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Soon2BV

Towing Capability

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Soon2BV

So the other threads on trucks and boats and towing have a lot of info in them, but it is mixed around.

I did some basic looks at towing ratings and hitch ratings for a few trucks - F150 and GMC Sierra 1500.

These seem to be common and popular choices on here. Sierra and Silverado ratings are the same.

F150 - SuperCrew, 5.0L, 3.73, = 9,300 pounds rating.

F150 - SuperCrew, 6.2L, 3.73, = 11,000 pounds rating.

Sierra 1500 - Crew Cab, 5.3L, 3.73, = 10,800 pounds rating.

Sierra 1500 - Crew Cab, 6.2L, 3.42, = 11,700 pounds rating.

Those ratings are the trailer and cargo / people in the truck, not including the truck and 150 pound driver.

So with a 5,000 pound boat (from the info section on this site), 2,000 pounds trailer and 1,000 pounds of stuff in the boat, total is 8,000 pounds on the hitch. (This is a guesstimate). That leaves between 1300 and 3700 pounds of "other", depending on which truck you choose. The "other" would be people in the truck gear in the bed, etc.

Looking at e-trailer

The highest rated hitch for an F150 - weight carrying - is 900 pound tongue and 6000 pound total weight.

That says you cannot pull the boat and trailer listed above in a weight carrying configuration.

The highest rated hitch for the GMC-1500 - weight carrying - is 1000 pound tongue and 10.000 pound total weight.

That says you can pull the boat above in a weight carrying configuration.

For the Ford option, you have to go to an F250 to get a hitch that is rated at 1000 pound tongue and 10,000 total weight.
(I did not check the truck ratings on the Ford site.)

Since the hitches are common, my ASSUMPTION is that there is a difference in the frame on these trucks that is driving the hitch ratings. Since these all bolt to the frame and are made for "no drilling", the weight rating becomes limited by the strength of that hitch to frame connection.

So my assumed conclusion is that the F150 frame is lighter (makes sense if lighter truck) so it more limited on weight on the hitch. To pull what you want with a Ford, you have to go to the F250. If you go with GMC/Chevy, the 1500 has the ratings to cover what you want to do.

NOTE: Even though my personal choice is GMC/Chevy (I get employee pricing), i tried to just look at the data from the Ford / GMC sites and used e-Trailer as a guide. Based on what i can find, the Ford and GMC ratings for 2015 are compliant to the new SAE standards.

All of this based on some quick research and engineering assumptions on my part - open to discussion!

Edited by Soon2BV

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saidainc

Im confused. Can you summarize what you are saying? Something about the F150 being overrated?

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Soon2BV

to summarize that, based on the published ratings i found, i could not pull my 21' LSV with an F150.

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IXFE

Oh boy... here we go again.

And not even in the right forum.

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Stevo

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oldjeep

Much as I'm not an f150 fan, I wouldn't assume that since there is no class 5 available for a 2015 that one will never be available.

And for grins. 2015 Ram 1500 the biggest hitch on etrailer beats the chev;)

Towing Capacity:

1500 Pound Tongue Weight

15000 Pound Towing

Weight Distribution Towing Capacity:

1600 lbs WD TW Pound Tongue Weight

16000 lbs WD GTW Pound Towing

Edited by oldjeep

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shawndoggy

can an engineer 'splain to me the significance of a weight distributing hitch? The fact that the towed load can be greater with a weight distributing hitch suggests to me that the issue is not the receiver itself, but rather the truck's suspension, right? I mean even with the WDH, all of the weight of the trailer is eventually focused on its point of connection to the truck (the receiver) right?

(from a curious non-engineer)

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oldjeep

The short answer is that it transfers weight to the front of the vehicle by limiting the hinge action at the ball. You could beef up the rear suspension all you want, but you need weight on the front for steering/braking once the load on the tongue gets high enough.

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Sixball

Just pulled a Kubota B 2950 with loaded tires front bucket, and back hoe, and 6' snow blower all on a tandem axel flat bed trailer. I think it would weigh in somewhere like 8 to 8,500 hundred pounds. 2015 Expedition Eco. It was amazing the SUV did not even grunt a bit. In the trailer tow package you can monitor Trans oil temp and oil temp among other things. I watched the trans mostly and it never increased more then 3 deg F even on the hills from going down empty and running back with the load. I only used the factory hitch.

With that said if I was pulling long distance or on a regular bases with large loads I would use the weight distributing hitch. If you have ever used one it makes a tremendous difference adding a ton of safety in wet or slippery road conditions. Also if you would ever need to make a evasive move to account for any emergency condition! But now that never happens. :whistle:

Edited by Sixball

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Bawshogg

Trans only ran 100 degrees? I think you meant 200 right?

If it only ran 100 F something would have to be wrong. That trans has a thermostatic bypass valve that only allows cooler flow above 170-180 degrees. It there to make sure the trans warms up quick to improve fuel mileage.

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IXFE

Trans only ran 100 degrees? I think you meant 200 right?

If it only ran 100 F something would have to be wrong. That trans has a thermostatic bypass valve that only allows cooler flow above 170-180 degrees. It there to make sure the trans warms up quick to improve fuel mileage.

I think he meant that it only increased 100 degrees from whatever the baseline is. If that's the case, it's very bad... 250 degrees or so (assuming aprox 150 is what the Trans runs when truck is empty).

On my Denali (with factory Trans cooler) we used to see 235 pulling the boat over Siskyou Pass... it always freaked me out.

I'm making that trip tomorrow with the F150 EcoBoost... anxious to see how hot the tranny gets.

