailer."

"How much does the trailer weigh?"

C: "8900lbs."

"Are you using weight distribution"

C: "No, but I've heard that I should."

"That's why you have sag--you're overloading the truck."

C: "But it should be fine right?"

"Truck is rated at 5000 without WD."

C: "I only need to do this a couple times a year."

pause...

C: "Should be fine, right?"

"Look, I'm not going to tell you what you can and can't do with your truck but there is not a 1/2 ton truck on the market that is recommended to pull that load without WD."

C: "The dealership told me it would do it."

"Without WD?"

C: pause..."What if I kept it under 50 mph?"

"8900 is more than 5000. Speed or distance doesn't change that."

C: "So what should I do?"

"Get a WD hitch or use a different truck."

C: "I have a diesel, but it's tied up at the moment."

pause...silent facepalm...

C: "Probably be okay though, huh?"

"Not going to say anything more. You have the numbers. Your call."

I swear it was almost like he was recording the call. Hate people like that who just keep asking and asking waiting for me to change the answer.

This made me really appreciate my job -- even while sitting here waiting for floor wax to dry at 10:30 on bar night. That was really funny to read.

[MadMan]

Worst case, you might be talking about under 20,000 pounds to shear the pin.

You'd be shearing the pin twice at the same time so it would be 20k x 2 = 40k.

[oldjeep]

that is why i buy a new pin every year or 2. every start and stop that pin takes a hit.

It really shouldn't take much of a hit unless your hitch, drawbar or pin has slop in it. Decent setup should fit tight in everything.

[Falko]

If you are worried about that pin, your brake caliper bolts should keep you up at night.

[Bill_AirJunky]

Has anyone ever seen a pin sheer or break?

[oldjeep]

Has anyone ever seen a pin sheer or break?

Nope, and we regularly stick a tow strap inside a 2" receiver, pin it and then take a running start to yank people out. Never even seen one bend.

[Malibuzer]

I have not. Seems like it may be a rare occurence.

[justgary]

You'd be shearing the pin twice at the same time so it would be 20k x 2 = 40k.

That's why I said, "worst case." It's conceivable that the hitch or drawbar could have a slight offset in the holes, and one side of the pin would begin to shear first. Anyway, I have never seen one shear either. I mainly brought it up to remind myself why I shouldn't make them out of cold-rolled steel for any applications that actually need strength.

[justgary]

If you are worried about that pin, your brake caliper bolts should keep you up at night.

Funny you should mention that, I had one fall out one day because it wasn't torqued enough. Heard a clunk and clang as it hit the underbody, then things weren't right when I applied the brakes about a half mile later. I pulled over, walked back to where I heard the noise, and there it was, sitting in the roadway. I was close to a friend's house, so he brought me a wrench to put it back in. I was back on the road within 30 minutes of the initial problem.

In just that one braking, the caliper chewed the inside of the aluminum rim about a quarter inch or so.

[justgary]

Nope, and we regularly stick a tow strap inside a 2" receiver, pin it and then take a running start to yank people out. Never even seen one bend.

A tow strap is really stretchy, so the maximum force applied to the hitch is not near as great as something directly coupled. If you really want to see stuff break, use a chain to snatch things.

[Falko]

Brake caliper bolt falling out?? Wow, that's something to scare you.

[nyryan2001]

If you are worried about that pin, your brake caliper bolts should keep you up at night.

Funny you say that... I DIY replaced my Tundra rotars with slotted performance rotars.... And over the last month my truck developed a click in tight steering and sometimes on the first decent brake of a drive.

Tracked it down... Loose caliper bolt. Cranked it tight with a 1/2" drive 12" ratchet, issue solved and click is gone.

If you develop a click in tight stationary steering... Or sometimes during braking... Check your caliper bolts.