Who's responsible for sinking my boat?

[Eddy88]

As many have said, OP's fault in my opinion. How do you not check on it for 2 years, never mind water, what about dirt, rodents, bugs, etc., I would have been checking on it every time you were at the lake house.

I know your kicking yourself, but come on, can't put this on the dealer. Maybe if it happened in the first winter.

Good luck none the less, crappy to be without a boat now that you guys actually have water.

[malibu2004]

Many people have the (arguably unreasonable) expectation that if they spend as much or more on a boat as they did on their fully loaded 2015 crew cab diesel truck that the dealers and repair experiences of each should be the same. Fancy truck has an issue, you drop it off at dealer and well trained tech takes care of it in a day or two max. Fancy boat has an issue experience should be the same, right?

Problem being... it just don't work that way in the real world at most dealers. First issue is time... car dealers have a steady flow of repair work, whereas boat dealers have significant dead time, bookended by insanely busy periods. So there's an issue of training (whether your boat repair guy has any/enough), and an issue of capacity (can your dealer possibly get you in within a reasonable time frame). I've gotta think all dealers sacrifice training/experience for capacity, especially for the repetitive work (winterization/"summerization" -- whatever that means/oil changes).

We, the enthusiasts, know this, and plan our dealer visits accordingly (and try to do what we can ourselves). But do Joe and Sally Wally know that? They just want to pull tubes and drink pinot grigio with friends on their G. On the sales end, no dealer is going to tell a new boat buyer "hey, the service experience may suck and it's definitely not going to be what you'd expect if you just bought a $100k car."

Maybe I'm just jaded because I live in a small city with a short season where the water is an hour away minimum and even getting an issue water tested can take weeks on weeks.

I totally agree with you. I just think you people need to educate them self. Nobody cares more about your boat than you.

[Bill_AirJunky]

^^^ this makes no sense...my point is there are owners out there that don't want to know how this stuff works. They could care less, pay $80k for a boat and just want to use it and rely on there dealer to take care of the maintenance correctly.

They don't know how a drain plug works? We're not talking about rebuilding the engine here. All they need to know is how to open the cover & check the drain. Or just LOOK at the transom plug?!

[Stick]

As others have said, Texas got LOTS of rain in May. More in May than all of last year I believe. Hopefully this means it wasn't full of water long. For the last 9 months I've been working a job and living 4 hours away from the lakehouse & boat so I've only got there ~ 1/month so it's not like it's in my driveway at home and I walk past it everyday. As I stated, I've always done my own boat maintenance, but knowing we were in a potential long drought, I figured I'd take it to the experts. There's no doubt I could have looked under the ski deck at any point, realized the plug was in (even though the paperwork said it was out), taken the plug out, and not been having this discussion.

I spoke with my insurance rep and he feels like I've got a good claim. The next step is to see what all is damaged and get an adjuster to take a look at it and the pics I took when I took the cover off.

Early results from the dealership is that the batteries are gone, the starter and alternator check out (for now), no water in the oil, and the fuel pump is dead (not to mention horrible mold). I'm concerned about what all I may find once it's repaired and I've taken it out a few times. Someone here mentioned steering cable, that's possibly a good example of other things that may pop up. Any other ideas on little things to look for?

What's the lifespan of Optima Redtop batteries?

Thanks for the well wishes of good luck from some of you. My family does look forward to being able to use the boat & lakehouse for the first time in years.

[Jimmypooh]

If the state of the drain plug (in or out) is important enough for the dealer to stamp it on the invoice in bold red letters, then the dealer knows people don't check it themselves and it can cause major problems. Therefore the dealer is responsible that the state of the drain plug matches the paperwork and the customer is responsible for treating the boat accordingly.

While the dealer seems at fault, it's wishful thinking that they will be willing to pay for it and/or forced to. Burden of proof that they left the plug in seems near impossible (although as someone mentioned above, documented hours might help). I personally don't think you've done anything wrong (including leaving the boat untouched for 2 years). I look at my assets/toys on a regular bases, but I don't think you are at fault for leaving them either.

To the OP - This site is the top of the OCD curve when it comes to their boats, so it's not surprising that many here are blowing a gasket when you say you didn't look at it in 2 years. However, I'll bet the general public has a little more leniency on the owner. I have several friends that have had summers where their boats didn't get out of storage for one reason or another. I feel for you as I'm sure this entire situation leaves a pretty big pit in your stomach. Take a deep breath, make some calm phone calls and with any luck you will be on the way to recovery.

To the community - I understand your deep devotion to your boat and the responsibility you feel toward it. I feel the same way. However, lets all try to be a little nicer to a guy we know is having a rough day. There is no need to repeatedly tell him he's a bad owner because he doesn't kiss and softly caress his boat each night before he goes to bed.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Jimmypooh

[beanboy]

I'll raise my hand on this one and fess up. I did the exact same thing/had the exact same thing happen to me this spring.