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joshuadale07

If your worried about it get a 3/4 ton with a gas engine. All this debate over tow vehicles and which one is better is nonsense to me. Tow ratings are manufacturers recommendation. Take into the account the high factor if safety the engineers are required to use. When i was in school for engineering most of what we designed had to have a factor of safety of 2.0 or better. Meaning if we are building a bridge, we have to design it to hold at least twice the weight that it could ever possibly see at once. I don't think overloading a hitch by a couple hundred lbs is going to cause problems, but like I started the post with, they make bigger trucks with increased tow ratings for a reason.

Load up the truck and boat and go over the scales at a truck stop and you can see exactly where your at, per axle. Then look inside your door and see what the gawr (gross axle weight rating) is. If your severely overloaded, consider a larger truck. If your not, just keep an eye on a the tranny temps as running a tranny hot will hurt it quick

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Soon2BV

OK, my intent was not to cause another GM v Ford debate, just summarize some of the details i found. I only looked at e-trailer, thinking they would have most options covered, but that was a wrong assumption. Bottom line is it looks like the F150 or the GM 1500 series trucks will meet the needs if you get the right engine / rear axle.

The SAE standard for rating is not just a measure of the strength of the hitch or the power of the engine. It is a specific, dedicated test procedure to compare total truck performance towing a specific trailer with a specific weight and tongue weight. Everyone does it the same, so comparing performance of A:B:C gives you an even comparison. If you read the test conditions, it is conditions most of us will never see, and it includes a long incline drive with no overheating, start from standstill on flat and a 12% grade, braking and other tests. See some detail here. http://www.trucktrend.com/features/towing/1502-sae-j2807-tow-tests-the-standard/

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Soon2BV

Here is a pretty good write up on Weight Distribution. Basically it helps transfer the tongue weight of the trailer to the front axle of the tow vehicle and to the axles of the towed vehicles. It levels the truck / trailer combination and improves performance and safety.

http://www.etrailer.com/faq-weightdistribution.aspx

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nyryan2001

can an engineer 'splain to me the significance of a weight distributing hitch? The fact that the towed load can be greater with a weight distributing hitch suggests to me that the issue is not the receiver itself, but rather the truck's suspension, right? I mean even with the WDH, all of the weight of the trailer is eventually focused on its point of connection to the truck (the receiver) right?

(from a curious non-engineer)

Shawn, real simple.

WHD, like a 5th wheel, puts approx 40%(or should) of the tongue weight onto the front wheels.

You can have a class 1000 receiver rated for 50k. If you are not towing in a WDH config with torsion bars, you are stuck at WEIGHT CARRYING capacities. Roughly 5k for most 1/2tons and up to 8k for some 3/4tons.

Yes, central point still is the hitch and receiver... But the key aspect is the transfer of weight to the FRONT WHEELS--- only two ways- 5th wheel or WDH with torsion bars can do it. That's what gets you those higher tow ratings.

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Sixball

Yeper I meant to say from 200 going down and got to 203 on the way back. Stayed at 201 most of the time 203 on a big hill.

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MadMan

like a 5th wheel, puts approx 40%(or should) of the tongue weight onto the front wheels.

Seems like it would be pretty difficult to mount a 5th wheel hitch far enough forward in the bed to get 40% of the tongue weight on the front wheels. Hadn't seen one installed this way, they are usually pretty much centered over the rear axle, or an 1 inch or 2 forward.

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shawndoggy

Shawn, real simple.

WHD, like a 5th wheel, puts approx 40%(or should) of the tongue weight onto the front wheels.

You can have a class 1000 receiver rated for 50k. If you are not towing in a WDH config with torsion bars, you are stuck at WEIGHT CARRYING capacities. Roughly 5k for most 1/2tons and up to 8k for some 3/4tons.

Yes, central point still is the hitch and receiver... But the key aspect is the transfer of weight to the FRONT WHEELS--- only two ways- 5th wheel or WDH with torsion bars can do it. That's what gets you those higher tow ratings.

Yeah, Ryan, I understand what a WDH does. What I do not understand is how the weight of the boat is still not all focused on that one point on the vehicle (regardless of whether the tow rig/trailer interface is kept rigid with the WDH). I mean there are no other contact points between the trailer and the tow rig besides the receiver. If I slam on the brakes, the only thing stopping the trailer from driving through the back of the truck is that mechanical point of contact.

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nyryan2001

I think folks need to understand that max tow ratings are one of about 4? Areas that have tow ratings. And your final resulting tow rating is the LOWEST of any of the 4.

Tow vehicle capacity- weight carrying config, not Max WDH/5th Wheel ratings

Hitch Receiver capacity

Ball and ballmount capacity

Trailer capacity- frame/axels and tires

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jrvs23

Ok, my question should fall into where this topic has led. My tow vehicle a Toyota Highlander (que gasp) sags a couple inches when hooked up. I've compensetated with an adjustable hitch that raises the trailer to level behind the vehicle. I haven't experienced steering or braking issues with it like this, but my rear brake pads are wearing quicker than the front(coincidence?). I was planning on beefing up the rear shocks this winter. Should I really be looking at a WDH system?

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Pnwrider

Ok, my question should fall into where this topic has led. My tow vehicle a Toyota Highlander (que gasp) sags a couple inches when hooked up. I've compensetated with an adjustable hitch that raises the trailer to level behind the vehicle. I haven't experienced steering or braking issues with it like this, but my rear brake pads are wearing quicker than the front(coincidence?). I was planning on beefing up the rear shocks this winter. Should I really be looking at a WDH system?

No offense, but my wife has a '15 highlander and I don't even want to tow my 18' lund with it. I'm guessing you have a very short and infrequent tow?

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