We are on Richland Chambers near Corsicana, TX and had an independent guy 'winterize' our Moomba 21 LSV 2.5 years ago. The boat was left in the slip completely covered and raised as high as it could be raised throughout the duration of this drought we have been in.

When we took the cover off after the long hiberation, water was everywhere. Seats, carpet, fuel pump, starter, hoses, ballast pumps, etc all gone. The guy had left the plug in when he winterized it. It was so bad that when I saw it I didn't even bother trying to salvage any of our old stuff out of it because mold was everywhere.

We sold it for 40% of its value to a location shop and just cut our losses. We didn't want to throw anymore money at it.

From now on we're going to be storing our boat indoors during the winter in an enclosed storage facility.

Good luck,

Parker

[Fman]

Many people have the (arguably unreasonable) expectation that if they spend as much or more on a boat as they did on their fully loaded 2015 crew cab diesel truck that the dealers and repair experiences of each should be the same. Fancy truck has an issue, you drop it off at dealer and well trained tech takes care of it in a day or two max. Fancy boat has an issue experience should be the same, right?

Problem being... it just don't work that way in the real world at most dealers. First issue is time... car dealers have a steady flow of repair work, whereas boat dealers have significant dead time, bookended by insanely busy periods. So there's an issue of training (whether your boat repair guy has any/enough), and an issue of capacity (can your dealer possibly get you in within a reasonable time frame). I've gotta think all dealers sacrifice training/experience for capacity, especially for the repetitive work (winterization/"summerization" -- whatever that means/oil changes).

We, the enthusiasts, know this, and plan our dealer visits accordingly (and try to do what we can ourselves). But do Joe and Sally Wally know that? They just want to pull tubes and drink pinot grigio with friends on their G. On the sales end, no dealer is going to tell a new boat buyer "hey, the service experience may suck and it's definitely not going to be what you'd expect if you just bought a $100k car."

Maybe I'm just jaded because I live in a small city with a short season where the water is an hour away minimum and even getting an issue water tested can take weeks on weeks.

Zactly, we are the large minority on here. Even the owner who bought my 2011 vlx knows nothing about boats. He took it to local dealer for any issues and winterization. If the work order said drain plug installed, oil changed, winterization complete he would just assume it was taken care of. He would not recheck the oil, filter, run on a fake lake, make sure knock sensor drain plugs are back in, look at all the cooling hoses for proper connections, etc.... He is that guy who just wants to launch his boat and use it and pay a high premium for service.

Btw, when I took delivery of my current vlx, guess what was in the glove box? My drain plug! Glad I double checked that...

Edited June 11, 2015 by Fman

[oldjeep]

What's the lifespan of Optima Redtop batteries?

Same as any other battery - 4-6 years (assuming they are kept charged)

Warranty is only 36 months if you put it in a car/truck and 0 months if you put it in a boat

Bluetop is what you are supposed to use in a boat which would be 12-24 months depending on starting/deep cycle and what kind of maintainer you use if deep cycle.

Edited June 11, 2015 by oldjeep

[electricjohn]

What brand cover did you have?

Note to self...Do not buy a ________ cover.

[ibelonginprison]

I had my cover propped up in the wrong spot and funnel the water down around the tower during two rain storms (over the winter when I had it home to wrench on it some,) and I noticed it right before the third and corrected it.

I pulled the boat to let the water drain.
It pee'd out about 5 gallons, and I didn't even have the plug in it. It doesn't take much rain to start to fill that sucker up.

I don't think I could just leave mine sitting outside unattended in nature for longer than a week or so. It's definitely always going to have an indoor home for any period of inactivity. lol

[MotoGPTy]

Playing devil's advocate but who would be responsible if the owner paid the dealer to store the boat for 2 years? Some dealers keep boats in uncovered/partially covered areas. Would the OP be at fault because he hadn't checked in on the boat?

[oldjeep]

Playing devil's advocate but who would be responsible if the owner paid the dealer to store the boat for 2 years? Some dealers keep boats in uncovered/partially covered areas. Would the OP be at fault because he hadn't checked in on the boat?

Would a dealer accept a boat for long term outdoor storage without it being shrink wrapped?

[paulclarkusa]

Don't do anything to your boat! . Don't wash it, don't spray it with wd40 nothing.!!! Take pictures, call your insurance company and go take with the service manager at the dealership. . Although a serious oversight on your part the dealership has a very large role to play in this. . Get your poop in a group before you start working on a problem, this is going to get way more expensive than you think.

FYI - I worked as a tech for 5 years, I have seen similar situations.

Be cautious and deliberate on how you proceed.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[MotoGPTy]

Would a dealer accept a boat for long term outdoor storage without it being shrink wrapped?

I certainly wouldn't advise it but I'm assuming there are dealers that'll keep a boat as long as the account is paid. My point is that if the boat never left the lot would it be on the dealer in this situation? Just trying to understand how some folks could say this could be 100% the OPs fault if he thought it was prepped to lay up on a trailer for a while. I agree that freak things can happen like a clog or whatnot but boats can be safely stored under a cover for extended time, right?

[Bill_AirJunky]

I certainly wouldn't advise it but I'm assuming there are dealers that'll keep a boat as long as the account is paid. My point is that if the boat never left the lot would it be on the dealer in this situation? Just trying to understand how some folks could say this could be 100% the OPs fault if he thought it was prepped to lay up on a trailer for a while. I agree that freak things can happen like a clog or whatnot but boats can be safely stored under a cover for extended time, right?

Not sure who said this case was 100% the OP's fault. I said "I" am responsible for my boat, regardless of who does what with it. I know for a fact that dealers are humans. And they hire kids & inexperienced seasonal workers all the time. Plus they are pushing a lot of boats thru their system every spring & every fall. AND I've read in places like TMC about how dealers have screwed up people's boats.... numerous times! So for any one of those reasons, I would always do a followup walk thru just to be sure. I follow up on the kid at Jiffy Lube too..... because I have heard the horror stories about people driving away with no plug, oil, filter loose, etc. And I don't need it to happen to me too. Just seems like safe, common sense to me. That kid doesn't give a dam about my boat or truck. And I do!

Edited June 12, 2015 by Bill_AirJunky

[MotoGPTy]

Not sure who said this case was 100% the OP's fault. I said "I" am responsible for my boat, regardless of who does what with it. I know for a fact that dealers are humans. And they hire kids & inexperienced seasonal workers all the time. Plus they are pushing a lot of boats thru their system every spring & every fall. AND I've read in places like TMC about how dealers have screwed up people's boats.... numerous times! So for any one of those reasons, I would always do a followup walk thru just to be sure. I follow up on the kid at Jiffy Lube too..... because I have heard the horror stories about people driving away with no plug, oil, filter loose, etc. And I don't need it to happen to me too. Just seems like safe, common sense to me. That kid doesn't give a dam about my boat or truck. And I do!

I don't disagree about being responsible for my boat on a lift...with plugs in(I keep a webcam and a charger on mine all winter at the marina to keep an eye on it and to keep the bilge pump always working) but if the dealer said one thing and you find out in the Spring (or 2 years later) another thing that wouldn't be on you would it?

I had a dealer "winterize" my boat with a heater the first year I had my 2001 VLX and had a wet first ride in the Spring because I assumed they had done what the manual suggested. Fortunately, my lesson wasn't as expensive.

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/images/files/2012_manual.pdf

Storage and Winter Lay-up Due to the problems that can occur from improper winterization, we recommend that you take your boat to a certified Malibu dealership to perform this task. Without proper preparation, storage for long periods of time may cause parts of the engine and transmission to rust due to lack of lubrication. Also, if your boat will be stored in freezing conditions, water inside these components to include cooling system, heater and shower could result in major damage to your boat. Damage done due to improper winter storage will void your warranty.

To be completed when boat is put on trailer or resting cradle: • Remove bilge T-handle and transom drain plug immediately after removing from the water.

Edit: thought the OP had a 2012 boat for some reason so referenced a 2012 manual. Dealer should follow the above steps no matter what boat, right?

Edited June 12, 2015 by MotoGPTy

[baadls1]

I'm going to go ahead and say this is a 25/75 split on negligence, not in your favor. If the plug was out and it still rained, that does not explicitly mean your boat would have not incurred these issues. A wet boat, that stays wet, over time, plug or not is subject to these issues.

I do not agree that we should necessarily be double checking the work of a dealer. There should not be an expectation that a customer should be checking the work of what SHOULD BE an experienced professional in charge of taking care of your boat when said care comes at a documented and mutually satisfied cost.

It is not the customer's responsibility to ensure the employee is well trained to perform and document work performed. That is on the dealer.

Unfortunately, should you choose litigation with the dealer, you will not recoup your time or money coming out of the process. Alternatively, I would suggest working with your dealer wherever possible for some credit. If they are not willing to budge, I would consider your alternatives, and if one exists, then I would publicize who they are and reputation for service and willing to work with the customer. Regardless of your specific issue, bad publicity is damaging to an inboard boat dealer.

[MotoGPTy]

And here's what to do when you get it ready for the water in the Spring (even with shrink wrap)

Winterization Re-Commission

• Remove boat cover or shrink-wrap from boat.

• Remove Duct tape from exhaust flaps.

• Charge and install battery in boat. Follow all safety precautions associated with changing batteries.

• De-winterize engine using engine manufacturer’s specifications.

• Check propeller shaft alignment. Tighten coupling hardware.

• Check engine compartment for nesting animals. Clean as needed.

• Reinstall seat cushions from storage.

• Check entire engine for signs of cracks caused by freeze damage. Check all hose clamps for tightness.

• Install bilge drain plugs: transom, T-handle plug and ski locker drain plug.

• Reinstall propeller assembly.

• If not performed during winterization, perform annual maintenance at this time.

• If boat is equipped with optional fresh-water cooling, and was drained at winterization, fill at this time.

• Turn key on and off 2-3 times to allow fuel to return to engine, then start engine. When engine starts, watch gauges closely, and watch for abnormal readings.

Not sure how most dealers do this since I'm sure some ppl don't come back in the Spring. When I had mine done the first year they put all my plugs in a bag and zip tied it to the steering wheel.

[oldjeep]

And if you are in MN you damn sure don't put your plug in until you get to the ramp, unless you want a big ticket.

[Soon2BV]

And if you are in MN you damn sure don't put your plug in until you get to the ramp, unless you want a big ticket.

Can you explain this?

[jk13]

Can you explain this?

Invasive species spread prevention. Plug out to completely drain while towing.

[justgary]

So, are we even sure that the "drain plugs out" reference is talking about the boat, and not the engine? If it is the engine, this horse is a different color.

[Lance B. Johnson]

After 3 long years of drought in Texas, our lakes are finally full (some overfull). My Malibu Vdrive has always lived under it's Malibu cover on a covered boat lift at our lake. Watching the lake drop ever lower in 2013, I got my boat on it's trailer so it wouldn't be stuck on it's lift for possibly years like so many other boats at the lake hanging over grass instead of water. I've always changed my own oil and winterized myself, but knowing it may be on the trailer and not used for years, in Oct 2013 I decided to take it to my local well respected dealer to be winterized. I thought they might do a better job than me and I might learn a few things. Fast forward to 2 weeks ago and our lake is finally full, I go to the lakehouse to de-winterize the boat and drop it in the water. I pull the cover off and discover it is full of water above the floor all the way to the ski locker., 1/2 the engine is under water, both my Optima batteries are underwater, the rear speakers under the bench seat are underwater, it's bad.

Stamped in big RED ink on my workorder from the dealership it says "DRAIN PLUG OUT OF THE BOAT". I never even thought to check it, even though I walked past it every time I entered the lakehouse. Since Oct 2013, any rain that got through the cover has been filling up my boat to where it's "sank in the driveway". There's mold EVERYWHERE, worse than what you would expect because it's been covered and full of water for months if not years.

I called the dealership immediately and was told to spray the starter and alternator heavily with WD40 and they said when they winterize a boat on the trailer they put the drain plug in the parts bag or in a cup holder. I alluded to the fact I thought this was their fault in that they said the plug was out, they said that it was the boat owners responsibility to check on their own boat. I drained the boat, used the hose and a shop vac, cleaned the seats as best I could, and sprayed down everything with WD40 as suggested.

The boat is currently at the dealership where they will see what all the damage is. When dropping it off, I handed them the plug from the stern of the boat and said "this was in the boat, not out as your paperwork said." They then told me that's not the plug they leave out, they leave out the one directly in front of the engine. I would have had to remove the cover of the boat, climb in and lift the engine hatch to see if they removed that plug.

So, long story short, I'd like everyone's thoughts on this. Who's responsible, what should be done about it, who should cover the cost, how do I get the HEAVY mold off the seats? Am I supposed to check their work and make sure they did what they stamped on the report they did (drain plug is out)? Had they done an oil change am I supposed to check and see if they put oil in it, if they replace the impeller am I supposed to check and see if they put an impeller in it? My boat was in GREAT shape and it kills me to see it like this.

I look forward to hearing what y'all think.

Drain plug in or not.....you would have had mold on the seats. The amount of time that passed in those kind of conditions it was sure to happen. Most people would have gone to lengths to dehumidify and do rodent control on a 6 month basis minimum.

In my opinion this is your fault and it is time to suck it up and quit blaming the dealer.

[electricjohn]

They don't know how a drain plug works? We're not talking about rebuilding the engine here. All they need to know is how to open the cover & check the drain. Or just LOOK at the transom plug?!

Or stick your finger in the floor drain from outside.

[JoeA]

Stick---

Ok, I've followed this for a few days and have to jump in. The dealer is not going to pony pony up thousands of $$$ as you have no way to prove that you did not put the plug back in. Surely you didn't but that will never be proven. Forget the lawyers as there's no way to prove any of this.

Good news.......yes there may be good news. The only shot you have at any level of recovery is getting your insurance company to step up to the plate. How's that going? That's where I'd be looking for resolution and quickly. We're in the middle of boat season and it sounds like your lake is filling up.